all these dog threads - I wanna Lab!

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Fly Rod said:
Sure are alot of opinions on labs here. Remeber opinions are like anything else, you get what you pay for.

The arguments for the various colors of labs are mute if you do your home work. Right now I have one of each color sitting at my feet and I would hunt over any of them any day, even the yellow puppy.

I work with alot of labs in training for hunting. With the proper breeding any color is a good color. My black male is from FT lines ind is the most natural hunter in the bunch. My chocolate female is the smartest and will out hunt 95% of the "hunting" dogs out there. The little Yellow pup is 9 weeks old and is already retrieving whole goose wings and small ducks ($1,200 pup). It all boils down to propper breeding, am I repeating myself?

Here are some observations, if you want a lab get a lab. Blacks are predominant on the market. Chocolates are harder to find a dog that will hunt. There are alot of back yard (and pro) breeders breeding only for color. This does nothing for the desirable traits of retrieving. I will breed my CLF with a chocolate factored male. I may get 1 or 2 chocolates and the rest will be black. The blacks will sell for $600 and the chocolates will sell for $1,000. Like I said a chocolate that can hunt is a premium dog.

Other points, the hair from yellows shows everywhere in the house and on cloths. The black is not as bad and the chocolate is hardly noticable. As stated above an out of control dog is a reflection of its owner, not the dog. Unless you get a puppy with known lunacy (beware Cosmo) you will be fine. Find a good trainer and work with them to train your dog, it is very rewarding.

Check out www.workingretrievers.com for puppy's. Get health guarentees and look at as many pedagrees as you can. If you want a good chocolate google Cabin Creek Kennels. My CLF is out of their stock and is an outstanding dog.

Just my $.025

Fly Rod
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Or what he said. NOTE TO SELF READ ALL POSTS BEFORE REPLYING :doh:
 
That needs a caption...

I just hear the chihuahua saying, "Who's your daddy?!? That's right - I'm your daddy!!! Take it b!tch, take it all! No one can love you like a chihuahua loves you..."
humpin.webp
 
PHBeerman said:
White shark, sorry for the strong point earlier, as you may guess this is a sore point with me. I used to be very active in Field Trials and this was the newbie question of choice (Read:Hey Woody Why isn't my post count rising?) You are getting closer, but still a bit off. It is not that breeders are breeding blacks exclusively, as much as it is that there are people breeding for the more sought after and more expensive Chocolates and Yellows. This back yard breeding (See Erics Pit Bulls :D) is causing the lab breed to lose some of the genetic depth that is needed.

This is the best site I have ever found to explain the genetics of lab coloring.

http://www.labrador-resources.com/color.html
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True. I've seen a lot of stupid black labs and a few smart yellows. I still have yet to see a smart chocolate! :D My father in law is a veterinarian of 30 years and he's pretty much of the opinion that you can breed whatever traits you want into whatever color you like, but the breeding has been mainly focused on the black labs for trials, etc., thus the popularity. I agree that they all have potential for intelligence, but the mass majority of labs I've come across fit the generalization. My black lab was an AKC, 130 lb, hunting machine, from HighTest Labs in Oroville, Ca. They specifically breed hunting dogs for duck/geese/pheasant, etc. Super smart dog, but he had a mind of his own and liked to express himself too often. :D The only downside to selective breeding is the propensity for hip dysplaysia and other health issues when a small breeding stock is used. This is often seen in German Shepards, and some Labs and Rotts.
 
Labs? Nah.........

Get yourself a Chow (the first two, with and without hair) or a good ol' mutt (rescued from the woods, in bed, at the camp...)
 
The only dog (Besides Coyotes) that I ever had to shoot was a chow. Ok maybe there were 3 of them. I would let a pit bull and a rattlesnake play with my kids before I would let a Chow near them.
 
My family has always had labs! When I was 5 it was a BIG black lab named, "Dammit!" After him we had a chocolate named "Willy." After Willy we had a girl black lab named "Emmy Lou!" Then it was back to a black lab/rot mix named "Ike!" I love labs too, and when we get out of our townhouse and into a real house with a yard, where one of us can stay home with a dog, the wife and I are go0nna carry on the tradition!!
 
PHBeerman said:
The only dog (Besides Coyotes) that I ever had to shoot was a chow. Ok maybe there were 3 of them. I would let a pit bull and a rattlesnake play with my kids before I would let a Chow near them.
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Yeah, every Chow I've come across has been super aggressive and mean. I usually kill pits in my spare time, but I'm seriously considering picking up some freelance Chow work on the side. :D
 
I got bit in the ass by a blind chow when I was 12. I was over at a friend's house walking outside to play some b-ball and my friend "forgot" to tell me not to walk across "Chip's rug." Sleeping Chip didn't like my walking across his rug and reared up and took a chunk out. Haven't liked chows since. :flipoff2:
I love my golden. Best dogs in the world as far as I'm concerned. Labs a close second. But I have had the pleasure of knowing a very stupid choclate. Dumber than a bag of hammers. After labs, a Boykin. Then.....
 
bkgiii said:
Get yourself a Chow (the first two, with and without hair) or a good ol' mutt (rescued from the woods, in bed, at the camp...)
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I got a half Chow / half Lab now - great dog just dumb as a post - but super protective and loyal to a fault!

Hoss is about 100lbs and loves to chase Navajo's - it is the funniest damn thing - I think he smells the mutton on em - he also loves to cut cattle - complete natural
 
DenverCruiser said:
We have a winner!
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unless the one of the gene loci's responsible for intellegence is situated (physically) close to one of the gene loci's responsible for pigmentation...

just a thought
 
PHBeerman said:
The only dog (Besides Coyotes) that I ever had to shoot was a chow. Ok maybe there were 3 of them. I would let a pit bull and a rattlesnake play with my kids before I would let a Chow near them.
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i had a black Chow for about 6 months, just long enough to fall deeply attached to him and i had to put him down. he attacked a kid and lunged at my ex (maybe he knew something i didn't?)
very sad day indeed.
 
Geeez, there are sooo many inaccuracies in these LAB posts, I don't know where to begin! Labs, by FAR are the best dogs - period. I trained my Chocolate Lab and she is the smartest, most perceptive, obedient and gentle (when around kids) animal I know. She doesn't excessively bark, jump, chew or other hallmarks of a LAME -ass owner who didn't do the proper training with his pooch. And as for swimming? Look out - you would NOT believe the swimming ability my dog has :flamingo: - in ROUGH ATLANTIC OCEAN SURF! Labs have a lot of fire power - I like to call them "bouncy" but they have the best temperment of any breed. Sydney is even trained off-leash and it's ALWAYS the other nutt-job dogs barking, yapping, jumping like fools :bounce: :bounce2: when they see her. No thanks - I put the time in training her and she is a pure joy to bond with. Just so you know, we have many antiques in our house including an 8 x 10 persian rug. She has never had an accident in the house and has a stomach of iron. Give them some attention and love, and you'll have a best friend for years and years. Lab rescue, BTW, is where I got my Lan - she was only a year old. Try Lab rescue first and put these dog mills out of business. :beer:
 
BOUNDER said:
She doesn't excessively bark, jump, chew or other hallmarks of a LAME -ass owner who didn't do the proper training with his pooch.
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Ypu obviously got the exception, not the rule. LAME-ass owners? Not likely. Labs bark. Labs bounce. Labs jump. Labs chew. These are not signs of a ill-trained dog, these are signs of a typical lab. Call them generalizations if you like, but I know a few dozen lab owners who would laugh at your assessment. Labs are also usually crazy about water, making them popular with duck and geese hunters as they are strong enough to make long cold retrievals.

Pit Bulls are know for chewing kids. Are there exceptions? Sure. A few here and there.

Labs are known for barking, chewing, jumping, digging, and the like, but they are just being normal dogs. They don't do these things to an excess generally, only enough to comment that they do some of these things more than other dogs. I also think that labs (any color), and goldies are the best dogs money can buy. Good companions, patient, happy and protective around kids, and reasonably smart.

The main reasons labs cause any trouble is because they are bored. The smarter the dog, the easier they get bored. Border collies are awesome, super intelligent dogs, but they need room to run and lots of attention. Labs are usually not as smart as bordies, but they are smart enough that they will bark to get your attention when bored. If you don't respond, they're going to chew on something, or jump/dig under a fence to find some action.

My last lab was an extremely well trained dog from a professional AKC breeder who specifically trains gun/hunting dogs and maintains a 6-12 month waiting list. The dog responded to whistles, silent hand gestures, and spoken commands. He was really smart. Did he bark? Yes! Why? Because I had to work 8 hours a day and he'd get bored. He chewed off the end of the redwood porch steps so I got him a 12 inch rawhide bone that he completely consumed in 20 minutes! Wow! I got him dog toys, but they didn't last long. He chewed through the air conditioner condenser lines and punctured them. He just got bored easily.

He could also swim underwater for 30 seconds at a time, he could cut through inpenetrable tules and reeds line a CAT D9 to flush pheasants out, he could run all day long, and he never growled at anyone or took an attack stance. I had to put him down because of hip dysplasia. I'd get another like him in a heartbeat though. His name was Clyde and he was an awesome dog.
 
White Shark,

I know you hold your opinion close about labs barking, jumping, digging, ect. I can say after working with @ 40-50 labs over the last two years the ones that exhibit these traits are the exception, not the rule. The exceptions have always been traced back to how they were, or weren't, trained as a puppy. I train dogs and work with people who train to different levels. What we are talking about are training issues for the most part. Barking, jumping, digging ect. are not hereditary traits in any dog, they are learned. Even our highest powered competative retriever is controlable, you just have to be able to project your level of authority over the dogs.

Yes the out of control dogs ARE a reflection of their owners. The reflection is that they have not taken the time to train their dogs. To be honest few people, even some "trainers" I know, really know how to comunicate properly with their dogs.

Yes some labs suffer from the bordom syndrome you reference above. That is also a reflection of the owners not following through with the commitment they have taken on by getting a dog of any breed. There are alot of good dog owners out there. But unfortunately ther are more really crappy dog owners who let their dogs suffer and become a nuisence to society. That is not the dogs fault it is the owners fault.

Believe what you may, problems with dogs are rarely caused because they are a member of a certain breed. I say rarely because a dog can be breed for desirable traits such as aggression, retrieveing, herding ect. Problems occur when the owners don't train the dogs to be good members of society, just like raising kids!

Fly Rod
 
Fly Rod said:
White Shark,

I know you hold your opinion close about labs barking, jumping, digging, ect. I can say after working with @ 40-50 labs over the last two years the ones that exhibit these traits are the exception, not the rule. The exceptions have always been traced back to how they were, or weren't, trained as a puppy. I train dogs and work with people who train to different levels. What we are talking about are training issues for the most part. Barking, jumping, digging ect. are not hereditary traits in any dog, they are learned. Even our highest powered competative retriever is controlable, you just have to be able to project your level of authority over the dogs.

Yes the out of control dogs ARE a reflection of their owners. The reflection is that they have not taken the time to train their dogs. To be honest few people, even some "trainers" I know, really know how to comunicate properly with their dogs.

Yes some labs suffer from the bordom syndrome you reference above. That is also a reflection of the owners not following through with the commitment they have taken on by getting a dog of any breed. There are alot of good dog owners out there. But unfortunately ther are more really crappy dog owners who let their dogs suffer and become a nuisence to society. That is not the dogs fault it is the owners fault.

Believe what you may, problems with dogs are rarely caused because they are a member of a certain breed. I say rarely because a dog can be breed for desirable traits such as aggression, retrieveing, herding ect. Problems occur when the owners don't train the dogs to be good members of society, just like raising kids!

Fly Rod
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I could not agree more. Some of the traits that WS talks about are somewhat normal behaviour for "pups". I train my own dogs along with a friend of mine who is a full time trainer (labs only). And what I see is exactly along the lines of what Fly Rod has described.

A lab (and most other dogs) if kept penned up with little exercise (and usually too much high protein feed) can exhibit destructive behavior. I'm not talking about "pups" (you have to cut them some slack). My lab, and virtually all of the other "trained" ones I am around do not jump, bark excessively, dig, fight, chew, etc....

Also, I am confident that I can take any decently bred "Chocolate" and make a good (if not excellent) field dog out of him. Same holds true for blacks and yellows. You have to be patient, you have to use repetition, you must determine how to work with each dog (they're different), and it helps to be smarter than the dog.

There are very few "dumb, out of control" labs out there....but there are tons of lazy, misinformed owners.

My .02
 
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