What have you done to your 200 Series this week? (54 Viewers)

[OregonLC]

Honestly probably less risk than leaving a laptop in the back of the car on a sunny day. Various specs on the Dakota website if you want to check it out.

That said…I own 2 EVs and neither ever sleep in my garage…though I sometimes daily a DeLorean which is probably peak death by fire risk.

DL+ 12v 135Ah Dual Purpose 1000CCA Starter Battery Plus Deep Cycle Performance

DL+ 12v 135Ah LiFePO4 Golf Cart & 1000CCA Automotive Battery. Free charger with 11 year warranty. 135 Amp Hours of deep cycle Dakota Lithium performance.

dakotalithium.com

OPERATING TEMPERATURE
Ideal for rugged & harsh environments. Much better than SLA or other lithium batteries. -20°F min, +150°F max optimal operating temps (battery performs well down to -20°F). Internal even-heat technology allows for charging below 32°F. BMS high temp cut off at 167°F / 75°C.

Dakota Lithium batteries are 100% safe & reliable. Our signature chemistry, Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4), does not contain rare earth elements (like Cobalt) or heavy metals, is non-toxic, including no lead or acid, is non-corrosive, does not off gas, requires no watering or maintenance, can be placed in any orientation, and unlike other lithium batteries will not explode or catch fire. In addition, each Dakota Lithium battery is protected from over heating, over charging, and short circuiting, by a battery management system (BMS) microchip that also extends the lifespan and is contained in a rugged, waterproof case (although enough water can conduct electricity between the terminals, so don't submerse the battery). For best performance & reliability we recommend using a LiFePO4 charger.

Interesting. Didn't realize that the 135A was different that the other Dakota's. That it has passive/automatic heating that only comes on when charging and below 32F is a really nice feature. With the heated Battleborn I run in the Ram there is a manual switch, so you have to leave it on shore power to keep the heat on if you want it to accept a charge. Thanks for that info.

I have a little temp probe with a data logger that I used to monitor the crawlspace temps around pipes on my rental. I'm going to throw that under the hood and see what we get.

 

[TeCKis300]

Honestly probably less risk than leaving a laptop in the back of the car on a sunny day. Various specs on the Dakota website if you want to check it out.

That said…I own 2 EVs and neither ever sleep in my garage…though I sometimes daily a DeLorean which is probably peak death by fire risk.

DL+ 12v 135Ah Dual Purpose 1000CCA Starter Battery Plus Deep Cycle Performance

DL+ 12v 135Ah LiFePO4 Golf Cart & 1000CCA Automotive Battery. Free charger with 11 year warranty. 135 Amp Hours of deep cycle Dakota Lithium performance.

dakotalithium.com

OPERATING TEMPERATURE
Ideal for rugged & harsh environments. Much better than SLA or other lithium batteries. -20°F min, +150°F max optimal operating temps (battery performs well down to -20°F). Internal even-heat technology allows for charging below 32°F. BMS high temp cut off at 167°F / 75°C.

Dakota Lithium batteries are 100% safe & reliable. Our signature chemistry, Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4), does not contain rare earth elements (like Cobalt) or heavy metals, is non-toxic, including no lead or acid, is non-corrosive, does not off gas, requires no watering or maintenance, can be placed in any orientation, and unlike other lithium batteries will not explode or catch fire. In addition, each Dakota Lithium battery is protected from over heating, over charging, and short circuiting, by a battery management system (BMS) microchip that also extends the lifespan and is contained in a rugged, waterproof case (although enough water can conduct electricity between the terminals, so don't submerse the battery). For best performance & reliability we recommend using a LiFePO4 charger.

If there were a lithium to put underhood, LiFePO4 chemistry as you have would be the better option.

I've found in extended slow speed crawling off-road, that the underhood temps can really start to climb. Here's what the Intake Air Temp (IAT) looks like after a couple hours - 160F on an 88F day. And that's air being pulled from the fenderwell. Underhood is at least that or a bit more. If it's not a typical use case for you, it will probably be fine.

One thing that could be done is to fabricate a heat shield on the engine side of the battery. That could reduce the heat exposure off the radiator and headers to a meaningful degree to better preserve the life of the batt. AGMs have similar issues with heat. On OEM vehicles with AGM, they similarly use a partition to limit heat.

 

[gluaisrothai]

OAT 68F, sunny pavement temp 89F. Here is the starting battery surface temp:





After a 4 mile/20 minute drive through town:





After the reverse trip- might be approaching an equilibrium point.

 

[gluaisrothai]

If there were a lithium to put underhood, LiFePO4 chemistry as you have would be the better option.

I've found in extended slow speed crawling off-road, that the underhood temps can really start to climb. Here's what the Intake Air Temp (IAT) looks like after a couple hours - 160F on an 88F day. And that's air being pulled from the fenderwell. Underhood is at least that or a bit more. If it's not a typical use case for you, it will probably be fine.

One thing that could be done is to fabricate a heat shield on the engine side of the battery. That could reduce the heat exposure off the radiator and headers to a meaningful degree to better preserve the life of the batt. AGMs have similar issues with heat. On OEM vehicles with AGM, they similarly use a partition to limit heat.

View attachment 3610601

I’m going to try to find a way to duct some cooler air from a high pressure area back to the battery.

 

[NoClue]

Hopefully won’t need to, but that’s part of the testing! The spindle is mounted through a 2x4 3/16th tube which is gusseted in the rear and bottom. It’s welded top, bottom, and vertically on the inside of the tube before the end was plated shut. Frame mount is 1/4” using a grade 12 1/2” bolt through frame and both lower tie down bolts. The frame mount is a complete box (top/side/bottom/front). When latched the latched end is a C-shape mount and solid. Gonna run some fairly hard trails at Moab and see how it takes getting a little touchy feely with the rocks.

had the same on my rlc weld fab. sheared right off on the trail (thankfully). It was a 35"

 

[nwfl4runner]

had the same on my rlc weld fab. sheared right off on the trail (thankfully). It was a 35"

The spindle???

 

[TeCKis300]

OAT 68F, sunny pavement temp 89F. Here is the starting battery surface temp:





After a 4 mile/20 minute drive through town:





After the reverse trip- might be approaching an equilibrium point.

Love how you have a FLIR handy.

 

[TeCKis300]

What do we have here. To be continued...

 

[LTSR]

picked it up from a fresh alignment

 

[100kiwi]

@gluaisrothai the warmest I've seen the DCS lithium under hood was 64c/147f per the BMS temp sensor, last summer in a long up hill climb. OAT was around 95.
It's mounted on the front left.

 

[TheComedian]

Today I got my hose for the pressure washer so I was able to clean out my frame since it had already like an inch of sand, stones and not too little rust in it.
The orange sand is pure Sahara sand

 

[OregonLC]

You’re sure it’s just a battery longevity thing and no risk of burning things up?

Valid concern, though there's probably enough people who have underhood installations out there that if this was a thing it would have made the rounds of social media. I'd worry more about spoiled food from the BMS shutting down as well as early death of a $1000k battery.

If there were a lithium to put underhood, LiFePO4 chemistry as you have would be the better option.

I've found in extended slow speed crawling off-road, that the underhood temps can really start to climb. Here's what the Intake Air Temp (IAT) looks like after a couple hours - 160F on an 88F day. And that's air being pulled from the fenderwell. Underhood is at least that or a bit more. If it's not a typical use case for you, it will probably be fine.

One thing that could be done is to fabricate a heat shield on the engine side of the battery. That could reduce the heat exposure off the radiator and headers to a meaningful degree to better preserve the life of the batt. AGMs have similar issues with heat. On OEM vehicles with AGM, they similarly use a partition to limit heat.

Where is the intake temp measured on the 200? MAP sensor or TB? I could see it being heated on it's way across if TB.

160F would be hot to the touch, not burning but hot. I have my ARB Twin in the usual spot, driver side firewall, and I don't recall it being that hot prior to running (after inflation is a different story).

OAT 68F, sunny pavement temp 89F. Here is the starting battery surface temp:



After the reverse trip- might be approaching an equilibrium point.

As Tek mentioned, at speed and 68F is much different than uphill 3mph at 100F, a/c on.

I’m going to try to find a way to duct some cooler air from a high pressure area back to the battery.

That might work in SoCal, however I would have the opposite problem. We have subfreezing for months in a row here (low 20's just this week) and it's not uncommon to be below 0F. I'd worry about whatever airflow that position sees from overcoming the internal batt heat an inhibiting charge. Also, there are vids of both Battleborn and Dakota being taken apart on YT and there's only one temp sensor in the box, so if you have a cold spot in the front from airflow (or hot in the back from the engine) you may have cells outside of the limits.

 

[bloc]

Where is the intake temp measured on the 200? MAP sensor or TB? I could see it being heated on it's way across if TB.

MAF. The TB is actively heated to prevent ice buildup with a small loop from the cooling system.

 

[gluaisrothai]

Valid concern, though there's probably enough people who have underhood installations out there that if this was a thing it would have made the rounds of social media. I'd worry more about spoiled food from the BMS shutting down as well as early death of a $1000k battery.


Where is the intake temp measured on the 200? MAP sensor or TB? I could see it being heated on it's way across if TB.

160F would be hot to the touch, not burning but hot. I have my ARB Twin in the usual spot, driver side firewall, and I don't recall it being that hot prior to running (after inflation is a different story).



As Tek mentioned, at speed and 68F is much different than uphill 3mph at 100F, a/c on.


That might work in SoCal, however I would have the opposite problem. We have subfreezing for months in a row here (low 20's just this week) and it's not uncommon to be below 0F. I'd worry about whatever airflow that position sees from overcoming the internal batt heat an inhibiting charge. Also, there are vids of both Battleborn and Dakota being taken apart on YT and there's only one temp sensor in the box, so if you have a cold spot in the front from airflow (or hot in the back from the engine) you may have cells outside of the limits.

What I am thinking about now is a formed aluminum shroud fed by an avionics style cooling fan with a thermal switch. The shroud would only cover the sides of the battery and then exhaust into the engine bay. Blower in the bumper feeding through standard 5/8 avionics cooling SCAT tube to the shroud.

 

[OregonLC]

MAF. The TB is actively heated to prevent ice buildup with a small loop from the cooling system.

I wondered what the purpose of the coolant loop was for. FI TB's, however, shouldn't ice up like carburetor venturie? Almost lost our 100 because that TB has a pressed in plug that will unseat and dump all of it's coolant. Fortunately I have a keen sniffer and killed it with only 1 gallon lost.

What I am thinking about now is a formed aluminum shroud fed by an avionics style cooling fan with a thermal switch. The shroud would only cover the sides of the battery and then exhaust into the engine bay. Blower in the bumper feeding through standard 5/8 avionics cooling SCAT tube to the shroud.

At that point there becomes a level of complexity where reliability becomes compromised. I think I'll stick with the original plan of mounting the Li Batt in the back. Even though I'd really like to economize on space I feel that there's a lot of variables to solve for keeping it up front. Most likely you'll be fine, just not a solution for me.

 

[bloc]

I wondered what the purpose of the coolant loop was for. FI TB's, however, shouldn't ice up like carburetor venturie? Almost lost our 100 because that TB has a pressed in plug that will unseat and dump all of it's coolant. Fortunately I have a keen sniffer and killed it with only 1 gallon lost.

The clearances are so tight in a FI TB that it wouldn't take much ice to jam the throttle plate, or at least I assumed that was the purpose of the loop. And that's a bummer about the 100-series.. but good catch.

 

[TeCKis300]

160F would be hot to the touch, not burning but hot. I have my ARB Twin in the usual spot, driver side firewall, and I don't recall it being that hot prior to running (after inflation is a different story).

IAT is measured at the MAF, which is on the intake tube immediately off airbox. The coolant loop at the TB would have no influence on IAT measurements as it'ss situated further downstream at the throttle body. Sure, there could be some warming up of the air traveling through the box, but I suspect most of the underhood heat is influenced by air coming off the radiator with coolant is at 187 - 203F, and heat off the exhaust.

 

[gluaisrothai]

IAT is measured at the MAF, which is on the intake tube immediately off airbox. The coolant loop at the TB would have no influence on IAT measurements as it'ss situated further downstream at the throttle body. Sure, there could be some warming up of the air traveling through the box, but I suspect most of the underhood heat is influenced by air coming off the radiator with coolant is at 187 - 203F, and heat off the exhaust.

Side note- on the Harrop supercharger conversion the IAT sensor is relocated below the intercooler core in the supercharger manifold.

Agreed most of the underhood heat is shed from the radiator while running, and then I suspect the engine block/exhaust/cat will allow significant heat rise once a hot car is stopped.

That's why I'm thinking active cooling which can run until ambient temps around the battery fall below 30 C. I'm thinking a fan and thermostat is not a lot of complexity....I already have the fan and duct material, just need to fabricate a simple shroud.

 

[CactusHopper]

Removed the 10-yr old PPF from our used 2013 LX. Incredible transformation and shockingly was only around 6 hours of work. More details on the process with photos on this post.

Before:

After:

 

[CactusHopper]

Today I got my hose for the pressure washer so I was able to clean out my frame since it had already like an inch of sand, stones and not too little rust in it.
The orange sand is pure Sahara sand

View attachment 3610971
View attachment 3610990

Can you explain what you're doing here? i've heard of washing the frame by connecting a hose or something, is that what's going on? I just spend a while with a pressure washer but wonder if i'm missing a critical area and one day find i need to make a "is this too much rust" post.... i get a lot of beach sand laced with salt.