I'm posting this on a Suzuki forum and a Toyota forum to try and average out the biases... A little background info: I used to frequent the Zukiworld forums between 7 and 10 years ago when I owned a great little 1997 4door Sidekick and later a 2001 4door Vitara. I ended up frustrated with the Vitara after numerous blown struts, a cracked front diff housing, and then 4 or 5 blown CV axles after replacing the diff with a steel V6 one. Anyways, after getting sick of wrenching on my rig all the time due to a poorly designed suspension lift and lack of aftermarket support, I sold the Vitara and switched to a 2004 Tacoma xtracab. I still have the Tacoma right now and also have an 1989 FJ62 but am planning on selling both in the near future. The Taco especially has served me very well and even after wheeling it moderately hard for the last 6 years it hasn't cost me much to run at all. But I have always missed the nimble, fun size and weight of the Suzukis, and also the ability to haul passengers comfortably, as the xtracab is barely adequate for toddlers let alone adults. Due to a growing family situation (back then I was single, now I'm married and have our first child on the way), I'm looking for a 7 passenger 4wd SUV that has off-road capability similar to or slightly less than the Tacoma. Seems overkill to go for a 7-passenger right away, right? But I feel it's easier to justify spending money on lifts, tires, winch bumpers, etc for a vehicle if you plan to keep it for a long time (thinking next 10 years possibly). A 5 passenger SUV is really only good for 2 adults and 2 kids in car seats, so I think we would probably outgrow that pretty quickly and then need to upsize again.
Right now I'm looking at the following 3 options: 1999-2006 Suzuki XL7, 2003-2009 Toyota 4Runner, 2006-2010 Jeep Commander. After doing a bit of research I'm not too keen on the Jeep, I've basically ruled it out, mainly due to poor build quality and poor fuel mileage.
The 4runner looks best for my requirements.
Pros: It has either a punchy v6 or a v8, both reliable engines as far as anyone knows. It comes with traction control and other electronic goodies I don't really care about. It is available with 7 seats; the 3rd row models are not that easy to find though, and the seats don't fold flat into the floor, they hang off to the sides and take up space there. My experience with Toyota vehicles has been really good, I also really appreciate the wide range of aftermarket support for them after being essentially on my own with the 2001 Vitara.
Cons: 1)It's only available as an automatic. 2)It has alot of overly complicated / unnecessary systems like traction control, vehicle skid control, hill-start assist, and downhill assist control. I don't really need that, I know how to drive and prefer the old school way of wheeling as opposed to pushing a button and letting the computer do everything for me. 3) No possibility of retrofitting manual hubs to it. 4) Expensive- the cheapest one I've found was around $8000 CDN, with high mileage, and 3 provinces away requiring an inspection to bring it to BC. A clean one with lower mileage can go for as much as $15,000 which is over what I'm willing to pay. I'd say $10,000 tops but even that's a little on the high side. 5) Push button 4wd- lame, bound to leave me stranded one day. I just replaced the 4wd actuator on my friend's 2001 Tacoma so I'm a little gun-shy of electronic shift motors if I can avoid them.
The XL7 on the other hand, doesn't really LOOK like it's cut out for the job at first glance, but it's got potential to be a contender for thousands less $$$.
Pros: 1) Available with 5 speed manual, AND a lever-shifted t-case, and it's possible to install manual hubs easily 2) Much more affordable off the lot, most expensive one I've seen is the same price as the cheapest 4Runner. Leaves some money left over to build it up a bit. 3) Rear seats fold almost flat into the floor 4) I'd say it's slightly more unique, although I don't see a ton of 4th gen 4runners out there either. 5) Easily re-gearable once larger tires are installed, just swap 3rd members from an automatic in
Cons: 1) Considerably less off-road worthy out of the box. Small tires, no skid plating except the fuel tank, low clearance. Needs a 2" lift and 2" body lift and 30-31" tires just to keep up to an stock 4runner. My 2001 Vitara was the same way, but at least it had a shorter wheelbase. The Xl7 has the exact same 110" wheelbase as a 4th gen 4runner. 2) Limited aftermarket support, even though it's been around longer. 3) No dealerships for genuine parts in North America. Not really an issue though. 4) Even though it has 100 less horsepower and weighs hundreds of pounds less, it gets the same fuel economy as the v6 4runner 5) About 4" narrower body than the 4runner. Could be an issue fitting child seats in the back. But again, FOUR inches, basically divided by two because it's going to be equally split from side to side, is only 2" less elbow room per side. Not sure if 2" is worth making a fuss about. 6) This is kind of the same as #2, but you can't even source an aftermarket winch bumper for it in North America! And there are no lockers available for it.
So...my question is. What would you do if you were in my situation? Buy a Zook for thousands less and modify it relatively inexpensively to get it up to par? Or spend big money on a Yota and leave it close to stock?
My ideal XL7 would be a pre-2004 (don't like that facelift), with the Rocky-Road 2.5" spring&spacer lift, plus 2" body lift, full skidplating, an aftermarket front bumper, rock sliders or at least step bars, and whatever size tires can fit under there. I'd love to stick with 15" wheels and run a 30x9.5 or 31x10.5, otherwise if it's gotta be 16" I'd try either 245/75R16 or 235/85R16 or 215/85R16. My wheeling typically involves tight-ish trails on mountainous terrain, lots of old mining and logging tracks, camping in the boondocks, etc. Not looking to beat the crap out of something I want to keep nice, but not afraid to scratch it in the event that things get a little sideways.
My ideal 4runner would be likely a 2004-2005, with a 3" lift, sliders, full skidplating (not sure what components are plated from factory on these), an aftermarket front bumper, and probably 31-33" tires. So very similar to how the XL would be set up if I went that route.
Something like this is what I'd be considering, all these look to have a 2" body lift, probably a 2" suspension lift, and roughly 30" tires
vs what you all know and love:
What say ye?
Right now I'm looking at the following 3 options: 1999-2006 Suzuki XL7, 2003-2009 Toyota 4Runner, 2006-2010 Jeep Commander. After doing a bit of research I'm not too keen on the Jeep, I've basically ruled it out, mainly due to poor build quality and poor fuel mileage.
The 4runner looks best for my requirements.
Pros: It has either a punchy v6 or a v8, both reliable engines as far as anyone knows. It comes with traction control and other electronic goodies I don't really care about. It is available with 7 seats; the 3rd row models are not that easy to find though, and the seats don't fold flat into the floor, they hang off to the sides and take up space there. My experience with Toyota vehicles has been really good, I also really appreciate the wide range of aftermarket support for them after being essentially on my own with the 2001 Vitara.
Cons: 1)It's only available as an automatic. 2)It has alot of overly complicated / unnecessary systems like traction control, vehicle skid control, hill-start assist, and downhill assist control. I don't really need that, I know how to drive and prefer the old school way of wheeling as opposed to pushing a button and letting the computer do everything for me. 3) No possibility of retrofitting manual hubs to it. 4) Expensive- the cheapest one I've found was around $8000 CDN, with high mileage, and 3 provinces away requiring an inspection to bring it to BC. A clean one with lower mileage can go for as much as $15,000 which is over what I'm willing to pay. I'd say $10,000 tops but even that's a little on the high side. 5) Push button 4wd- lame, bound to leave me stranded one day. I just replaced the 4wd actuator on my friend's 2001 Tacoma so I'm a little gun-shy of electronic shift motors if I can avoid them.
The XL7 on the other hand, doesn't really LOOK like it's cut out for the job at first glance, but it's got potential to be a contender for thousands less $$$.
Pros: 1) Available with 5 speed manual, AND a lever-shifted t-case, and it's possible to install manual hubs easily 2) Much more affordable off the lot, most expensive one I've seen is the same price as the cheapest 4Runner. Leaves some money left over to build it up a bit. 3) Rear seats fold almost flat into the floor 4) I'd say it's slightly more unique, although I don't see a ton of 4th gen 4runners out there either. 5) Easily re-gearable once larger tires are installed, just swap 3rd members from an automatic in
Cons: 1) Considerably less off-road worthy out of the box. Small tires, no skid plating except the fuel tank, low clearance. Needs a 2" lift and 2" body lift and 30-31" tires just to keep up to an stock 4runner. My 2001 Vitara was the same way, but at least it had a shorter wheelbase. The Xl7 has the exact same 110" wheelbase as a 4th gen 4runner. 2) Limited aftermarket support, even though it's been around longer. 3) No dealerships for genuine parts in North America. Not really an issue though. 4) Even though it has 100 less horsepower and weighs hundreds of pounds less, it gets the same fuel economy as the v6 4runner 5) About 4" narrower body than the 4runner. Could be an issue fitting child seats in the back. But again, FOUR inches, basically divided by two because it's going to be equally split from side to side, is only 2" less elbow room per side. Not sure if 2" is worth making a fuss about. 6) This is kind of the same as #2, but you can't even source an aftermarket winch bumper for it in North America! And there are no lockers available for it.
So...my question is. What would you do if you were in my situation? Buy a Zook for thousands less and modify it relatively inexpensively to get it up to par? Or spend big money on a Yota and leave it close to stock?
My ideal XL7 would be a pre-2004 (don't like that facelift), with the Rocky-Road 2.5" spring&spacer lift, plus 2" body lift, full skidplating, an aftermarket front bumper, rock sliders or at least step bars, and whatever size tires can fit under there. I'd love to stick with 15" wheels and run a 30x9.5 or 31x10.5, otherwise if it's gotta be 16" I'd try either 245/75R16 or 235/85R16 or 215/85R16. My wheeling typically involves tight-ish trails on mountainous terrain, lots of old mining and logging tracks, camping in the boondocks, etc. Not looking to beat the crap out of something I want to keep nice, but not afraid to scratch it in the event that things get a little sideways.
My ideal 4runner would be likely a 2004-2005, with a 3" lift, sliders, full skidplating (not sure what components are plated from factory on these), an aftermarket front bumper, and probably 31-33" tires. So very similar to how the XL would be set up if I went that route.
Something like this is what I'd be considering, all these look to have a 2" body lift, probably a 2" suspension lift, and roughly 30" tires
vs what you all know and love:
What say ye?
