1975 2F Piggy with Weber 38 carb and DUI dizzy...need some insight please:)

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Sorry for the delay guys...but at 9:15p.m., weighing in at 7lbs 7ozs (in room #7 no less!), we welcomed our new baby girl tonight!!! Quite the long Christmas Day for sure (headed to the hospital at 9:30a.m.). Soon as we get settled this week I'll be back in the garage and trying to find a place to get that damned DUI tested:/

Until then...lots of baby stuff!!! Will post pics when I get a chance tomorrow/Monday.

Thanks guys!!!
 
Thanks guys! No name yet...still trying to figure that one out:)

Should be a lot easyer then figuring out your cruiser stuff.:D

Just don't call her Piggy.:hillbilly:
 
Well the coil is part of the ignition system. It's good practice when replacing a part of a system like a new dizzy, to replace everything in that system at the same time. All I know is I was having problems with mine similar to yours and I replaced the carb, dizzy, coil, plugs, and wires and my problems went away.
You have good comp.#'s, no cracks in the intake, carb isn't leaking fuel. I'm just saying if it were me, I'd sell off the suspect parts on ebay or craigslist and put the $ towards all new parts and start fresh.
Got your email, yes , it's very doable.

I've had my DUI setup for over seven year and it has worked without any issues regardless of the speed I run. My vehicle climbs grade at a higher mph than it did with my factory setup which also worked without any issues. If your 40 idles then I question that your problems are due to the DUI. I've never seen a distributor that would function at idle and then die at higher rpm's and then function again at idle. Obviously anything is possible.

The following is from Performance Distributors and is worth knowing. Even though the distributor appears to work at idle the following will let you test two of the three electronic components and you can buy and replace the module if you cannot find an auto parts store capable of testing a GM HEI module.

Distributor Will Not Fire
If you are having a problem with the distributor not producing a spark, then follow these steps to help determine the problem. First and foremost, check to make sure your hot wire is at least 12 gage from the battery to the fuse panel to the ignition key and finally to the distributor and make sure there are no resistors inline (such as resistor wire used by Toyota inline to or from the fuse panel and I do not mean the fuseible link). Also, check to make sure all your grounds are good. There is a ground wire that attaches to one of the starter mounting bolts and then to the passenger side frame which has a threaded hole to mount that end of the ground strap. A bad ground will keep the distributor from firing. I would measure the resistance across the lugs of the ground strap and then from the starter to the frame itself to see if the attach points need to be cleaned. I would make sure the other ground strap from the battery to the frame also has low resistance. If the hot wire and grounds appear to be good, then the problem could be with one of the electronic components inside the distributor. The distributor has three electronic parts which make it fire. They are the magnetic pick up coil, the module and the coil. The magnetic pick up coil is located inside the distributor underneath the rotor and weight and spring assembly. It has a white and green wire coming out of it that plugs into the module with a yellow plastic insulator. The magnetic pick up coil can be tested using an ohm meter. With the green and white wires disconnected from the module, touch the meter leads to the terminals of these wires. The reading should be between 800-900 ohms. A normal reading is about 830-850. As long as it is within the 800-900 range, then the part is good. The coil (in the cap) can be tested with an ohm meter as well. The resistance values for the coil are as follows. To check the primary side of the coil, touch the meter leads to the red and yellow wires. The reading should fall between 0.3-1.0 ohms. Usually 0.6 - 0.9 ohms is normal. Note that the red wire is positive (+) and yellow is negative (-). To check the secondary side of the coil, it must be removed from the cap. Touch one lead to the center black wire and the other to the bottom of the coil where the rotor bushing makes contact. This reading should be between 6.00K-30.00K ohms. The normal reading is about 8.5K - 9.0K. Refer to illustration 1 for proper testing of the primary and secondary resistance of the coil. For the module, there is no resistance check that you can perform to see if it is good or bad. If you suspect the module is bad, you can replace it with another module to see if this will get the distributor to fire. A stock GM module can be used for this test. Or you could take the module to an auto parts store such as Auto Zone or NAPA and have them test it. It is recommended to have the test procedure performed 4-5 times. Reason is, each time the module is tested it develops more heat and heat is a major factor in the breakdown of the module.

Oil in the Top of the Distributor
Oil in the top of the distributor housing around the pickup coil and module is caused by too much crankcase pressure. The distributor does not suck oil up into itself. The shaft and gear only rotate; they do not force oil upward into the housing. The crankcase pressure forces the oil up into the distributor. If in fact you find there is an oil problem then you should correct the source of excessive crankcase pressure. If that option is not available then drill two oil relief holes in the distributor housing. First, remove the roll pin from the gear and remove the gear from the shaft. Be careful not to lose the shims and tang washer that are between the gear and housing. With the cap and rotor off, remove the shaft from the housing. On the housing itself, drill a 1/4" hole into one side about 2" up from the bottom of the housing. Do not drill all the way through, just to the center and back out. Make sure you drill above the two rings at the bottom of the housing. These are oil bosses and you do not want to drill into them. On the opposite side of where you drilled the first hole (180 degrees), drill another 1/4" hole about 1" underneath the flange that rests on the intake (where the hold down clamp is attached). Again, do not drill through to the other side, just to the center and then back out. These two holes will allow the oil to drain back down into the engine and will not hurt the strength of the housing.

Non Existing Distributor Installation
If you are starting fresh and installing a DUI Distributor in a new or rebuilt engine, then you will need to bring the number one cylinder up to top dead center (TDC) on the compression stroke. Make sure you are on the compression stroke or you will be 180 degrees out on the timing. If necessary, have someone spin the engine over while holding your thumb over the number one spark plug hole until you feel it "blow” and this will be your compression stroke. Turn the engine by hand to line the timing mark on the bell housing to the line in the flywheel below the BB timing mark. Once this is established, drop the distributor in the block (without the cap) and point the number one rotor just right of the #4 spark plug. Make sure the distributor engages the oil pump and that it bottoms out on the block. There is supposed to be a small gap between the end of the distributor shaft and the bottom of the slot in the oil pump. If the distributor does not bottom out on the block then you need to determine if it is a tight fit or that the HEI shaft has bottomed out on the oil pump slot. Do not run the engine until this has been corrected because damage to your hardware may result. Once the distributor is installed and all clearances have been checked (see Topic 1), re-install the cap. Now, add the spark plug wires and follow the firing order starting with the terminal that was designated as number one. For optimum performance, set the spark plug gaps at .050" - .055". Leave the vacuum advance disconnected and plug the vacuum line. Your engine should now be ready to start. Crank the engine and adjust the distributor until it fires. Once the engine is running adjust the initial timing to about 7 degrees (BB) before top dead center (BTDC) while it is idling at around 650 rpm’s. Once initial timing is set, lock the distributor down and recheck the timing. Plug in the vacuum line and go for a road test. Make sure there is no pinging under hard acceleration. If pinging is detected, retard the timing until it is eliminated.
In the photo of my set up you can see how much the HEI was rotated CCW to time the engine to 7 degrees or the BB.
Illistration 1.webp
Oil in Top of Distributor.gif
DUI HEI 01.webp
 
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Here are some FAQ's from the DUI HEI website

Q: How does Performance Distributors DUI distributor compare to a multi-spark ignition system?
A: The DUI is not like the multi-spark systems that utilize an external capacitive discharge ignition box. The DUI is a one piece ignition system with no external components. The DUI incorporates a high dwell module inside the distributor that increases the coil saturation time. The longer saturation time makes the coil produce one long duration spark as compared to several multiple sparks. The longer duration spark will improve throttle response and low end power. In conjuction with our 50,000 volt coil, spark plug gaps can be opened up to .055". Most spark box systems recommend a gap of no larger than .045". The DUI's coil and module only draw 2-3 amps. Most spark box ignitions draw anywhere from 6-10 amps. The lower amperage draw of the DUI allows it to run cooler, making it more reliable than the spark box. The less amperage draw is very important if you are a racer that just runs a 12 volt battery with no alternator. Most importantly, the DUI distributor is custom tuned on a distributor machine for your vehicle and engine. Custom tuning insures maximum performance and eliminates detonation. This is a service that the other ignition companies do not provide. Instead, they'll send you a curve kit so that you, the customer, can figure out your own advance curve.

Q: Where is number one on the DUI distributor?
A: No particular terminal on the DUI is designated as number 1. When you bring your number one cylinder up to top dead center on the compression stroke, you can drop the distributor in and point the rotor toward any terminal that you want to make number one. Once you establish which terminal on the cap is number one, follow your firing order from that point.

Q: What's the difference between mechanical and vacuum advance?
A: Mechanical advance is the centrifugal weight and spring assembly located underneath the rotor that provides the largest part of the timing curve. The vacuum advance canister, located on the side of the distributor, provides additional timing only when the engine is pulling vacuum. The mechanical advance along with the initial advance (base timing set at idle) is what gives you total timing. An example of total timing would be 12° initial plus 24° of mechanical which equals to 36° total. Vacuum advance is not figured into total timing because it will only function when the engine is not under a load. Example: If your vehicle is cruising on a flat stretch of road or going downhill, vacuum advance will come in and add as much as 15° to the total timing for increased fuel mileage and cleaner spark plugs. It is not uncommon to see as much as 50° - 52° of timing with vacuum advance. But don't be alarmed by this being too much timing as the vacuum advance will decrease once you accelerate and put the engine under a load. Under hard acceleration the timing will go back to the original total with no vacuum advance.

Q: Do I time the engine with or without vacuum advance?
A: Always set your timing with the vacuum advance disconnected and the vacuum line must be plugged.

Q: Where do I connect the hot wire to make sure I get 12 volts to my DUI?
A: Your hot wire for the DUI must be at least 12 gauge and it can be connected to the starter solenoid or a fuse. The solenoid is usually the easiest place to connect your hot wire to but make sure you use the terminal that is hot only when the key switch is in the start and run position. Same with using a fuse, just make sure the voltage is present only in the start and run position. In most applications, we do not recommend using the existing ignition hot wire. It may be too small or a resisted wire thus reducing the voltage. 1974 and later GM vehicles can use the existing hot wire with the DUI as they were originally set up for HEI distributors.

Q: How large is the cap on a DUI Distributor?
A: The DUI Distributor cap is exactly the same dimensions as a GM HEI cap which measures 5 1/4" in diameter where it attaches to the distributor housing. Overall it is about 1 1/2" larger than most stock and points style distributor caps.

Q: What information do you need to custom curve the distributor for my application?
A: We need information about the vehicle and engine such as cam duration & lift, compression ratio, carburetor size, vehicle weight, towing weight (if applicable), maximum rpm, transmission and octane of fuel. If you have a supercharger, we need to know the maximum amount of boost it produces. Also, if you run a nitrous kit, we need the horsepower rating for the system you are running.

Q: What type of spark plugs do you recommend with your systems?
A: In most applications, we recommend using Autolite Platinum Spark Plugs. These plugs have worked very well with our Distributors and Firepower Ignition Kits. You should retain the same heat range your engine calls for but open the spark plug gaps to the recommended setting as set forth by the distributor or ignition kit instructions

Q: How much horsepower will I gain with the DUI?
A: It is hard to say exactly how much the DUI will increase horsepower. Too many parameters are involved to answer this question with an exact answer. On average, the DUI will produce an increase of 15-20 horsepower over a stock ignition system. Your engine may see more or less depending on other modifications. The DUI has been dyno tested to provide 40 more horsepower over a stock GM HEI! Unfortunately, we cannot guarantee this type of result for everyone. But in most every case, the DUI will provide a noticeable increase in performance and fuel mileage.

Q: Why don't you sell your curve kit separately?
A: We do not sell our curve kits separately because our specialty is tuning the weights and springs on a distributor machine for the customer’s application. This provides a more accurate timing curve and eliminates the guess work for the customer.

Q: Are replacement parts hard to find for the DUI?
A: No. Stock GM HEI parts such as a module, coil, cap and rotor can be used on the top of the DUI distributor to replace a possible bad part. These can be found at any local auto parts store. Granted, the stock part will get your DUI running in case of a breakdown but it will not provide the same performance as the original DUI parts.

Q: What is the resistance per foot on the LiveWires?
A: The LiveWires measure 300-350 ohms per foot resistance.
 
Oh dear lord evans that is a lot of AWESOME info! I have a very nice FLUKE that I will go to town with on all those suggested measurements as soon as I can get some time in the next day or two. Thank you SOOO much for sticking this on here! It is most appreciated!
 
Hey Guys. Finally got a chance to take a peak at the Pig today. Not much time to do anything other than clean up a little around the rig.

Not much to report. But I had a thought regarding the distributor: do any of you guys have a stock one you know is working that I might be able to try in there? Like we kinda talked about, I could at least eliminate that as an issue if it doesn't change anything.

IF there is one that works I can try out, I'd be sorely tempted to buy it off you thereafter if that's what the hangup has been the whole time:) Otherwise I'll happily send it back with a giftcard to Starbucks or something:)

Thanks guys!
 
i have read through most of this thread, and thought i would give my 2 cents,
i was looking at the weber sight to see what the new out of box jetting should be and your jetting before you started rejetting varied a little from webers claim of what it should be,also the float level was off indicating to me that the carb may have been run on the rig before po tore the engine down for rebuild,
that being said and the fact that you said it has back fire through the carb a couple of times lets me believe you still have a carb issue, now if the carb in fact has been run and set for a long time the power valve and acc. pumper could still be defective
even if the acc. pumps fuel it may not be efficient enough. look up webers base lien idle settings for a weber 38 and follow it to a T no other adjustments to the carb should be done till that is done. stalling off of idle is common with incorrect lien idle setting and defective acc. pumper or defective power valve.

if this carb tuning is more hassle than you want to deal with i am willing to trade you my asian carb that is running on my 60 now

good luck

38 DGAS Tunning
 
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Hi guys!!! I'm still alive and so is the Pig!!! The baby is happy as a claim in mud and starting to get a decent schedule together for keeping me sane:)

On to the Piglet. I'm going after that voltage regulator this week. With only one set of hands, it was a little difficult to rev the engine and keep the FLUKE on the line to the distributor. But I'm 99% certain it dropped significantly as the engine was trying to accelerate above idle. From the MASSIVE amount of reading here, I've started working on tracking down the path of the wire to the distributor. I don't see anything that looks like it is getting a straight 12V by any means. I think the previous owner just tapped into a line that was in the trunk for the OEM distributor, and never went beyond that.

It sure seems to me the next step would be bypassing the voltage regulator correct? My understanding is that OEM regulator adds resistance to keep the OEM points distributor under 9 volts when running so it doesn't burn up the points. If the previous owner just plugged this distributor in, didn't bypass the regulator, and tapped off and existing positive lead, this would explain my symptoms correct?

Presupposing that is the case...what's the best/safest way about getting around that regulator? I don't mind doing something temporary to test the situation (i.e. jumping), however, I definitely want a permanent solution that won't burn the truck to the ground (even though there are times that seems more productive;).

Thanks guys! Here's to hoping the good luck post-baby holds with the Piggy project this week.
 
Thought I'd bump myself...that sounds dirty. Figured with all the activity here the last few days this may have been missed by all those up to date on my dilema. Going to try and figure that distributor 'hot wire' this weekend. Any insight or thoughts are MOST appreciated!

Thanks y'all!
 
Hey there J. Previous owner of your rig here. Just finished reading this whole thread and here are my thoughts.

I had a TON of troubles with the gear on the dizzy. It's a DUI from Man-a-Fre, the gear was just a tad off in the series that I bought and I had to replace it several times. Due to much frustration with it, I also bought a chevy (camaro?) dizzy and replaced some parts trying to get it to work again. It did for a while but then it sat a ton as you're aware.

My recommendation at this point is to get a new dizzy. I love the DUI (it ran GREAT when the gear didn't sheer). It will run you a couple hundred to get a brandy new one from MAF or anywhere else... but I think they're great.

Since you've tried the stock carb, now the weber, and every voltage check known to man, I'd bet dollars to donuts it's the distributor. I had planned to toss it out and get a new one before I sold it... so that would still be my recommendation.

Good luck,

Jeremy

p.s. Congrats on the new addition and DON'T hesitate to PM if you need want any insight on what my crazy brain was thinking on any of the mods/probs with Ye Olde Pig.
 
Thanks Jeremy. I don't however recall that information (regarding the dizzy) being in the fine-print when I bought the rig from you :/ This entire issue has driven me absolutely insane.
 
How old is your gas? I went thru heck trying to get my rig started, and when it did, it would die with throttle, much like you're describing. Gas I was using was more than a year old. I tried some fresh gas and it ran like a dream. Just something you may want to try.
 
Thanks dog. I just sent an e-mail over to that guy regarding the dizzy. Appreciate the heads up. I might have missed it in my craigslist scouring:)
 
Thanks Jeremy. I don't however recall that information (regarding the dizzy) being in the fine-print when I bought the rig from you :/ This entire issue has driven me absolutely insane.

Sorry dude... I bet I could fill a book full of "fine print." That whole story involves the gear shearing off on my way to another cruiser heads house who is no longer on here (but old time piggers will remember Seth from his rear window rubber sagas), then getting towed to his house, driving 40 miles to Man-a-fre for another gear, redrilling the shaft (in hindsight should have drilled the gear) and putting it in at his house at like 2am. Maybe I was trying to block it out, who knows.

Anyway... hope you have better luck from here! If not you can just blame it on the P.O! ;)
:cheers:
:flipoff2: (<--- pigger salute)
 
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