60 series front hubs on a 40 series axle? (1 Viewer)

ok - so I managed to get hold of a set of 60 series front hubs complete with disk brakes. The seller told me they were a straight bolt-up for the 40 series front axle but that I'd need to get longer brake lines and tie-rod-ends.

I'm guessing that I'm also going to need to sort the front CV's as the old ones were coarse spline and the 60's are fine?

I've tried hunting in the FAQ's and can't find anything. Maybe I'm just suffering a bit of male domestic blindness (probably caused from too little time in the shed!!!)

I'm hoping to get the Hell Creek Suspension 4" lift kit and some extended shackles so it's no problem if I have to add some extra stuff and have it all shipped from the good-ol' USofA to little ol' Neyoooo Zulland ;o)

Anyone able to offer any advice?

Thanks in advance for your help.
 
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i have 60,s series hubs and brakes on my 69 40 but used 79 steering arms to keep the stock tie rod .
 
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I'm guessing that I'm also going to need to sort the front CV's as the old ones were coarse spline and the 60's are fine?
The outer birfield lengths are also different. If you're using the 60 series hub housing & locking hubs you'll need the later style and will have to grind to fit.

shelfboy1 is right about using 79-84 FJ40 steering arms to keep your existing tie rods. They'll bolt right on to the 60 knuckles.
 
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Josie'sLandCruiser

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Hi All:

You need the complete 60/70 Series knuckles/brakes/free wheeling hubs, as well as the CV ("Birfield") joints.

Strip your existing front axle down to the outer axle tubes. You will need to clearance the lips of the inner bell to allow installation of the later Birfields. This is easy to do; a flap wheel on a angle grinder works well.

Do some searching here on MUD - there are several good write-ups on the process.

Good luck!

Alan
 
thanks all - I guess there's no avoiding the need to get some longer birfields and grind the housing.

Just out of curiousity / dumb question for the day: is it possible to transfer the old hubs from the 40 series to the 60 series disks? Would that allow me to retain the existing CV's?

ok - I'm sure I know the response I'm gonna get to that one but go lightly please - just done a 14 hour shift, had a SHIIIIIITE day and now relaxing to the umpteenth bottle of goodness ;o)
 
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Don,t panic. You did not mention the year of your 40, but I just did the 60 conversion myself on my 72 40 with no problems. As stated above, some light grinding to fit 60 Birfield, I was told to take off 60% off bottom, 40% off top, read some previous threads and you will understand. Also, I used my existing tie rod ends by using sleeves in 60 setup, again look up threads. Its a one weekend project with most the time in cleaning.
 
ok - so was just planning to start grinding when I came across a thread here (that I've now managed to lose the link to) that suggested that the 70 series axle inners are the same length as the FJ40 series?

Which left me wondering if this would be an option that would avoid the need to grind the CV housing?

i.e. just fit the 70 series inner axle complete with CV and birfield into the 40 series front axle and attach the 60 series disk-brake hubs.

Anyone tried this / know any reason why this would or wouldn't work?

Cheers
 

Stumpalama

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I think you may be getting confused. To make this explicitly clear: 60 series longside INNER axles are longer than a 40 series. The short side INNER axles are the same length. 60 series BIRFIELDS (CV's) are exactly the same as late model 40 series.
The issue of grinding the housing comes from the larger BELL of the later model birfields; it has nothing to do with the length of the birfield.
Your reference to post #52 in the thread is talking about inner AXLE length, not birfield. Inner axle length has NO BEARING in hub and knuckle configuration.

There are 2 types of knuckles SMALL PATTERN: early model 40's; and LARGE PATTERN knuckles: 60 and late model 40's. The "pattern refers to the studs sticking out of the top of the knuckles that the steering arms connect to. 60 series STEERING ARMS have a different arm configuration.

Bottom line: later model Birfields are better and if you have them you should use them.
 

Stumpalama

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First: Don't think your questions are dumb, we all learn by asking questions and it shows you're making the effort, so good on you for that.
I'm going to define some terms here to try to head-off any further confusion: Axle "Inners" connect the differential to the Birfield or "outer"

Inners' spline counts are all the same throughout the Land Cruiser 40, 55, 60 and 70 series (probably more, but these are the ones I am confident about) and they are all 27 splines on the differential and birfield connection ends. So there is no such thing as "fine" or "course" spline inners.
Birfields (outers): Identified by their outer spline count (Course (10) or Fine (30)) and their length (there is one length course spline that was for front drum brakes and are two different length fine splines).

Lastly, the "short side inners" for all 40, 55, 60 and 70 series are the same length. Longside inners 40, 55 and maybe 70 series are the same length; 60 series longsides are longer.

This may also help: http://www.cruiserfaq.com/09-02.php

So to answer your question, it's not a function of the inners, it is an issue with the birfield, spindle and hub combination. With the the 60 axle donor parts, you could use your 40 inners and mate them to the 60 birfs (outers) and use the 60 series knuckles, spindles and you need hubs that will fit later model (fine spline) outers (Birfs). The axle housings, including the "ball" (end), are the same outer dimension, but you have to grind or "clearance" the inside of the housing to accommodate the larger late model birfield bell.

So, that being said, you could then use the Warn hubs I offered before. And we have come full circle

Cheers,
Stump
 
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Josie'sLandCruiser

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Hi All:

First: Don't think your questions are dumb, we all learn by asking questions and it shows you're making the effort, so good on you for that.

Can't argue with that statement! :)

I'm going to define some terms here to try to head-off any further confusion: Axle "Inners" connect the differential to the Birfield or "outer"
Inners' spline counts are all the same throughout the Land Cruiser 40, 55, 60 and 70 series (probably more, but these are the ones I am confident about) and they are all 27 splines on the differential and birfield connection ends. So there is no such thing as "fine" or "course" spline inners.
Birfields (outers): Identified by their outer spline count (Course (10) or Fine (30)) and their length (there is one length course spline that was for front drum brakes and are two different length fine splines).

Just to clarify Stumpalama's post, pre-1968 US market Land Cruisers had the ten-spiline inner axle shafts, while the later rigs came with 30 spline inner axle shafts (at the differential.)[/B]

Regards,

Alan



Lastly, the "short side inners" for all 40, 55, 60 and 70 series are the same length. Longside inners 40, 55 and maybe 70 series are the same length; 60 series longsides are longer.

This may also help: TLC FAQ - 9.2 Birfield Sizes

So to answer your question, it's not a function of the inners, it is an issue with the birfield, spindle and hub combination. With the the 60 axle donor parts, you could use your 40 inners and mate them to the 60 birfs (outers) and use the 60 series knuckles, spindles and you need hubs that will fit later model (fine spline) outers (Birfs). The axle housings, including the "ball" (end), are the same outer dimension, but you have to grind or "clearance" the inside of the housing to accommodate the larger late model birfield bell.

So, that being said, you could then use the Warn hubs I offered before. And we have come full circle

Cheers,
Stump
 
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I'm right in the middle of this process now. What is the deal with the steering arms ? I'm using the knuckles, birfs,and the steering arms. Is there going to be a problem with the arms matching up to the tie rods ? I'm gonna get the fine spline hubs. This is all taking place on a 71 fj40. I'm sorry to hi jack this thread , I'm just learning as I go . The donor parts are from a 82 fj60.
 

Stumpalama

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Alan, Thanks for adding the clarification regarding the diff splines... That will help avoid any confusion when people see "30 spline inners" in other posts they search. Longfield super axles makes an inner/outer axle set that uses 30 splines at the diff and birf mating surfaces. This is a unique application and will not work with stock birfields.

When you look at the picture provided, you can see the course splines on the birfield they look like: ___------___ where later ones look like: /\/\/\/\

I'm right in the middle of this process now. What is the deal with the steering arms ? I'm using the knuckles, birfs,and the steering arms. Is there going to be a problem with the arms matching up to the tie rods ? I'm gonna get the fine spline hubs. This is all taking place on a 71 fj40. I'm sorry to hi jack this thread , I'm just learning as I go . The donor parts are from a 82 fj60.
You need FJ40 "large pattern" steering knuckles in order to keep the FJ40 tierods and tierod ends. FJ60 steering arms and tierods/end are different.
 
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I was under the impression that only Longfields needed the 40 knuckle ground for clearance, but the 60 Birf did not. To be clear, from what I'm reading above that's not the case?

I looked in the tech Links but am not seeing a specific FJ60/62 disc upgrade for an FJ40.

I'm not sure where and exactly how much clearance to grind. Where, exactly, is the interference?

Also, I'm running Warns on my FJ40 now. The 60/62 parts (they're 1982) have Asins. Will they swap onto the 40 now? Or are they 60/62 specific?
 

Stumpalama

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I was under the impression that only Longfields needed the 40 knuckle ground for clearance, but the 60 Birf did not. To be clear, from what I'm reading above that's not the case?

A: The interior of the housing of early FJ40 axles at the end of the axle needs to be ground. Late model FJ40 and all 60/62 birfield and axle parts interchange (except longside inners, of course). Remember, Toyota made as many universal drivetrain parts as they could. MOST of the later LC parts cross all models (except where lengths etc differed). It would not be economical to make unique parts for each model when they have the same mechanics.

I looked in the tech Links but am not seeing a specific FJ60/62 disc upgrade for an FJ40.

A: Here: birf-birfields-birfield-inner-axel-swap-fj60-into-fj40-disk-brake-swap

I'm not sure where and exactly how much clearance to grind. Where, exactly, is the interference?

A: See above link

Also, I'm running Warns on my FJ40 now. The 60/62 parts (they're 1982) have Asins. Will they swap onto the 40 now? Or are they 60/62 specific?

A: My experience is they will work, I have a 1981 FJ40 that had Warn hubs originally. I swapped them for Aisins when I went SOA. My recollection is '79 and earlier birf snouts were longer. Later model FJ40's and all FJ60's were shorter. Mine have a 10mm bolt and fender washer at the end that keep them from slipping into the hub(?). I think I compared the Warn and Aisin Hub and determined the mating parts were the same depth, but the Warn's housing was just longer which also translated to their 180 degree engagement throw vs. the Aisin's shorter 1/4 turn.

Somewhat important note: Some of this is fuzzy logic, as I am pulling from some distant memories. I am confident on the important stuff like fitment.
 
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