Shouldn't be a problem.Rusty, I hope you will know how to do this.
Did he say if the ground should be switched? I'm guessing that in a stock application there would be a switch on the range selector that would connect to pin 16.
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Did he say if the ground should be switched? I'm guessing that in a stock application there would be a switch on the range selector that would connect to pin 16.
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- #2,902
rusty_tlc said:
Nope! He said all it needed was a wire to ground. That's it.
I'm with Rusty on this one. Just grounding the wire doesn't make sense. You aren't running around in low range all the time, so why would you want the ECU to think you are? I guess I'm not seeing the purpose behind "grounding" pin 16 on a full time basis.
Jack
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- #2,904
I have NO IDEA what happens with those wires, where they go, or what they control...for the most part.I'm with Rusty on this one. Just grounding the wire doesn't make sense. You aren't running around in low range all the time, so why would you want the ECU to think you are? I guess I'm not seeing the purpose behind "grounding" pin 16 on a full time basis.
Jack
First guy I talked to actually said that there are more components involved than the VSS in determining shift points and that Id be find running it the way it is. He said for piece of mind that I should talk to "troy" the programmer dude and that was what he said.
Simple enough to wire a temporary switch in. If it needs to be grounded when in Low we can put a contact switch on the range selector other wise we'll just ground it full time.I have NO IDEA what happens with those wires, where they go, or what they control...for the most part.
First guy I talked to actually said that there are more components involved than the VSS in determining shift points and that Id be find running it the way it is. He said for piece of mind that I should talk to "troy" the programmer dude and that was what he said.
I have the same motor, trans and harness. shift points in low are fine but does not shift perfect in hi. i have driven it three thousand miles and only seems to shift weird when you really stomp on it. i can send you any pics if you would like. very impressed with your build!
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- #2,907
rusty_tlc said:
So by range selector, you mean the high/low switch in the t case?
There are no shifter sensors on the trans from Howell on their harness. So that would be the only thing I could see working if it's to be based off of a switch.
I've posted a flag on pirate re. This issue, and some folks have come up with some VERY elaborate methods to get that VSS on the t case over the trans. NOT something I wanna do at this point as my s*** is almost all back together.
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- #2,908
Cool set up. That is similar to what some of the guyz were doing on Pirate. However, my s*** is almost back together and Id like to find a simpler solution than pulling all this crap back apart.
Had a little discussion where OrangeFJ45 posted up this insightful bit of info....
you're looking for 4-low signal, like troy mentioned. don't get that confused with the 4wd indicator. the computer does'nt care if you're in 2wd or 4wd. it needs to know if you're in low range.
by hooking up the low switch to the 16 pin on the red connector and grounding the other leg, the computer senses ground and knows when you're in low range. then it makes the appropriate adjustments to run right. most everything is actuated via switched grounds these days.
not all split cases have the 4-low switch. most do not. at least in the US, only the 62 cases have them but you can drill and tap the earlier case and install the switch. i have extras if you need one.
one thing you did'nt mention or maybe i did'nt see it is wether you have a howell harness or not. troy knows his s*** and is very helful. he's also very busy........
i always use a factory gm computer mounting tray from an s-10. very similar to the van mounts but has a metal strap to lock the ecu in place.
the howell harness uses 8 gounds, in two sets of four. one is a set of black wires all going to one ring terminal, the other is a set of four brown wires going to a ring termial. attach them to the back of one of the heads. make sure you have good chassis, enbgine and body grounds. you can never have enough.
So, Dude at howell was HALF right, but I have my suspisions that he wasnt TOTALLY on board with what I was trying to accomplish. Like Rusty and Locrawlin said above (and what I had thought about after I got off the phone) that there needs to be a switch in between somewhere.
So George followed up with the idea of making a bracket with a switch off of the LOW RANGE shifter so it will only activate when in LOW RANGE!
Gawt DAMNIT!!! I thought I was PAST this CRAP!!!!
Had a little discussion where OrangeFJ45 posted up this insightful bit of info....
you're looking for 4-low signal, like troy mentioned. don't get that confused with the 4wd indicator. the computer does'nt care if you're in 2wd or 4wd. it needs to know if you're in low range.
by hooking up the low switch to the 16 pin on the red connector and grounding the other leg, the computer senses ground and knows when you're in low range. then it makes the appropriate adjustments to run right. most everything is actuated via switched grounds these days.
not all split cases have the 4-low switch. most do not. at least in the US, only the 62 cases have them but you can drill and tap the earlier case and install the switch. i have extras if you need one.
one thing you did'nt mention or maybe i did'nt see it is wether you have a howell harness or not. troy knows his s*** and is very helful. he's also very busy........
i always use a factory gm computer mounting tray from an s-10. very similar to the van mounts but has a metal strap to lock the ecu in place.
the howell harness uses 8 gounds, in two sets of four. one is a set of black wires all going to one ring terminal, the other is a set of four brown wires going to a ring termial. attach them to the back of one of the heads. make sure you have good chassis, enbgine and body grounds. you can never have enough.
So, Dude at howell was HALF right, but I have my suspisions that he wasnt TOTALLY on board with what I was trying to accomplish. Like Rusty and Locrawlin said above (and what I had thought about after I got off the phone) that there needs to be a switch in between somewhere.
So George followed up with the idea of making a bracket with a switch off of the LOW RANGE shifter so it will only activate when in LOW RANGE!
Gawt DAMNIT!!! I thought I was PAST this CRAP!!!!
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It's never done brother ... I have been DD mine for two years and I'm still finding s*** to redo :-/
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So, I called Troy at Howell AGAIN to ATTEMPT to get this VSS thing straightened out....
It wasnt clear to me, but...as suspected, the 16 Pin wire DOES need to be SWITCHED somehow.
So the question then becomes....
A) Do I try and make a bracket to work off of the High/ Low shifter that will AUTOMATICALLY switch when I shift into low gear?
B) Run a toggle switch that I can just reach up when I shift into 4L and click on?
Personally, it would be obviously much easier and more bullet proof to run the toggle off the dash. The reason I say that is if the switch fails, its easy to replace and all I have to do is pull it from the dash. THAT, and it will be a 100% POSITIVE switch.
If I make something off of the shifter, there may be question if its working, if its seated right and contacting right etc. PLUS, it will be a BITCH to get to.
The only down side to the toggle is remembering to switch it when hitting the 4 low. After a few times...that should be an issue.
Opinions!!!!!
It wasnt clear to me, but...as suspected, the 16 Pin wire DOES need to be SWITCHED somehow.
So the question then becomes....
A) Do I try and make a bracket to work off of the High/ Low shifter that will AUTOMATICALLY switch when I shift into low gear?
B) Run a toggle switch that I can just reach up when I shift into 4L and click on?
Personally, it would be obviously much easier and more bullet proof to run the toggle off the dash. The reason I say that is if the switch fails, its easy to replace and all I have to do is pull it from the dash. THAT, and it will be a 100% POSITIVE switch.
If I make something off of the shifter, there may be question if its working, if its seated right and contacting right etc. PLUS, it will be a BITCH to get to.
The only down side to the toggle is remembering to switch it when hitting the 4 low. After a few times...that should be an issue.
Opinions!!!!!
Just use a double switch on the shifter and use the second circuit for a check light on the dash. You can pick the colour yourself.
Based on reading your posts, it seems like you're getting anxious about getting this back on the road. I can't blame you, I get anxious when my rig is down for a month let alone a couple of years! In terms of getting your rig back on the road as soon as possible with a good running configuration, I'd say install a switch on the dash. It'll be faster to set up, more reliable and if you decide that you don't like it somewhere down the road, you can take the time to fab up a nice shifter bracket with an integrated switch. That will allow you to get your truck on the road faster and enjoy it sooner.
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- #2,913
FAWK YEAH!
Its getting so close to the end of this thing I can taste it. However, the switch on the dash is not so much of a time savings as it is a reliability concern and long(er) term access. What Im worried about with making a bracket that I design, would be the thing moving around, coming loose and not making appropriate contact. I havent seen too many swtiches like that of a brake switch, but that would be the best example of what I would need for this application. Im heading out to the "shop" now, and Ill take a look and see if I can come up with some ideas.
you mean 2?.. but yes I agree, I forgot about the duals, just make a toggle.
1) 203 low range, t-case in 4hi
2) t-case in low range, 203 in hi
3) 203 in low range, t-case in low range
I know the 203 and t-case have very similar low ranges, but I still think in mini truck cases and most other (excluding 203/205 doublers) doublers which have different low ranges between the two.
Jack
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- #2,917
I hadn't really even considered ALL of the low gears. Good point!!!
Honestly, I like the switch option for the simplicity and accessibility.
Since it's sort of resounding GO for the dash switch, thats what I'll do then.
Thanks for the input gents!!!
Honestly, I like the switch option for the simplicity and accessibility.
Since it's sort of resounding GO for the dash switch, thats what I'll do then.
Thanks for the input gents!!!
You do realize these systems are self learning, so every time you forget to toggle the switch you fxxx up the program and it will effect your driving in hi and low.
If you put a switch on both levers and connect them paralel to ground it doesn't matter which one is engaged at least the cpu gets a message it is in low.
You can ev en make the switches in the tub for easy access.
Just my 0.02.
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- #2,919
waiting for time said:
What will be the effect on the driving?
locrwln1 said:1) 203 low range, t-case in 4hi
2) t-case in low range, 203 in hi
3) 203 in low range, t-case in low range
I know the 203 and t-case have very similar low ranges, but I still think in mini truck cases and most other (excluding 203/205 doublers) doublers which have different low ranges between the two.
Jack
Oh, apparently I wasn't thinking. Also having dual cases I should have known this.
You were correct sir.
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