True.
3FE - No CEL and no +12V @ B+ (1 Viewer)
This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate
links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.
- Thread starter
- #22
I'm listening. Just trying to decipher the electrical jargon. This is the first time ive ever dug this deep into electronics. This is my first efi vehicle, Im a diesel boy, only a few things electronic there. My roommate in college was an EE. Not me, I went the construction route.....we call them when we need things wired/designed. He works for Honda, but has no clue what makes Toyotas click. I will dig a little deeper later today when the snow stops.
Thanks,
Keith
Thanks,
Keith
- Thread starter
- #23
I am just trying to wrap my head around why I am having these issues now. It ran fine before the head gasket, other than the water/oil mixing and running hot. I just unplugged the wiring for the vsv's, injectors, temp sensors... and flipped it over to the passenger side to do the work. Then put it all back, it just dropped right in. Very discouraging.
Keith
Keith
LS1FJ40
SILVER Star
The fusible links are fuses. They become brittle over time. I have mine on a five year schedule for replacement.
One time in my life did my 80 almost leave me stranded. It was the EFI relay. Since then I've carried two spares and two spare fusible links.
There are countless threads on Mud of "my 80 won't start! I'm panicking!" With a long explanation of all that they have checked and blah blah blah. Then one of us will say "replace the fusible links". Followed by "I checked them. They are fine." At this point I usually shout and punch my computer or throw my phone across the room "replace the damn fusible links!!!"
Three days later and countless hours of stressing they replace the fusible link and say "it runs! I never would've guessed it!"
It seems silly to stress about what it could be when we can eliminate two very obvious and cheap KNOWN issues right off the bat.
Your local Toyota dealer can have it in a day. Call them and order it. Pick it up. Take the 4 minutes to change it out and report back.
One time in my life did my 80 almost leave me stranded. It was the EFI relay. Since then I've carried two spares and two spare fusible links.
There are countless threads on Mud of "my 80 won't start! I'm panicking!" With a long explanation of all that they have checked and blah blah blah. Then one of us will say "replace the fusible links". Followed by "I checked them. They are fine." At this point I usually shout and punch my computer or throw my phone across the room "replace the damn fusible links!!!"
Three days later and countless hours of stressing they replace the fusible link and say "it runs! I never would've guessed it!"
It seems silly to stress about what it could be when we can eliminate two very obvious and cheap KNOWN issues right off the bat.
Your local Toyota dealer can have it in a day. Call them and order it. Pick it up. Take the 4 minutes to change it out and report back.
LS1FJ40
SILVER Star
Not true! I believed him when he said the 1FZ-FE was more enjoyable on the road than the 3FE! He lied!!!!
- Thread starter
- #26
Yay dirt! Sorta.....I now have a cel....my stupid self forgot to even reconnect the EB1 connector, for some reason I tied it up with all of the vsv connectors so that they wouldn't get into the belts.....didn't even notice it, thought it was part of the smog stuff. After hooking that up, I checked the relay connections again and they worked, so I tried the current relay....no cel....jumped 2 & 4.....cel on & 12v to B+....so then I swapped the relay for one behind the ds kick panel.....cel still on...BUT....she still wont fire. She spins, just sounds like the starter turning tho, but I can see the fan blades turning when the starter turns. So I jumped B+ & Fp...pump works. So the next thing that I need to check is spark....is there a trick to check spark by yourself with pretty much no spec tools, remote starter, things like that. Remember, I'm 1400 miles from my shop, I only brought my small tool bag. We are getting there fellows. That light at the end of the tunnel isn't looking like a train after all. Thanks for all the help so far.
PS: I will be ordering a couple fusible links and relays this week.
Keith
PS: I will be ordering a couple fusible links and relays this week.
Keith
Pull your #1 plug, with plug out of head reconnect plug wire, and "lay" it on top of the valve cover, up next to the alternator bracket, and you should be able to watch that plug while trying to start the cruiser. You have to lean and twist, and look thru the crack in the hood, but its doable! Either that or get a inline spark checker that goes between plug and wire. Hell, record it with your phone if you have to, then watch it. Good luck!
If Jonheld is on the job, you have the "best in the business" when it comes to the 3FE!
If Jonheld is on the job, you have the "best in the business" when it comes to the 3FE!
- Thread starter
- #28
I like the recording it thing.....that's not a bad idea. I knew my smart phone would be of some use someday other than surfing the web. I will take a gander at it tomorrow after work. Could too tight of pushrod/valves play any part of it....like being so tight that its not letting the valves open far enough, but not too tight to bend them? The whole assembly comes off in one piece and so I just put it back on as one piece....it seemed pretty snug tho....you couldn't giggle any of the pushrods.....too tight huh?
Keith
Keith
Pushrods open the valves, valve springs close the valves. If the valve clearance is set incorrectly, she would most likely still run, albeit poorly.
You need to check for spark and fuel. Spark can be checked as outlined above. If you slightly crack the cold start injector banjo fitting and fuel sprays out, then you have fuel.
Remember, the fuel pump only runs when you're cranking the starter and when the engine catches. You can bypass the FP logic by jumping B+ to FP on the diagnostic connector, but the FP will run as long as the key in in the ON position. Do that for diagnostics only. Remove the jumper ASAP.
If you have spark and fuel and she won't fire, then it's possible the distributor is 360 out.
You need to check for spark and fuel. Spark can be checked as outlined above. If you slightly crack the cold start injector banjo fitting and fuel sprays out, then you have fuel.
Remember, the fuel pump only runs when you're cranking the starter and when the engine catches. You can bypass the FP logic by jumping B+ to FP on the diagnostic connector, but the FP will run as long as the key in in the ON position. Do that for diagnostics only. Remove the jumper ASAP.
If you have spark and fuel and she won't fire, then it's possible the distributor is 360 out.
Any combustion engine HAS to run (maybe like garbage, but running!) as long as it's getting 3 things..... fuel, fire, and air, you know your getting air, if your getting fire and fuel after checking then start narrowing it down. Like..... what was disturbed? Distributer is the most likely, like Jonheld said, it's fairly common that someone puts them back in either 360 off, or slightly off. Good luck!
- Thread starter
- #31
I will check for that when i get home. Thinking to myself while my guys are digging a hole: if the pushrods/valve train was so tight, Is there a possibility that most or all of the valves being slightly open at the same time? I did have to use the rocker bolts to suck down the rocker assembly to the head. Could the lack of compression due to the barely opened valves be why it only sounds like the starter is turning? I did have my head rebuilt, new springs may be stiffer. Maybe I'm over thinking it.
Thanks,
Keith
Thanks,
Keith
Why don't you check the valve clearance according to the FSM? The specs are also on a sticker under the hood. I would set them to factory specs cold and recheck hot.
If it sounds like the just the starter motor is running when you crank her and the belts are moving and the distributor rotor is turning, then you have no compression. You get the same symptoms when you crank it with no spark plugs installed.
If you can grab a pulley and freely rotate the motor then you have no compression.
If it sounds like the just the starter motor is running when you crank her and the belts are moving and the distributor rotor is turning, then you have no compression. You get the same symptoms when you crank it with no spark plugs installed.
If you can grab a pulley and freely rotate the motor then you have no compression.
- Thread starter
- #33
OK, I will check that as soon as I get a chance. Went looking for the local Toyota dealer for parts after work and ran out of daylight. 5 am comes early so that doesn't leave me much wrench time at night. I did check the FSM for the valve specs and I would say that they are going to be pretty far out. At least its about a 10 min job getting the valve cover off with all of the smog stuff gone.
Keith
Keith
- Thread starter
- #34
No real progress today. Got the valves loosened up a bit and checked for spark. Don't think I'm getting a spark for some reason. It ran before I pulled the head off, so it has to be something got shaken loose or not hooked up. Will check for fuel tomorrow. Got the charger hooked up so I'll have a good battery.
Thanks guys,
K
Thanks guys,
K
- Thread starter
- #35
OK, got in a little early tonight and played around with the cruiser for a few mins. Checked for fuel while cranking....got it. Replaced the cap and rotor (rotor was a little crusty).....still no spark. Ran the codes, got 24, 41, & 51. I know what the codes are per the FSM. But any idea what I would check?
K
K
Can we do a quick recap of where you are right now with diagnostics?
Is the CEL illuminated with the key in the ON position before you crank the starter?
Do you have compression?
Does the distributor rotor spin when you crank the starter?
Is the CEL illuminated with the key in the ON position before you crank the starter?
Do you have compression?
Does the distributor rotor spin when you crank the starter?
- Thread starter
- #37
Cel is on, I can't turn it over by hand and I didn't get a chance to try with a wrench tho. I adjusted the valves/rockers so that they would be slightly sloppier than spec to be certain they were closed. Spark plugs are installed. Wouldnt it sound like a normal engine turning over even if it was low on compression. But this acts like it has zero. And I don't have my compression tool here. It cranked and fired fine before the repair. It didnt really burn any oil either, just would have to top it off every now and then since everything that held a fluid leaked, minus the trans. But did new related seals and gaskets during the repair. Cylinders & pistons still looked good, no scratches in the cylinders, bottom end seemed tight still with no obvious rattles or looseness. I had the head cleaned, rebuilt, and milled .030. Botched head rebuild? Dist and rotor turn, don't seem to have spark tho. Would the dist being 360 off make it sound like this? I've done a couple jobs like this before and never had one sound this way. I'm stumped.
