1997 FZJ80 Rehabilitation

[BILT4ME]

Is it time for a new throttle cable?

Many need replaced. I thought mine was fine until I started having a slight stick at idle. After changing it, it is smooth as can be and it fixed my cruise control issue of randomly shutting off.

 

[Wrencher93]

I think I mentioned this above in one of the posts, but maybe I left it out. Yes, I just installed a brand new OEM accelerator cable. The pedal response isn't the issue - at least not in terms of being "sticky". It's smooth, it just seems to run out before the engine gets past 3100 rpm. I'll look at the trans cable and check the FSM for adjustment. Hopefully that fixes it.

 

[Wrencher93]

Now my cruise control cable, that sucker is crispy..but I'm not worried about it right now. The current issue wasn't related to cruise control.

 

[Wrencher93]

OK so looking ahead to the rest of the remaining maintenance (bushings and brakes) I'm at a bit of a crossroads. The 80 is back together and running well. I'm still going to fiddle with the transmission cable on the TB but other than that the engine related stuff is done for now. The part where I'm stuck, mentally at least, is what to do "first" out of the remaining jobs. Here's what's left:
1.)Replace all suspension bushings and relevant hardware
2.) Install Landtank caster plates
3.) Rebuild brake calipers
4.) Install new OEM soft lines (all 7)
5.) Install new Advics master cylinder
5.) Install new rotors
7.) Optional axle and knuckle service (have the wheel bearing and knuckle service kits - just not 100% sure if I need them.)

So the question is - what first? I have a bit of a darty tendency at highway speeds when hitting uneven pavement/small bumps. It's not as bad as when I bought the vehicle thanks to adjusting toe and the set screw on the steering gear box. I imagine that the new bushings and caster plates will help but it's possible that there's something else wrong. I was going to inspect the TRE's and try to evaluate the health of the wheel bearings using a couple threads here on Mud. If I don't find any play in the bearings I was just going to top of the knuckles with grease and call it a day. I have to remove the old rotors but I don't see any reason to swap everything out right now unless I suspect play in the bearings. Is that a reasonable thought? Comments welcome from those of you that have dealt with similar situations.

My thoughts on the order of precedence are as follows:
1.) Check for play in wheel bearings
2.) Check torque on steering arm nuts
3.) Inspect TRE's
4.) If no issues in steps 1-3, top off knuckles with grease
5.) Pull calipers off truck for rebuild
6.) After calipers are rebuilt, replace soft lines with new and replace rotors with new
7.) Install new MC
8.) Reinstall calipers and bleed brakes
9.) Ensure brakes are fully bled and working properly
10.) Pull suspension links and arms one at a time, cut and press old bushings, press in new bushings, reinstall, rinse repeat
11.) Install caster plates when reinstalling front radius arms, weld in place per Landtank instructions
12.) Make sure to NOT torque suspension links and arms until truck is back at ride height

Anybody see holes in this plan? I'd like to smooth the wrinkles BEFORE I begin rather than ruin these new parts or doing it bass-ackwards and cursing a blue streak that can be heard a couple blocks away.

 

[Wrencher93]

Thread bump. I was hoping for some feedback on that last post. I know it's a book but the devil is in the details.

 

[Pierce]

I need to do all this same stuff to mine. I have however already installed the landtank caster correction brackets. They fixed 92% of my dartiness. Went from having to drive with full attention because any little input turned into a major output to “good enough”.

Bought me time to do the rest while mostly restoring driving enjoyment.

 

[Wrencher93]

I need to do all this same stuff to mine. I have however already installed the landtank caster correction brackets. They fixed 92% of my dartiness. Went from having to drive with full attention because any little input turned into a major output to “good enough”.

Bought me time to do the rest while mostly restoring driving enjoyment.

Good to know! That is what I'm hoping for as well. My 80 is plenty better than it was but I hope the plates will improve it further.

 

[jpoole]

It's a good list but here are some thoughts on it:

• You've got to pull your front hubs to replace the front rotors. This puts you close to a lot of service items that you may regret not doing now. Big questions are how many miles/years since you did a knuckle reseal and trunion bearing replace?

If you have time I think you should go ahead and replace the trunion bearings, fully reseal the knuckles, locktite/torque steering arm studs/nuts, replace anything else that needs it, etc... Overdrive the inner axle seals when in there. You don't have to pull the relay/tie rod ends from the steering arms if you don't want but if they are loose then it could be a good time to replace those also. In my opinion, besides the grease-fest-mess once the hub is off the rest is relatively easy. Getting the drive flange off can be the trickiest step if you don't have that process down. etc.

Knuckle rebuilds, if done correctly last about 60k miles if I'm remembering the service intervals correctly so you may be good for a while yet. If you have wandering/steering issues though and do not know the age of your trunion bearings then they are suspect in my opinion as they lead a hard life and unlike other bearings on the 80 that can last seemingly forever (wheel bearings for instance) the trunions do seem to wear out.

This seems like a great thread on rotor replacement though I just glanced at it:

Replacing Front Brake Pads and Rotors on a 1994 FJ80

I couldn't find anything I could use on the FAQ, so I decided to start a thread. I had the wheel off to replace my stuck starter, and I noticed that I needed front brakes. The pictures I took were as I assembled, so I posted them in reverse order. Fitst thing to do to remove the calipers is...

forum.ih8mud.com

On the brake front, if you don't know the age of your LSPV valve, and plan to keep it, I'd consider replacing it now as well. I didn't my first time around and then had to redo the brake flush on mine. Also, once you've rebuilt all calipers, replaced all soft lines and replaced the master the lspv is the odd man out so replacing it makes sense in my opinion. Another quick note, when I flush the brakes on my 80 now I use a pressure bleeder plus pedal pumping at each wheel and the lspv. Additionally I finish by bleeding each line on the ABS module as a way to run the last fluid out of my pressure bleeder and to get the master level down to where I want it. I flush the under-hood area generously with water while bleeding the ABS module to keep the brake fluid off the paint and from sticking around. Obviously you want to be done with all other bleeding first so that you don't have to lay in water once you start the abs bleed.

Finally, I had good luck with melting/heating the bushing centers out using a torch and then using a sawzall to cut out the shells. I also used an air hammer to push the shells out once they were cut through. I used a press to reinstall. All of this went smoothly but did take some time. I also scuffed/degreased and painted each suspension piece when it was out which didn't add much time but was pleasurable at least.

Broadly, I'd likely do things in this order:

-front-axle service w new rotors then drive/test including hitting gravel and actuating the ABS - leaving front calipers connected/intact during this step​

-rebuild calipers, replace soft lines, master and lspv along with any remaining brake work, flushes then drive/test​

-replace any loose steering links, tighten your steering box if needed​

-replace all bushings​

-go in for alignment check​

​

​

 

[Wrencher93]

It's a good list but here are some thoughts on it:

• You've got to pull your front hubs to replace the front rotors. This puts you close to a lot of service items that you may regret not doing now. Big questions are how many miles/years since you did a knuckle reseal and trunion bearing replace?

If you have time I think you should go ahead and replace the trunion bearings, fully reseal the knuckles, locktite/torque steering arm studs/nuts, replace anything else that needs it, etc... Overdrive the inner axle seals when in there. You don't have to pull the relay/tie rod ends from the steering arms if you don't want but if they are loose then it could be a good time to replace those also. In my opinion, besides the grease-fest-mess once the hub is off the rest is relatively easy. Getting the drive flange off can be the trickiest step if you don't have that process down. etc.

Knuckle rebuilds, if done correctly last about 60k miles if I'm remembering the service intervals correctly so you may be good for a while yet. If you have wandering/steering issues though and do not know the age of your trunion bearings then they are suspect in my opinion as they lead a hard life and unlike other bearings on the 80 that can last seemingly forever (wheel bearings for instance) the trunions do seem to wear out.

This seems like a great thread on rotor replacement though I just glanced at it:

Replacing Front Brake Pads and Rotors on a 1994 FJ80

I couldn't find anything I could use on the FAQ, so I decided to start a thread. I had the wheel off to replace my stuck starter, and I noticed that I needed front brakes. The pictures I took were as I assembled, so I posted them in reverse order. Fitst thing to do to remove the calipers is...

forum.ih8mud.com

On the brake front, if you don't know the age of your LSPV valve, and plan to keep it, I'd consider replacing it now as well. I didn't my first time around and then had to redo the brake flush on mine. Also, once you've rebuilt all calipers, replaced all soft lines and replaced the master the lspv is the odd man out so replacing it makes sense in my opinion. Another quick note, when I flush the brakes on my 80 now I use a pressure bleeder plus pedal pumping at each wheel and the lspv. Additionally I finish by bleeding each line on the ABS module as a way to run the last fluid out of my pressure bleeder and to get the master level down to where I want it. I flush the under-hood area generously with water while bleeding the ABS module to keep the brake fluid off the paint and from sticking around. Obviously you want to be done with all other bleeding first so that you don't have to lay in water once you start the abs bleed.

Finally, I had good luck with melting/heating the bushing centers out using a torch and then using a sawzall to cut out the shells. I also used an air hammer to push the shells out once they were cut through. I used a press to reinstall. All of this went smoothly but did take some time. I also scuffed/degreased and painted each suspension piece when it was out which didn't add much time but was pleasurable at least.

Broadly, I'd likely do things in this order:

-front-axle service w new rotors then drive/test including hitting gravel and actuating the ABS - leaving front calipers connected/intact during this step​

-rebuild calipers, replace soft lines, master and lspv along with any remaining brake work, flushes then drive/test​

-replace any loose steering links, tighten your steering box if needed​

-replace all bushings​

-go in for alignment check​

​

​

Thanks for the advice. One thing I forgot to mention is my ABS light is now on and it was not before. I don't know if one of the sensors is dirty or what. The reason I'm replacing the MC is the reservoir is old and beginning to crack. The fluid level has been slowly dropping recently which means something somewhere is leaking brake fluid. No idea what it is at this point. Not sure if that affects your opinion at all but I figured I'd probably find the leak while replacing everything anyway. Hoping the ABS light will go off. Not really wanting to deep dive down that rabbit hole.

 

[Wrencher93]

I will look into the LSVP. Running tight on budget at this point though. That being said, I don't want to do this twice.

 

[jpoole]

Pulling and cleaning the 4 abs sensors is trivial/easy and a good thing to do periodically. Be sure to clean the holes/areas where they mount as well. What you want is for the tips to not have metallic debris on them and you also want for the sensors to be fully seated and not held high by grit/etc.

If something changed or was done just before the ABS came on it may be a good indicator of why the light is on now. Cleaning/seating sensors and replacing soft brake components may have no impact on the abs light being on.

Addressing a leaky brake system is very high priority before you drive this thing much more. From the bits of info I'm picking up it seems like the right time to do all of the work we are discussing.

I skipped the lspv on my first brake svc for the same reason, it's over $100 and seems unimportant. Turns out mine was leaking slightly and non-functional but I didn't realize it until I looked closely. Here's the part number: 47910-60090

Post up if you need any part numbers. I've done all of these tasks fairly recently and have the part numbers and some info on cheap parts sources as well. I saved a lot by shopping around and sourcing batches of parts from different places though it's time consuming to do all of that. Also, with international sources like Partsouq you are better off buying more at once typically to save on shipping though you have to keep the total purchase amt low enough to avoid extra fees. etc. Anyway, I'm guessing you have most of your parts already but wanted to shine a light on what I think is a big part of the DIY auto repair hobby which parts planning and sourcing.

 

[jpoole]

Oh yeah, get under your rig and squeeze the rubber cover on the lspv and arm. If it's leaking that will be full of brake fluid and fluid will squirt out. There is no rebuild kit to my knowledge and if it's leaking that will answer your question on replacing it. Start spraying the mounting hardware with penetrating oil now if it is going to come out.

 

[Wrencher93]

Pulling and cleaning the 4 abs sensors is trivial/easy and a good thing to do periodically. Be sure to clean the holes/areas where they mount as well. What you want is for the tips to not have metallic debris on them and you also want for the sensors to be fully seated and not held high by grit/etc.

If something changed or was done just before the ABS came on it may be a good indicator of why the light is on now. Cleaning/seating sensors and replacing soft brake components may have no impact on the abs light being on.

Addressing a leaky brake system is very high priority before you drive this thing much more. From the bits of info I'm picking up it seems like the right time to do all of the work we are discussing.

I skipped the lspv on my first brake svc for the same reason, it's over $100 and seems unimportant. Turns out mine was leaking slightly and non-functional but I didn't realize it until I looked closely. Here's the part number: 47910-60090

Post up if you need any part numbers. I've done all of these tasks fairly recently and have the part numbers and some info on cheap parts sources as well. I saved a lot by shopping around and sourcing batches of parts from different places though it's time consuming to do all of that. Also, with international sources like Partsouq you are better off buying more at once typically to save on shipping though you have to keep the total purchase amt low enough to avoid extra fees. etc. Anyway, I'm guessing you have most of your parts already but wanted to shine a light on what I think is a big part of the DIY auto repair hobby which parts planning and sourcing.

I have all of my parts except for the LSVP (if I choose to order it). I shopped around as well and used a mixture of suppliers, including Partsouq. Thanks for the pointer on checking the LSVP for a leak. I will definitely do that. I can afford to fix anything that truly needs it - just can't waste any money with this move coming up. I also don't want to *need* to touch anything critical on the 80 after the move except normal maintenance (oil changes, etc.). I will be in VA after the first of the year and it's going to be WAY too cold to be crawling around under the truck trying to fix this crap - so I'm fixing it now.

 

[Wrencher93]

It's a good list but here are some thoughts on it:

• You've got to pull your front hubs to replace the front rotors. This puts you close to a lot of service items that you may regret not doing now. Big questions are how many miles/years since you did a knuckle reseal and trunion bearing replace?

If you have time I think you should go ahead and replace the trunion bearings, fully reseal the knuckles, locktite/torque steering arm studs/nuts, replace anything else that needs it, etc... Overdrive the inner axle seals when in there. You don't have to pull the relay/tie rod ends from the steering arms if you don't want but if they are loose then it could be a good time to replace those also. In my opinion, besides the grease-fest-mess once the hub is off the rest is relatively easy. Getting the drive flange off can be the trickiest step if you don't have that process down. etc.

Knuckle rebuilds, if done correctly last about 60k miles if I'm remembering the service intervals correctly so you may be good for a while yet. If you have wandering/steering issues though and do not know the age of your trunion bearings then they are suspect in my opinion as they lead a hard life and unlike other bearings on the 80 that can last seemingly forever (wheel bearings for instance) the trunions do seem to wear

​

​

​

Well, when I bought the vehicle a couple years ago someone had definitely been in the knuckles because in the box of spare parts I got with it were some odds and ends from a knuckle rebuild kit. To be honest I don't have any experience with replacing bearings so I can check the wheels based on LandTank's thread and take a guess. But it may be safer just to service them as you suggested. I had thought about hanging on to the new bearings and waiting until I put gears in...but the likelihood of me regearing in the next year is probably low and compared to the possibility of loose/damaged bearings I'd rather have to buy another set when the time comes. $300-400 vs a few thousand doesn't sound like a good reason to risk it.

 

[jpoole]

An anecdote regarding wheel bearings is that I bought all new wheel bearings for my 80 but they are all on the shelf still. The OG wheel bearings/races looked great and I'm not into driving races in/out just for the fun of it. The only bearings that I did need to replace were the trunions that were clearly showing signs of wear and that is consistent from what I've heard here on mud as well. Fortunately these bearings/races are easy to replace once you have access. Keep up with the shims on each knuckle and put them back in the same places that they came from.

From what I've read and experienced spindle damage is somewhat likely. A lot of folks have driven their 80s around with loose wheel bearings and this damages the spindle and makes getting a good torque on the wheel bearings a challenge. I'd anticipate this as an issue that you find when in there more than a wheel bearing needing replacement.

On the rear axle I removed the inner axle seal and did not replace it. This means that my rear wheel bearings are now lubed with the gear oil from the center diff/housing and not with bearing grease. All I do now is keep gear oil in the axle and check the wheels for bearing play .

You may not need to address all of these items now but at least you know what to anticipate as you decide. I moved South from N. VA a few years ago and agree that Winter wrenching is often a non-option. You'll be too busy hanging pictures in your spare time to wrench much anyway

 

[Wrencher93]

An anecdote regarding wheel bearings is that I bought all new wheel bearings for my 80 but they are all on the shelf still. The OG wheel bearings/races looked great and I'm not into driving races in/out just for the fun of it. The only bearings that I did need to replace were the trunions that were clearly showing signs of wear and that is consistent from what I've heard here on mud as well. Fortunately these bearings/races are easy to replace once you have access. Keep up with the shims on each knuckle and put them back in the same places that they came from.

From what I've read and experienced spindle damage is somewhat likely. A lot of folks have driven their 80s around with loose wheel bearings and this damages the spindle and makes getting a good torque on the wheel bearings a challenge. I'd anticipate this as an issue that you find when in there more than a wheel bearing needing replacement.

On the rear axle I removed the inner axle seal and did not replace it. This means that my rear wheel bearings are now lubed with the gear oil from the center diff/housing and not with bearing grease. All I do now is keep gear oil in the axle and check the wheels for bearing play .

You may not need to address all of these items now but at least you know what to anticipate as you decide. I moved South from N. VA a few years ago and agree that Winter wrenching is often a non-option. You'll be too busy hanging pictures in your spare time to wrench much anyway

Ok so two questions:
1.) How did you know the trunion bearings needed replacement? Obviously if they look like trash then there's your sign but what would you consider excessive wear/ excessive play?

2.) Is removing the rear axle seal a common thing? First I've heard of it. Just wondering if that wouldn't lead to an increased possibility of weeping gear oil at the rear hubs and if the gear oil would be viscous enough to adequately lube the bearings. I guess if it works for ring and pinion it would probably work for bearings but this is new to me.

 

[jpoole]

In my case, regarding trunion/knuckle bearing replacement, my truck was a dangerous basket case with clear mechanical abuse in it's past. The wheel bearings were loose so I couldn't tell if the trunions were also loose very easily but I got the full kit, with bearings from Cruiser Outfitters and replaced trunion bearings and all seals, birfs, etc. etc. for good measure, except for the wheel bearings themselves as mentioned above. When I pulled the old trunions out there were clear wear markings on the races and bearings 180 degrees from each other which I think is the common wear pattern. That wear indicated that I was right in replacing them.

More broadly these trunion bearings lead a hard life and the wear is more concentrated because they are most often in the single drive-straight position when getting impacted. Wisdom is to replace these whenever convenient unless they are known to be young/good. They are cheap and easy to replace. See post #3 below for input from an expert on these:

Picture of damaged trunnion bearing roller

So, when I did my birfs a few weeks ago, I found that one of my trunnion bearings was shot. I saved it and finally took a picture of it tonight. Here is a picture of it. I have reciepts for a front end service 40K miles ago, but I didn't check to see if the trunnion bearings were done...

forum.ih8mud.com

​

Regarding rear wheel seals, this is probably a bit more controversial but has been discussed on the forum/web a number of times and I'm definitely in the camp of leave the seal/grease out for a number of reasons. Beyond what you can read on the subject I can add that this setup has worked great for me for 3 years and 30k+ miles. I've had no hub heat and haven't needed to re-tighten the rear wheel bearings. Here's a thread that mentions this topic though there are other/better ones I recall but don't have links to. Keep in mind that Tools (RIP) of post #12 is a respected expert and many, myself included, consider him an authority on all things TLC:

full float rear axle seal question

I have a full float axle that I'm rebuilding to put in my taco and I have a question about the hub seals. Where does the outer axle seal go? Does it go in the spindle, if so how deep? When I tore the axle down it appears it didn't have one in there.

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[Wrencher93]

In my case, regarding trunion/knuckle bearing replacement, my truck was a dangerous basket case with clear mechanical abuse in it's past. The wheel bearings were loose so I couldn't tell if the trunions were also loose very easily but I got the full kit, with bearings from Cruiser Outfitters and replaced trunion bearings and all seals, birfs, etc. etc. for good measure, except for the wheel bearings themselves as mentioned above. When I pulled the old trunions out there were clear wear markings on the races and bearings 180 degrees from each other which I think is the common wear pattern. That wear indicated that I was right in replacing them.

More broadly these trunion bearings lead a hard life and the wear is more concentrated because they are most often in the single drive-straight position when getting impacted. Wisdom is to replace these whenever convenient unless they are known to be young/good. They are cheap and easy to replace. See post #3 below for input from an expert on these:

Picture of damaged trunnion bearing roller

So, when I did my birfs a few weeks ago, I found that one of my trunnion bearings was shot. I saved it and finally took a picture of it tonight. Here is a picture of it. I have reciepts for a front end service 40K miles ago, but I didn't check to see if the trunnion bearings were done...

forum.ih8mud.com

​

Regarding rear wheel seals, this is probably a bit more controversial but has been discussed on the forum/web a number of times and I'm definitely in the camp of leave the seal/grease out for a number of reasons. Beyond what you can read on the subject I can add that this setup has worked great for me for 3 years and 30k+ miles. I've had no hub heat and haven't needed to re-tighten the rear wheel bearings. Here's a thread that mentions this topic though there are other/better ones I recall but don't have links to. Keep in mind that Tools (RIP) of post #12 is a respected expert and many, myself included, consider him an authority on all things TLC:

full float rear axle seal question

I have a full float axle that I'm rebuilding to put in my taco and I have a question about the hub seals. Where does the outer axle seal go? Does it go in the spindle, if so how deep? When I tore the axle down it appears it didn't have one in there.

forum.ih8mud.com

This is excellent information, thanks! I just skimmed both of those threads and read the posts you mentioned.

Sounds like the rear axle seal is only a matter of time in terms of oil getting through. I wonder if the "uphill" bearings would get overheated in prolonged off-camber driving. I guess the likelihood of that is probably low and if the cruiser was tilted like that for a while you'd probably be doing something with low speeds like a recovery.

In regard to the trunion bearings, I hadn't thought of them affecting caster and camber but now that I read that it seems obvious given their job is to properly align the front knuckles.

Summary: You have convinced me to open and service the knuckles. Haven't decided about the rear axle seals yet. Curse my expensive sense of paranoia.

 

[jpoole]

This forum can lead to overdoing the PM but since your goal is getting the PM right and addressing a few known issues with steering and brakes I don't think you going all the way in on the axle/knuckles is off target at all. My recommendations are based on trying to find ways to spend less time/$ fixing my 80 and more time using it while minimizing risks of failures/etc.. From what I've learned having to redo a few items I skipped the first time around it's clearly better to spend a few hundred $ or a few hours extra the first time unless you are certain it's unnecessary. That may be towards going in deeper or it may just be towards buying better quality parts, slowing down and being more careful.

While you will be faster the 2nd, or 3rd time you do a job (don't ask me how I know) it's still faster to only do them 1 time and the forum can help you in this area I think.

 

[Wrencher93]

This forum can lead to overdoing the PM but since your goal is getting the PM right and addressing a few known issues with steering and brakes I don't think you going all the way in on the axle/knuckles is off target at all. My recommendations are based on trying to find ways to spend less time/$ fixing my 80 and more time using it while minimizing risks of failures/etc.. From what I've learned having to redo a few items I skipped the first time around it's clearly better to spend a few hundred $ or a few hours extra the first time unless you are certain it's unnecessary. That may be towards going in deeper or it may just be towards buying better quality parts, slowing down and being more careful.

While you will be faster the 2nd, or 3rd time you do a job (don't ask me how I know) it's still faster to only do them 1 time and the forum can help you in this area I think.

I completely agree. Better to do things right the first time. It often ends up costing more to do it half way twice (or the right way the second time) than to just bite the bullet on the first go.