80-Series axle advice needed

CreeperSleeper

Cascade Cruisers
SILVER Star
Joined
May 16, 2005
Messages
7,266
Location
Forest Grove, OR
Well I had a heartbreaking night last night... The DS inner axle seal was leaking (again), so I decided to pull apart the front end to repack bearings and swap the birfs from side to side. In the process I realized why it was leaking. It looks like the housing is slightly bent. My plan was to swap out the Marlin Crawler inner seals for OEM (they have a bit more deflection and may be able to seal with the bent housing), throw it back together and wheel it until after the body and cage was done.

In the process, I decided to pull the 3rd member to clean the grease out of it and this is what I saw:
brokenrp.jpg


Now not only do I need a new housing, I need new 5.29's as well. Financially, I am at a point where I can't afford gears, set-up or a housing so I have no clue what to do. My eventual goal is to have the 80 on 40" tires one day, so I need to keep that in mind. After sleeping on it, these are the only options I see:

1) Clean everything and throw it back together. It wasn't making any noise and I had no idea the r&p were bad, so run it for now. This is the only way I will be on the trail at all this year unless money/parts drop into my lap. Doing this I can still wheel while I'm collecting parts and I there shouldn't be anything I can destroy that doesn't already need to be replaced.

2) Leave it torn apart and start searching for a housing and saving up for new gears. I already have Longfield inners/birfs and ARP studs, so this would be the least expensive route for a permentate fix. My concern is if the axle will hold up to 40" tires in the future.

3) Sell the good parts from my axles and start searching for 1-tons. If I choose this option, it would more than likely be a couple years before it is out of the shop because I would have to build those axles up and modify them to fit.

I need your guys opinion!
 
Joined
Apr 4, 2006
Messages
13,983
Location
NorCal
I vote for #1.

That axle is never going to stand up to 40" tires. Never. Even Bobby Long now includes a note to not run over 39" tires and that's with 9.5" R&P.
 
Joined
Jun 12, 2007
Messages
3,276
Location
Portland OR
I'd say slap it back together and run it as is so you can wheel. You trailer it now anyways. Install a bungle cord on the driver's seat that hooks to the back of your shoe so you can "feel" like you're mashing the go pedal but will actually be taking it easy. The great thing is that it's resistance adjustable depending on how spirited you feel. This will help you make your current set up last until you can save/hunt/pillage for 1tons. If stuff isn't holding up for you with 37s on I doubt you'll make it last longer with 40s.
 

ginericLC

Wagon Wheeler!
Joined
Jan 29, 2003
Messages
7,825
Location
MH, IDaho
I'd put hubs on it and run it as is. Get out there and enjoy it until it breaks. The hubs are so you can quickly get it into rear wheel drive mode to get back to the trailer when it breaks.
 

CreeperSleeper

Cascade Cruisers
SILVER Star
Joined
May 16, 2005
Messages
7,266
Location
Forest Grove, OR
Throwing it back together seems to be advice I'm getting from everybody, so that's what I will do for now. Now I just need to decide between 1-tons or sticking with LC axles... I think that the damage to the ring and pinion isn't from hard wheeling or tire size. I'm sure it was either a bad gear or something was in the 90w. I will never know which one and it really doesn't matter. As for the bent housing, that was because I jumped it! :flipoff2:

Thanks for all of the advice, guys. I do appreciate it!
 

Tapage

Club 4X4 Panamá
Joined
Apr 4, 2003
Messages
23,585
Location
Panamá
Website
www.4x4panama.com
Honestly any cruiser axle it's on the limit over 40" ( or on ) I only would run 40" or more if I'm taking care of the axle and removing weight on top of it .. ( kind of complicated in a full body 80 ).

I have a good trip this weekend and tell you if my 60 series axle hold my 40" chained ..
 
Joined
Sep 13, 2008
Messages
467
Location
fayetteville, wv
id wheel it like that and start saving for tons. i did my entire 1-ton swap for just under $5k including new wheels and tires. its really not that bad if you leave the rear suspension alone and just 3-link the front. i reused my stock draglink, panhard bars, shocks, springs, driveshafts and rear links. i bought brackets, 3 front control arms from rusty's offroad, and flanges for the 60/14b to use the stock driveshafts. not a very difficult swap if you dont go too crazy with it.
 

Cruiserdrew

On the way there
SILVER Star
Joined
Mar 15, 2003
Messages
15,927
Location
Sacramento, CA
A used housing if you can find one (I had to buy a new one) plus a new gearset. That ring and pinion are done. No reason to put it back together. I would put it together to limp off the trail, otherwise it's broken.

You may be able to take that housing to a frame shop and get it straightened. That would be a good and relatively inexpensive short term solution.


Regarding an 80 series on 40s-Sam S. has been able to make that work, and impressed us all. His truck is an excellent wheeler and it's huge. If you can't resist mashing the go pedal, you need to upgrade to stronger components. Actually, you just need stronger components. A 14 bolt for the rear will cost you less than one gearset. A D60 front will be more expensive.

And BTW-OEM axle seals will tolerate more off-centeredness than the Marlin ones will. There was a good thread on this awhile back with pictures that illustrated this very well.
 

CreeperSleeper

Cascade Cruisers
SILVER Star
Joined
May 16, 2005
Messages
7,266
Location
Forest Grove, OR
id wheel it like that and start saving for tons. i did my entire 1-ton swap for just under $5k including new wheels and tires. its really not that bad if you leave the rear suspension alone and just 3-link the front. i reused my stock draglink, panhard bars, shocks, springs, driveshafts and rear links. i bought brackets, 3 front control arms from rusty's offroad, and flanges for the 60/14b to use the stock driveshafts. not a very difficult swap if you dont go too crazy with it.

Well that makes my decision for me.... I still owe $5k on the truck! If that is what I'm looking at to get tons under it, it will never happen. Just way too much money until I get things paid off. (Thanks ex-wife!)

A used housing if you can find one (I had to buy a new one) plus a new gearset. That ring and pinion are done. No reason to put it back together. I would put it together to limp off the trail, otherwise it's broken.

You may be able to take that housing to a frame shop and get it straightened. That would be a good and relatively inexpensive short term solution.

Regarding an 80 series on 40s-Sam S. has been able to make that work, and impressed us all. His truck is an excellent wheeler and it's huge. If you can't resist mashing the go pedal, you need to upgrade to stronger components. Actually, you just need stronger components. A 14 bolt for the rear will cost you less than one gearset. A D60 front will be more expensive.

And BTW-OEM axle seals will tolerate more off-centeredness than the Marlin ones will. There was a good thread on this awhile back with pictures that illustrated this very well.

I'm thinking that I would at least get a run or two out of this 3rd before it completely breaks. I know it won't last forever but it may get me through the season. I'm now just trying to decide between stock or 1-tons...

I do realize OEM axle seals are the way to go. That is what started this whole thing! I was just going to swap OEM's back in and clean everything.

BTW, (if you don't mind me asking) how much did that new housing cost you?
 

Cruiserdrew

On the way there
SILVER Star
Joined
Mar 15, 2003
Messages
15,927
Location
Sacramento, CA
BTW, (if you don't mind me asking) how much did that new housing cost you?


I think it was $900 ($800 + $100 to ship) or so from Onur at American Toyota, but they would have to quote the price. By his story, #1 son bent the housing while driving like grandma out in Mojave (RIIGGHHTTT!).

That little incident cost me $900 for the housing, $400 for 2 spindles, $300 in knuckle rebuild parts and most of a week of my life, not that I'm still pissed about it or anything......:mad:

At the time (Jan 2011) that was the only new housing available in North America, but I'm sure you can get another. Call Onur/CruiserDan and find out.
 

Cruiserdrew

On the way there
SILVER Star
Joined
Mar 15, 2003
Messages
15,927
Location
Sacramento, CA
Crap... I can find a used complete axle for less than that!

Yes you can, but since most are off wrecks, you don't know that they are really good or not. In the end, replacing your housing, repalcing your gears and running 35s will be your cheapest and best bet unless you want to start burning $$.

A friend of mine got a perfect and clean axle complete for $250 but that's the best deal I've seen. It was on Craig's. If you go to a yard, they want close for used that you can buy for new, since their price is typically List x 0.5.


I don't know what you can do yourself, but the 1 Tons on Dusty's truck came out great, and that is the direction I would head if you really want to wheel your 80 hard enough to break stuff.

Like I said a rear 14 bolt will be practically free, and a front D60 will be $1000-$1500. Then you need another $2500 of upgrades and lockers to get to bulletproof.

Unfortunately, no free lunch.
 
Joined
Oct 24, 2009
Messages
786
Those gears look like a bad install to me.

The bent housing can be straightened easily. I have seen Bobby do several and just got my very bent housing in my wheeler straight once again with a couple chains, a 5 foot chunk of 10 inch Ibeam and a 12 ton jack. Put an inner axle in it and bend it back till the axle is centered in the axle seal again.

By putting that diff back in and wheeling you are being a douche. Nobody in my group would knowingly wheel with bad junk like that and feel good about asking anther person to trash their truck getting you to your trailer when you knew better than to beat half trashed junk to begin with.

I will stick with good ol marlin seals. I dont care what the internet decided was the best. I have installed tons of axle seals and I hate the stockers. just installing a birf will ruin them. Last week I tore apart a truck to replace a broken longfield and the rig had one stock seal and one marlin seal. After we tore it apart the side with the marlin seal was still sporting nice blue marine grease in the trunions and gray bobby grease in the birf. The side that had the stocker seal was full of birf soup. Nastyasss runny grease goop oozing out as soon as it was opened up. Thats plenty of proof for me.


Oh yeah, I have two standard fj80 housings and one fj80 Elocker housing for sale also. Birfs too. In the tacoma was area.

$200 used housing
$100 labor to setup gears
$200 gears

$500 total to fix it right. $200 if you straighten and set it up yourself

Its not rocket science or big loot to do it right.
 

CreeperSleeper

Cascade Cruisers
SILVER Star
Joined
May 16, 2005
Messages
7,266
Location
Forest Grove, OR
Yes you can, but since most are off wrecks, you don't know that they are really good or not. In the end, replacing your housing, repalcing your gears and running 35s will be your cheapest and best bet unless you want to start burning $$.

A friend of mine got a perfect and clean axle complete for $250 but that's the best deal I've seen. It was on Craig's. If you go to a yard, they want close for used that you can buy for new, since their price is typically List x 0.5.


I don't know what you can do yourself, but the 1 Tons on Dusty's truck came out great, and that is the direction I would head if you really want to wheel your 80 hard enough to break stuff.

Like I said a rear 14 bolt will be practically free, and a front D60 will be $1000-$1500. Then you need another $2500 of upgrades and lockers to get to bulletproof.

Unfortunately, no free lunch.

I realize that you never know what you are going to get buying used but that could go the same way for tons. I do know that I will never drop back down to 35" tires! I'm on 37's now and I'm content with that size. They work great on the 80.

As far as running tons, I know that I can do the work myself and get them under the rig. However I don't want to do the work and spend the money if I don't have to. I just want to know if you can successfully run 40" tires on 80-series axles... This is a family wheeler, not a rock buggy!
 

CreeperSleeper

Cascade Cruisers
SILVER Star
Joined
May 16, 2005
Messages
7,266
Location
Forest Grove, OR
Those gears look like a bad install to me.

The bent housing can be straightened easily. I have seen Bobby do several and just got my very bent housing in my wheeler straight once again with a couple chains, a 5 foot chunk of 10 inch Ibeam and a 12 ton jack. Put an inner axle in it and bend it back till the axle is centered in the axle seal again.

By putting that diff back in and wheeling you are being a douche. Nobody in my group would knowingly wheel with bad junk like that and feel good about asking anther person to trash their truck getting you to your trailer when you knew better than to beat half trashed junk to begin with.

I will stick with good ol marlin seals. I dont care what the internet decided was the best. I have installed tons of axle seals and I hate the stockers. just installing a birf will ruin them. Last week I tore apart a truck to replace a broken longfield and the rig had one stock seal and one marlin seal. After we tore it apart the side with the marlin seal was still sporting nice blue marine grease in the trunions and gray bobby grease in the birf. The side that had the stocker seal was full of birf soup. Nastyasss runny grease goop oozing out as soon as it was opened up. Thats plenty of proof for me.


Oh yeah, I have two standard fj80 housings and one fj80 Elocker housing for sale also. Birfs too. In the tacoma was area.

$200 used housing
$100 labor to setup gears
$200 gears

$500 total to fix it right. $200 if you straighten and set it up yourself

Its not rocket science or big loot to do it right.

It wasn't a bad install. It looks like I got a bad gear set, unfortunately. The pattern on the gears are perfect. (I know you can't see that in the pic.)

As far as straightening my housing, that is a though. I want to truss the axle anyway, so that is a possiblity. It just seems like it would be difficult without a jig of some sort. However, I didn't think about using an inner axle as a gauge. :bang:

As far as wheeling with the wounded gears, how is that being a douche? I would understand that statement if I was planning on using it on the Rubicon or taking it to the Hammers but I'm not. The worst case would be a quick strap or winch to get me off of the rock I'm on, unbolt the DS and flanges and drive myself to the trailer... TSF is nice like that.

As for the MC vs. OEM seals, I'm not going to get in that debate on this thread. I have a new set of both sitting on my workbench and I can see how much better the OEM is for deflection.

You are 100% right when you say it's not rocket science or big loot to get my axle back into shape. If your elocked housing is straight, I would be interested in it for sure! BTW, can I borrow $500 to get everything together? You see, it doesn't matter if it's $500 or $50,000 if you don't have the money. :cheers:
 
Joined
Oct 24, 2009
Messages
786
It wasn't a bad install. It looks like I got a bad gear set, unfortunately. The pattern on the gears are perfect. (I know you can't see that in the pic.)

I said nothing about the pattern. Pattern is about 20 percent of a good gear install.

I would say the bearing preload is not tight and is letting the carrier deflect away form the pinion enough to ride on the edges of the teeth under torque resulting in all the damage on the edges.

A good pattern is not always in the middle of the tooth. heel to toe pattern is not nearly as important as the depth of the pinion in the ring gear.

Whats the backlash?

can you roll the pinion by turning the ring by hand? easy or hard or no?

Did you use new bearings when setting up the 5.29s?

Only a couple companies make 5.29 RC gears for HP thirds. Whos gears do you have?
 

CreeperSleeper

Cascade Cruisers
SILVER Star
Joined
May 16, 2005
Messages
7,266
Location
Forest Grove, OR
Chop- for this conversion it really doesn't matter. What does matter is the damage was not caused by me beating on it and where to go from here.
 
Joined
Jul 23, 2004
Messages
12,576
Location
Valley of the Heroes
I just want to know if you can successfully run 40" tires on 80-series axles...

I've yet to have an OEM birf last more than 2 rides on Lorena with 40's. She has seriously been down more than wheelable. This last break took out both birfs, Aussie locker pins and a handful of teeth in the ring gear.
I'm going to try longfield superset, I've got a R&P that hopefully can get to Longfield for cryo treatment soon, and I'm going to buy his flanges with bigger/extra dowels and run ARP hub studs. After that.... I'm done with theae axles...
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top Bottom