Cam's FJ60 Gets a Heart Transplant

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dnp said:
I know it sounds too easy to really do any good, but try adding a bottle of Redline Water Wetter. Their products are as good as they get, and the race shop associated with the dealership where I once worked saw measureable results by using it. Bottom line: there's no down side to trying it. I think OReilly carries it.
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I just ordered some. I'll report back.

The burp seems to have helped some. The temp dropped a few degrees and fluctuates much faster now, which leads me to believe there was some air in there.

Long-term, I'm going to try my spare 60 radiator that has the inlet & outlet on opposite ends. Then move to a Griffin if that doesn't work.

It has been keeping up in city driving in 95 degree weather. The temp will rise if I'm not moving. Interstate driving raises the temp too. It's not in the danger zone necessarily, but I can't go to Big Bend in the summer just yet.
 
Bomar just reminded me that we have a custom radiator shop here in town that makes aluminum radiators for everything from construction equipment to race vehicles to monster trucks.

New long term plan is to just have one made and skip trying to get my spare to work. I spoke to a guy there and he said they typically run about $450, which is much cheaper than a Griffin.

Another plus is that they'll have shop drawings in case another V8 swapper needs one.
 
I'm not sure you will find anything that performs or last better than the 4 core brass tank OEM type replacement radiator.
 
Only problem these days is actually finding a brass core all metal rad for anything. Seems all the replacements are going alumin/plastic. All aluminum seems to becoming the option if you want an all metal one.
 
Like Nolen said, off the shelf aluminum radiators may not be better, but the custom ones are built pretty stout.

Reading the FAQ on the Griffin website (sure, they are biased toward AL), they say the aluminum's are stronger & outlast brass and actually cool better. Why? Because they can run larger tubes for more flow. So a 2 row aluminum (w/1" tubes) outperforms a 5 row brass (with 1/2" tubes).

The local guy did not hesitate when I asked about aluminum vs. brass. He said without a doubt these will cool better. Since I have all the depth in the world between the motor & radiator, I will make sure to get one with ample capacity. I want to be able to idle in Death Valley with the AC on in July and not have issues.

It will be a while before I get into this. It's too effin' hot to wrench right now and I am burnt out on truck mods at the moment. Not to mention that the budget committee is tired of steering money toward the motor swap.
 
For what it's worth, I just put a cheapo 2-row all aluminum radiator in my 60 from Champion. Granted the OEM was 27 years old, but it cools my little 2F tractor engine just fine (in fact, really well). I have been driving it a ton in this heatwave with AC on full blast. I was really just going to use it for a month or two until I got my OEM re-cored (or bought a better OEM-type one), but it's working so well I haven't seen the need to spend that cash.

I don't know how long it will last, but $209 with the ride won't have me crying if it craps out.
 
FJ60Cam said:
The burp seems to have helped some. The temp dropped a few degrees and fluctuates much faster now, which leads me to believe there was some air in there.
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As I recall we had a hard time getting all the air out of Bertha's Vortec too. Burped it several times.
 
A SBC is generally not very hard to cool, but my understanding is that the newer generations of these engines just run hotter, for whatever reason. Cam, is there a generally-accepted "safe" temperature at which your version should be running? (BTW, I can't remember: are you using an LQ9, LSx or what?)
 
My motor is designated LMG. Similar to the others truck motors, but the first of the Gen IV with the AFM/DOD stuff (that I have turned off.)

I don't know for sure. Probably 195-210 is the normal range, maybe 215, with spikes into the low 220's. I've read in a few places that they go limp mode or at least partial limp mode at 235, but I don't know that for sure.

The thermostat doesn't open up til 195, so that's probably already hotter than older motors will ever see.

My concern is that I'm saw 210-220 while slow crawling or on long hill climbs - but it was only 50-60 degrees out. I don't think it could hang in those conditions if it was in the 80s and up, which I'd easily see at the Ramble.

Once it gets hot out, everything starts putting out more heat - the AC, transmission... and it all snowballs and blows through the radiator, which already has the hot air to deal with.

I'm not in a panic, just trying to plan for that 1% of the time that I'll really need the reserve capacity.
 
Warmer engines are more efficient and suffer less wear once everything expands with the temprature increase. I worked on some large generators for Uncle Sam with ebullient cooling systems. Those systems ran above the boiling point by running the cooling system under high pressure. Kinda cool stuff.
But, modern automotive systems are a different story. I think you are on track and adding cooling capacity is the thing to do. 220 with ambient in the 50-60 range is scary.
 
That was on a long, steep, several minute climb in NV. Engine braking down the backside sucked the heat out instantly.

From what I've read, these have less coolant inside the motor. There is also a lot less metal mass in the heads and block. The result is that they generate a lot of heat really fast when you call for power. And cool down really fast - but you need a big heat sink (radiator) to dump the heat.
 
http://www.autozone.com/cooling-hea...yota/land-cruiser/1986/6-cylinders-f-4-2l-2bl

Been running one of these for about 4 years now with v8. Its modified but thats just to deal with the water neck size and locations.

I had a ron davis radiator at one time..until it cracked but I did not have a good fan shroud at that time and was not tracking temps.... the "cracking" prompted me to get out of the aluminum market....I"m sure there are some other good radiators out there...the spectra one has been good to me, 4 row brass tank..
 
I'm guessing my moving the upper neck didn't help matters.

And maybe my slight engine/transmission tune adds a little.

My fan clutch doesn't kick on until it's about 205-210 (jives with Nolen's fan coming on at 210 on his buggy) and even then doesn't stay on much.

Could be a lot of things. Maybe this radiator had half the tubes clogged.

Either way, whoever my first engine swap customer is will have a bulletproof setup:grinpimp:
 
yes..fan clutch is not going to come on until 10-15 degrees above your thermostat (on OEM setup)

normal ops are going to be in the 200F range...195 on cold ass days....205-210 on hot...under hard work load...215..220 at times.

my thermostat is 195 too, fan clutch on the 5.7 does not come on at times until 210 or so...sometimes hotter.

you'll be running somewhere between 195 and 215 all the time. If it does not cool off right after fan clutch comes on and climb north of 220...problem. Mine cools right off at idle.

Best fab time and $$ spent on cooling is good radiator and a good fan shroud
 
I'm close, it sounds like I just need some reserve capacity to dump the excess heat. I'm at the margins on just steady state operation.

The burping helped for sure. I'll post up the Water Wetter results this weekend.

I'll swing by the radiator shop sometime to talk to Gary and get his opinion on what I need.
 
It's interesting, if you think of the radiator as a heat sink, to watch the engine, transmission, and intake air temps. I keep all of these pulled on the scangauge screen.

You can watch the radiator "fill up" with heat. First the water temp rises. Then you can see it bounce around the t'stat temp. Then the intake temp rises. Then the water temp moves to 200. Then the intake starts to rise again. When the transmission is up to temp the intake climbs even higher. Then the water temp edges up....

The AC adds about 2-3 degrees. Turning the heater on subtracts about the same, maybe a little more.

You can kinda tell how much reserve is left by the intake temps. (However that will change if/when I switch to the 80 air cleaner and direct intake air.)

Despite all the radiator talk, I'm still lovin' the swap. It is so close to being factory reliable and being able to just hop in at a moments notice and bomb across the country and back. I'm still amazed how well it did on the NV trip. This is exactly what 60's (and 80's) need.

So far, my fuel filter issue has been my only real 'leave me stranded' problem.
 
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