2F "Boat Anchor" build thread (1 Viewer)

Joined
Feb 19, 2002
Messages
2,564
Location
San Diego
The FJ45lv I have had for a while is finally getting some attention after waiting in the barn for a few years, and it is minus a drive train. Since I am not restoring it yet, but I wanted to make it driveable and work out other bugs, I needed to build a motor for it... something that looked a bit more at home in the engine bay than a 1985 2F, but ran well and had good power.

A temporary motor, that I could rely on to take it to FJ45 runs, and someday when I find a correct vintage F, it will find a home in another project... most likely an FJ55 of later vintage, so I wanted to be able to swap the intake and a valve cover and make it a 2F again...

So, I started with a horrible 2F I got in trade for some parts a while back. A march of 76 2F that had coffee cans of rust and scale in the cooling system and JUST cleaned up with a .030" overbore from standard. some of the worst ring ridge I have seen. It felt like a full .015" on either side.


The plan:
Bore over .030" (which is the same as .75mm FYI)
ITM domed pistons to fit
Reground Cam and lifters(stock grind)
Balanced rotating assembly
Resized rods
Redone head(76 2F)


Periforals:

late F valve cover
F intake and exhaust(needs to be assembled/surfaced)
70 F carb(rebuilt)
2F waterpump/fan
2F double wide pulley
Vacuum advance early distributor(rebuilt)
F engine alternator mounting setup, with reman beck arnley 45amp alternator
New Kyosan fuel pump


EDIT:
MACHINE SHOP AND MAJOR PARTS PRICING:

Bore/hone: (.030" over)
Surface Block: (.010")
Machine Crank (Mains, Thrust and Rods) 125.00
Resize Rods (6 rods) 66.00
Surface Head
Valve Job 120.00
Replace Vavle Seat
Balance rotating assembly 162.00
127_2756.jpg
127_2757.jpg
127_2758.jpg
 
Last edited:

Cruiserdrew

On the way there
SILVER Star
Joined
Mar 15, 2003
Messages
15,924
Location
Sacramento, CA
Keep the build pics coming.

I'd go to FJ60 ignition. Have the distributor recurved for desmog use.

Why don't you want to use the 75-78 aluminum valve cover? It would be appropriate for year and less likely to leak tahn any steel valve cover.
 
Joined
Feb 19, 2002
Messages
2,564
Location
San Diego
One of the things I wanted to make sure would be easy to deal with in the future is the location of the oil pressure sender.

So, I tapped the hole in the oil galley on the LH side of the motor with a 1/8" BSPT so the oil pressure sender is in the stock location for the wiring on the FJ45. when the motor finds a home in a later FJ55, I also have the oilt filter base with the threaded hole, but with a pipe plug in it for now.

I have also come to hate the oil galley end plugs on the front and back of the block since after a trip through the hot tank(which is weak at best in CA) they leak/seep oil. Since I had to remove them anyhow to clean the metal out from the drill and tap, I figured why not see what works in terms of pipe plugs.... Well, a 1/2" NPT is perfect after reaming the opening with the tapered reamer you really HAVE to use to run that big a tap...

The issue here is the depth of the plug. there is a drilled oil passage going to the main bearing on boh the front and rear of the block. Luckily there is just enough room for the pipe plug depth wise, even with the step lip on the block to retain the freeze plug style end cap...

so tapping commenced with the largest tap handle I could find(over 24" across) and a 2"x3" in one of the bores to give leverage. after tapping and checking the depth countless times, the plugs just fit flush without obstructing the oil passage at all! Lucky me... The tap will run threads past the drilled holes, but no worries...as the plug wont make it that far IF you checked and re-checked the depth the plug will screw into...

EDIT: Included pic of rear tapped galley which shows the crank oil passage hole. you can see the threads run past the hole, but the plug, even when flush with the block(needs to be the rear due to bellhousing) does not interfere with the oil passage.
127_2753.jpg
127_2755.jpg
tapped oil galley.jpg
 
Last edited:
Joined
Feb 19, 2002
Messages
2,564
Location
San Diego
Keep the build pics coming.

I'd go to FJ60 ignition. Have the distributor recurved for desmog use.

Why don't you want to use the 75-78 aluminum valve cover? It would be appropriate for year and less likely to leak tahn any steel valve cover.



Distributor: I had it, I was bored and rebuilt it, and it looks a bit more like it belongs in a 1965 cruiser. I am sure shortly it will get pertronixs. I have the same setup in the 73 FJ55 and it has been stone cold reliable for 11 years and over 100k miles.

Valve cover: 2 things: wanted a stamped steel one that looked older, and had a fill cap for oil. secondly, got a great deal ($5) on the straighest steel one I have seen.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Feb 19, 2002
Messages
2,564
Location
San Diego
Next topic:

Balancing the rotating assembly:


Brought the rotating assembly to ARCE's engines to have it balanced. After being told 2 rods were "bent" and 2 others were too far off to balance to the lightest rod I sourced 5 more rods.
After having 5 weeks of no progress at the first shop I dropped the rotating assembly off at, I finally had had enough and took it to another shop that had it done in three days...including resizing the rod big end. which were out by over .001" on a few rods. that would have been bad.

After picking the parts up from Wholesale Automotive Machine, I was impressed. Cleaned, resized and balanced in three days... Turns out none of the rods were bent, but they did match weights of the 11 rods to find the best 6 to balance. Even so, they had to take 15g or so off two rods. Its alot of the bosses on the end of the rod cap...

The crank was surprisingly close compared to what others have dealt with. Apparently the crank was balanced on a day other than friday afternoon in Japan. 20g or so off either end and it was good.


LESSONS:
1: ARCE's Engines in El Cajon, CA is a joke. 5 weeks and 5 extra rods later, I still didnt have a balance job.
2: take the damn weights off the centerforce clutch plate if you want a good balance job.
3: Resize the rods. at $11/rod, its cheap insurance!!!
4: ITM pistons were nearly SPOT on. 5 of the 6 were exactly the same weight, and the 5th was 2 grams out. Pretty damn good for anything other than a custom fully machined piston according to the machine shop.
127_2762.jpg
127_2759.jpg
127_2760.jpg
 
Joined
Feb 19, 2002
Messages
2,564
Location
San Diego
One thing I forgot to mention was the engine stand. I got a cheapo Kragen engine stand and modified it to deal with the extra husky 2F...

bought a 2"x2" .120 wall length of square tube and removed the center beam. Re-welded the end part, left some extra on the far end and bolted it up. I took the old center section and turned it into the front end by drilling to add the swivel casters to it.

Lastly I made a strut to help distribute load to the lower beam without taxing the upright to horizontal joint. got some tabs from the local ORW, some bolts and tube from competition metals in el cajon...

spent some time notching and welding... here are some in process pics.

You can kinda see the end result in the earlier pics, but I am sure there will be a good pic of it later...

EDIT: uploaded pic of completed engine stand. I can sit on the end of the block and it only flexes down about 3/8" inch. should be able to deal with a fully dressed motor.
127_2742.jpg
127_2744.jpg
127_2773.jpg
 
Last edited:
Joined
Feb 19, 2002
Messages
2,564
Location
San Diego
On the crankshaft I forgot to mention that it was turned .010" under... Mains were perfect diameter wise, but someone rode the clutch pedal enough to warrant turning the thrust surface to an oversized thrust bearing, which in all available bearings requires at least the first undersize on diameters. so I ended up with .010" under diameter bearings, and an .015" oversized thrust bearing. I will edit later an ad the Clevite part number for the bearings, but if you need it sooner, its the first OS with a bigger thrust.

FYI in the machinists world(not exactly mathematically, but as far as parts go):

.010" = .25mm
.020" = .50mm
.030" = .75mm
.040" = 1.00mm
and so on. Never really thought about it, but its a good thing to know because there is no standard nomenclature when it comes to a metric engine in a standard world. some things are in mm and others in inches. hopefully that helps out.
 
Joined
Feb 19, 2002
Messages
2,564
Location
San Diego
Camshaft time:

I got a reground cam from Craigslist. I know, whats the grind? Guy that was selling it worked at a machine shop and swore up and down that it was a standard grind, so it was worth a shot at $75 with 12 reground lifters.

While hunting for a cam, I got another ground by schnieder in san diego for another 2F(TBI EFI) I will be building after this one, and got quite a lesson in what to do and not to do cam wise....

First: non OEM overseas lifters are a crap shoot. If they are solid, and not hollow like OEM ones, it just a whole lot more load on the valve springs and cam. They should also have a not visible to the naked eye but clearly measureable convex mating surface. put to lifters cam surface to cam surface and they should rock. thats about all the convex you need. less is bad. Schnieder would rather regrind OEM than sell chinese because of the improper hardening issues, which will destroy a cam in seconds.

Second: Toyota cams have horrible overlap issues. most regrinders work within the confines of the origninal grind to cure this, but only a significantly welded or reduced base circle cam can correct this. Last option is a new blank, which are scarce....

Third: You have to run a cam specific break in lube(a grease) with plenty of zinc on it for startup. Most any cam lube will have it, as will most assembly lube. Problem with assembly lube is that it tends to drip off before the startup and leaves the cam less protected. Modern oil formulas lack "ZZDP", a zinc based lubricant found in older less emissions compliant oil and that is what kept flat tappet cams alive. Running without it(in additive form) will accelerate cam wear. Many companies sell high zinc content oil additives.

ITM make a solid steel cam gear(part number 50060), which was only $39 from the machine shop supplier. not a bad insurance to avert the knocking cam gear with the worn out elastomer OEM gear. Looking at it, and measuring to the best of my abilities, it is spot on, tooth thickness is right, keyway timing is spot on, and press fit is perfect.

I decided that it was worth the few cases of beer to do it now, rather than re-do it later, at the cost of a timing gear, gasket set, and of course the beer required to power the operation. Never mind the vet costs for the dog getting into the tasty green koolaid on the driveway after such an evolution.


After you press on the thrust plate, and gear, you need to check the thrust clearance with a feeler gauge. .008" is the limit, and I thought for sure I was going to need to get a new thrust plate, but it measured out at .005"
127_2761.jpg
127_2764.jpg
 
Last edited:
Joined
Feb 19, 2002
Messages
2,564
Location
San Diego
Cleaning the block, crank and other parts:

While I dont have any pics of it in process(hard to get anyone to take pics of cleaning a crank) this is stupid crucial to getting the build right...

Call summit racing and order the engine cleaning brush kit. I ordered it so long ago I have no idea what the price or part number is, but its worth it. It comes will long bore brushes, short ones, small ones and big ones.

Simple green and hot water makes a good solution that after the engine has been in the dirty ass hot tank, can still cut though the left over grime and wash off the dirty dried on hot tank solution. you NEED to get rid of this. while it looks clean its still dried on sludge, and whatnot.

Pop the oil galley plug out with a slide hammer and dry wall screw, and clean them out. You'd be shocked how much stuff is still sedimented in there.

clean the crank journals, the fly weights, and OF COURSE the oil passages. you need a good small brush this. Harbor frieght has a good assmorment kit for cheap of the metal brushes. pic the right size or it gets pretty stuck in there trying to get it back out...

Wash the oil and everything else off with the bore brushes and a good scrub brush. Your hands will get s***loads of cuts and scratches, but it needs to be clean. The smallest spec of dirt can ruin a bearing...

rinse off with water and blow dry with compressed air.

Simple green seems to have a pretty good anit rust agent, so it doesnt flash rust really at all, if you are quick about drying it off.

After its dried, I will clean out the oil passages one last time with the brushes and brake cleaner to flush any last bits out.

then its time to knock in the freeze plugs and button up the oil galley.

Lightly oil the bores and head gasket surface on the block, and head, and the journals on the crank. WD40 works well for short term, but if you need to lay it up for a while I would look for a better oil, maybe some CLP for you gun folks...
 

Trollhole

THC
Supporting Vendor
Moderator
Joined
Mar 6, 2005
Messages
20,986
Location
Mauldin, SC
Great thread. Don't think anyone has gone through the cleaning process.

So basically your building a 2f in (F) sheeps clothing. I like it.

Glad to know the ITM domes are available. I kept hearing they were impossible to find.

Do you have any prices on the machine shop costs or the pistons? Curious what the other side charges.
 
Joined
Jul 2, 2002
Messages
1,373
Location
New Hampshire
I'm glad to know dome's are available again. I had a heck of a time getting a set for my rebuild a few months ago. Some of you may recall I wound up getting a .040 set from SOR but what I actually got was 3 different brands of pistons of varying weights. My machinist was able to get them all balanced but it was a bit more work than typically required. Interesting info on the cam and lifters too. I had read about the overlap in the Downey catalog, but didn't think much of it. I had my lifters resurfaced and cam ground by Delta and so far I am quite pleased. To anyone who is rebuilding a 2F I have to say by far the best investment you can make is to have it balanced. I can't believe how smooth mine is.
 
Joined
Feb 19, 2002
Messages
2,564
Location
San Diego
I am going to:eek: total up the build and edit the first post once I am done. Lots of the parts I had laying around in terms of the external stuff.


ITM domes are available in certain sizes. .030" are hard to find, though.
 
Joined
Feb 19, 2002
Messages
2,564
Location
San Diego
Cylinder Head:

The head was rough, just like the block and had tons of scale and rust, which required baking in the machine shops aluminum head pre heat oven to break down the scale. following that it was back to the hot tank and then machine work.

First order of business was a magnaflux test, and then tapping the oil passage plug. A 1/16" NPT tap was used to thread the tapered threads, and a steel allen plug was inserted with some thread sealer.

The head was surfaced to .020" off, to bump up compression a bit, but mainly to take care of some bad corrosion on the block.

Valve job: It needed a few new valves(2 exhaust and one intake), as well as one exhaust valve seat, which had a wierd notch in the seat surface...

All twelve valve guides got replaced, apparently the valves wear the guides out, so valves were fine, but guides were trashed.

After that, springs were checked for tension and height and all failed so 12 new springs were sourced.


Later "cap" style valve stem seals were used(the type that look like an inside out oil seal with the small coil spring.

I still have to knock in new brass freeze plugs, but its ready to go other than that...

Coolant temp sender will go in one of the rear holes, as well as a later 2F heater pipe elbow. The last hole will be plugged with the hex plug pictured towards the rear of the head.
127_2765.jpg
127_2768.jpg
127_2767.jpg
 
Joined
Feb 19, 2002
Messages
2,564
Location
San Diego
Oil pump rebuild:

I didnt feel like spending $100+ on a new oil pump, and having to trim the baffles in the oil pan to accomodate the updated oilpump with the integral pickup, so I opened up the service manual and took some measurements to see if the old pump was servicable...

As it turns out, it was all within specs according to the 2F FSM. Measurements were compared to OEM specs.

The only thing wrong with the pump was wear in the endplate which is easily corrected on a surfacing plate at the machine shop. The rotors wear into the plate and leave small shallow circles in the endplate generally about .001"-.002" deep. this ruins the end clearance, but sanding down the flat surface on the end plate corrects wear.

As for the pump body, I first surfaced the ends of the gears and then measured clearance, and with that FSM end clearance measurement, sanded the end of the pump body a touch to get the end clearance just right.

Rotor tip clearance and backlash were withing tolerance, so after lighty porting the passages in the end plate I cleaned and reassembled. Anyone who has tinkered with an oil pump will know the stock screws are s***. A trip to the local ACE netted correct hardened allen head screws and lock washers. with some lock tight and an allen wrench it was done.

If you need, the two gears are still available from toyota, and are about $43 for the pair, certainly less than a new pump.

I would recommend blueprinting the pump, and checking clearances, just for piece of mind. Its easy and it will give you an idea of whats going on in the pump...
oil pump notes_r1.jpg
127_2763.jpg
 
Joined
Feb 19, 2002
Messages
2,564
Location
San Diego
Got the crank in, and with a little cursing, its home for good.

Used clevite bearings, which seem to call for a bigger oil clearance than what Toyota would like. OEM calls for .0008"-.0017" and mine plastigauged at .002"-.0025" which is well within what the Clevite book calls for. their max is .0036" which is double OEM plus some.

So, lesson here is to INSIST on keeping the oil clearance tight when having the crank re-grinder turn the crank. there is a range of about .002" that is okay with the bearing manufacturer, and my crank grinder set it right in the middle, which is spot on with what they plastiguage out at.

anyhow, cleanliness is key in this operation. clean and re-clean the bearing surfaces, the block surfaces and the crank. blow off any lint from rags with some air, and install the bearings, in the block.

As you can tell, the bearings are specific to each particular journal, and unless you tried, youd have a hard time messing that up.

Just remember to put the bearings with the oil holes on the block and not the cap. In my case two sets of bearings had oil holes in both mating halves, so it doesnt matter there.

Liberally apply some good assembly lube and place the crank in the block. BE very careful to lower in evenly and not put one side in first. this is a great way to damage the bearings, particularly the thrust bearing.

now that the crank is in , time to install the main caps. I use a bit of RTV on the corners of the front and rear caps to prevent oil from seeping out past the pan gasket by traveling through the split between the block and cap. use very sparingly, as it gets squished out, so a small amount smeared on the corner between the oil pan gasket groove and the rear main seal lip will do.

I sneak the rear main seal in while the rear cap is off, carefully seating it so the lip isnt tweaked, and then seat the cap on it, adjusting while cinching the cap down.

Torque to the appropriate amount, and your done.
rear main.jpg
bearings installed1.jpg
main bearings.jpg
 
Joined
Feb 19, 2002
Messages
2,564
Location
San Diego
FYI: Check the length and fit of the torx screws folks recommend for the timing cover plate...

Now that I am working on sticking the cam in, I was in the test fit mode, to figure out what screws went where, so I didnt ruin the OEM toyota timing cover backing plate gasket I use in place of the Fel-pro one.

As I was test fitting the torx screws I noticed they were tight, but the plate was not. So I backed one out thinking I might have something in the hole, or worse cross threaded... neither was the case.

So I compared the original flat tipped screw to the new torx screw, and discovered the torx screw was about 1-1.25mm longer and lacked the slightly convex point of the original, and I think that was causing it to bind in the block before fully clamping the gasket and plate.

Just something to check, at least with early blocks, as I am sure tapped depth varies from block to block. The timing plate would leak like crazy if you didnt have it fully clamped to the block since the oiling passage to the cam gear squirter is sealed by the gasket.
torx screw.jpg
 

Trollhole

THC
Supporting Vendor
Moderator
Joined
Mar 6, 2005
Messages
20,986
Location
Mauldin, SC
Very very nice. Love the oil pump rebuild.


Did you notice any casting nibs inside the rocker cover area? Just wondered if it was on later blocks only.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top Bottom