- Thread starter
- #161
Fortunately, the actual surfaces for the bearing races seem fine and I doubt this ugliness has any real effect on the knuckle doing it's job.
1997 FZJ80 Rehabilitation (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Wrencher93
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Nice work!
Looks like a clean, organized and efficient setup. Your knuckles also look pretty clean to start with, except for that scarring. I agree that the scarring looks irrelevant in terms of functionality.
Looks like a clean, organized and efficient setup. Your knuckles also look pretty clean to start with, except for that scarring. I agree that the scarring looks irrelevant in terms of functionality.
- Thread starter
- #163
I also tried to remove the front 3rd member because I was going to reseal it. I had noticed what looked like gear oil seeping out around the bottom few nuts on the housing. Well, after removing the nuts and attempting to break the 3rd free of the axle without success - I decided to leave well enough alone and torqued it back down after cleaning up the hardware. It is worth noting that the gear oil I drained was grey - most likely from mixing with the knuckle grease but also possibly from being old and unchanged. The oil I've seen on the exterior of the 3rd isn't grey, it's amber - so either motor oil or just extra thick spot of the fluid film I applied. On top of all that, plenty of oil came out when I drained the diff so I clearly wasn't in danger of losing lubrication. Either way, I don't think I will be leaking any gear oil when I refill and that's good enough for me.
- Thread starter
- #164
Thanks! And yes they cleaned up pretty good over all. There are a couple small spots of surface rust on the passenger knuckle. Not sure how that happened since it's outboard (read inside knuckle housing when assembled). I guess maybe some water got in there and sat for a few days. It's not bad though. Some fine steel wool should clean it up.
- Thread starter
- #165
The interior of the knuckles looked better than I expected in terms of volume of grease and consistency (lack of birf soup). Whoever serviced these last just used moly for the wheel bearings as well as the birfs. Doesn't really bother me but I'm going to use separate grease products for the wheel bearings (see FSM) when I reassemble everything.
The goodies waiting to be put in tomorrow (I hope).
The goodies waiting to be put in tomorrow (I hope).
@Wrencher93
I don't recall if it's come up in this thread but are you up to speed on the non FSM wheel bearing torque methods? If not, in a nutshell, many of us torque the front wheel bearing inner nut to 25 ft/lbs (roughly) and then lock the outer down with the normal 45 ft/lbs (or whatever the FSM calls for). This is different approach to bearing preload than what the FSM recommends and I think it's a much better method to use and proven safe by the collective wisdom of many.
More specifically I run the inner nut up to 30 something ft/lbs and spin the hub a full turn forward and backward a few times. I recheck this initial high-torque and respin a few times to make sure that the bearings are seated. After the bearings are seated I back off the inner nut a bit and then torque to 25 ft/lbs. I repeat the spinning a few full turns each direction and recheck the 25 ft/lbs torque then proceed with the outer nut torque.
Some folks run higher or lower inner nut torque values. One factor is that larger tires may benefit from 5 or 10 more ft/lbs of torque on the bearings.
I don't recall if it's come up in this thread but are you up to speed on the non FSM wheel bearing torque methods? If not, in a nutshell, many of us torque the front wheel bearing inner nut to 25 ft/lbs (roughly) and then lock the outer down with the normal 45 ft/lbs (or whatever the FSM calls for). This is different approach to bearing preload than what the FSM recommends and I think it's a much better method to use and proven safe by the collective wisdom of many.
More specifically I run the inner nut up to 30 something ft/lbs and spin the hub a full turn forward and backward a few times. I recheck this initial high-torque and respin a few times to make sure that the bearings are seated. After the bearings are seated I back off the inner nut a bit and then torque to 25 ft/lbs. I repeat the spinning a few full turns each direction and recheck the 25 ft/lbs torque then proceed with the outer nut torque.
Some folks run higher or lower inner nut torque values. One factor is that larger tires may benefit from 5 or 10 more ft/lbs of torque on the bearings.
- Thread starter
- #167
I wasn't aware of this, thanks! I'll try it out since I'm on 35's.
@Wrencher93
It's hard to give a precise number on what folks use since it seems to vary. Here's a thread with some info and if you search you can find many others:
forum.ih8mud.com
From what I know 10-30 ish ft/lbs may be used by folks out there. I aim for 25 ft/lbs but I also check that torque a few times and rotate the hub in between. That may mean that my 25 is equivalent to a single torque of 30 or more?
My experience has been good using 25 ft/lb in all but one case. In one case 25 ft/lbs showed a bit of play after a few thousand miles so I upped that wheel to 30 ft/lbs. and it held until the next service was needed. In that case where 25 ft/lbs may not have been enough the spindle had a slight groove in one spot that I think threw the OG torque off a bit but it could have been something else.
Regardless of what number you pick you'll want to feel how the hub spins during the process. Note that you sometimes get better feedback from very slowly turning the hub though you can torque the bearings down extra tight and feel the difference at any rotation speed. You'll also want to check the hub temps by touch every now and then after driving. You should also want to periodically lift each of the wheels from time to time to shake the tires and check for play/looseness. I try to check mine within a thousand miles or less of a service and then again annually or when it's convenient. As long as your bearings aren't running hot and there is no play/looseness you will probably be good to go within a range of preload values.
It's hard to give a precise number on what folks use since it seems to vary. Here's a thread with some info and if you search you can find many others:
Fixing Front Wheel Bearing Preload
Hey Team, I did my front birf's a couple weeks back, and put the truck on stands this weekend to check for play in the front wheel bearings. With both front wheels still on, and using their weight to try and rock the front hubs on the spindle (not being crazy forceful, but trying to get some...
forum.ih8mud.com
From what I know 10-30 ish ft/lbs may be used by folks out there. I aim for 25 ft/lbs but I also check that torque a few times and rotate the hub in between. That may mean that my 25 is equivalent to a single torque of 30 or more?
My experience has been good using 25 ft/lb in all but one case. In one case 25 ft/lbs showed a bit of play after a few thousand miles so I upped that wheel to 30 ft/lbs. and it held until the next service was needed. In that case where 25 ft/lbs may not have been enough the spindle had a slight groove in one spot that I think threw the OG torque off a bit but it could have been something else.
Regardless of what number you pick you'll want to feel how the hub spins during the process. Note that you sometimes get better feedback from very slowly turning the hub though you can torque the bearings down extra tight and feel the difference at any rotation speed. You'll also want to check the hub temps by touch every now and then after driving. You should also want to periodically lift each of the wheels from time to time to shake the tires and check for play/looseness. I try to check mine within a thousand miles or less of a service and then again annually or when it's convenient. As long as your bearings aren't running hot and there is no play/looseness you will probably be good to go within a range of preload values.
Last edited:
- Thread starter
- #170
I just found another thread referencing bearing preload and spindle nut torque. I agree that the values people use seem to vary but the general consensus seems to be 4-30 ft-lb. Since I have large tires and a fairly heavy 80 (armor, winch, RTT, etc.) I think I will torque the inner nut to at least 15ft-lb, maybe 20-25. I understand that the FSM calls for 4ft-lb after seating the bearings and I'm sure that would probably work if done properly. I also don't see the harm in snugging the bearings down a little more to ensure they are firmly in place given the higher forces they are subjected to with large tires.@Wrencher93
It's hard to give a precise number on what folks use since it seems to vary. Here's a thread with some info and if you search you can find many others:
Fixing Front Wheel Bearing Preload
Hey Team, I did my front birf's a couple weeks back, and put the truck on stands this weekend to check for play in the front wheel bearings. With both front wheels still on, and using their weight to try and rock the front hubs on the spindle (not being crazy forceful, but trying to get some...
From what I know 10-30 ish ft/lbs may be used by folks out there. I aim for 25 ft/lbs but I also check that torque a few times and rotate the hub in between. That may mean that my 25 is equivalent to a single torque of 30 or more?
My experience has been good using 25 ft/lb in all but one cases. In one case 25 ft/lbs showed a bit of play after a few thousand miles so I upped that wheel to 30 ft/lbs. and it held until the next service was needed. In that case where 25 ft/lbs may not have been enough the spindle had a slight groove in one spot that I think threw the OG torque off a bit but it could have been something else.
Regardless of what number you pick you'll want to feel how the hub spins during the process. Note that you sometimes get better feedback from very slowly turning the hub though you can torque the bearings down extra tight and feel the difference at any rotation speed. You'll also want to check the hub temps by touch every now and then after you are driving again. You should also want to periodically lift each of the wheels from time to time to shake the tires and check for play/looseness. I try to check mine within a thousand miles or less of a service and then again annually or when it's convenient. As long as your bearings aren't running hot and there is no play/looseness you will probably be good to go within a range of preload values.
I run 30 lb-ft on the inner nut and I'm on 33" tires. Would not be a problem to go to 35 lb-ft.
- Thread starter
- #172
Cool, then I'll probably go for 30. Seems like a lot of people have done this and haven't seen any adverse effects. Thanks for the data point. Always useful to hear from people that have BTDT.
- Thread starter
- #173
I'm really glad this got brought up because I hadn't even considered it. Of all the stuff I've read on this forum (and there's been a lot) I hadn't ever run into the spindle nut torque debate. Probably showing my lack of experience with that comment but hey, ya gotta learn somehow.... 
sbman
Supporting Vendor
One thing I would do is replace the lower knuckle studs, cones and lock washers. I've had to re-do the inner axle seal on the passenger side TWICE due to those stupid studs backing off and breaking. The first time, when I overhauled the entire axle, I re-assembled using the original hardware, careful to make sure everything was cleaned and torqued properly. The studs backed out, broke and I had birf soup to deal with. So, all new studs, cones, lock washers, and nuts I Installed per the FSM with proper torques, clean parts, etc.... All done precisely and methodically. Ended up with broken studs and birf soup again after a while. GRRRR. Third time, all new studs, nuts, cones, washers. I installed the studs with red loctite and the nuts with blue loctite. Proper torques and paint marked the nuts and spindle so I can inspect for rotation on a regular basis, so far no issues.
The drivers side has never been an issue.
The drivers side has never been an issue.
- Thread starter
- #175
I can respect that, but it will be original hardware for me this time. I don't have the time to source new and my front axle is already in pieces in my garage. I will definitely add that to the list for next time though.
sbman
Supporting Vendor
That's understandable. Consider paint marking the studs/nuts against the knuckle for inspection and checking for rotation. Knowing they have not turned at a glance is good.
- Thread starter
- #177
I may have gotten a little carried away cleaning the knuckle parts...
- Thread starter
- #178
Still need to take some steel wool to some of the mating surfaces. Got a little surface rust that needs attention.
- Thread starter
- #179
Ok so upon inspection I was pleased to find that all of the bearings I took out (wheel and trunion) were Koyo. I have all new Koyos to go back in so I guess it doesn't really matter except the knowledge that whoever serviced the axle seemed to know what they were doing.
Is there any wisdom in keeping the wheel bearings as spares? I kept track of which bearings went to which races. Wasn't sure if keeping them was a terrible idea.
Is there any wisdom in keeping the wheel bearings as spares? I kept track of which bearings went to which races. Wasn't sure if keeping them was a terrible idea.
- Thread starter
- #180
Separate issue but still knuckle related: I had a drive flange stud back out of the hub when I was stripping down the driver side. I was going to just use the double nut method and torque it back in but then I got to wondering about loctite. Blue loctite be. A good bet here or would it be unnecessary?
