Victory 4x4 rear shelf (1 Viewer)

[TrekboxX]

"Triangulating" = tying them together with something rigid?

Essentially. What you are doing when designing rigid structures is to limit axes of movement. Making a "triangle" to reduce this movement along an axis is very effective- think fillet or gussets on steel, bridges, etc. Unless of course you want to maintain some movement for stress relief or reduction....

It's the same reason it's not always good to "beef up" some suspension components, etc. Something WILL give, and you can decide whether that thing is cheap or expensive.

 

[jaymar]

Essentially. What you are doing when designing rigid structures is to limit axes of movement. Making a "triangle" to reduce this movement along an axis is very effective- think fillet or gussets on steel, bridges, etc. Unless of course you want to maintain some movement for stress relief or reduction....

It's the same reason it's not always good to "beef up" some suspension components, etc. Something WILL give, and you can decide whether that thing is cheap or expensive.

I've never been a fan of, say, superhard aftermarket axles, because they shift the failure point to something more expensive. But I never thought about (let's call it) the triangle effect. Technically, this would apply to anything: drawer systems, roof rack and tent, hard molle panels, visor shelf, skid plates, roll cage especially, etc. And a fancy bumper weighed down with winch, spare, jerry cans or what-have-you is also going to affect flex, though in a somewhat different way.

So I guess the question is, which of these are likely to cause long-term, significant problems, and what might those problems be? Worst-case: metal fatigue caused by shelf or roof rack or molle panels, that causes failure on rollover? Or maybe a frame-attached roll cage that causes the frame to fail? And the more flexy the offroad driving, the faster/more severe that fatigue is? What are your thoughts?

 

[Spinedoc44]

This may be a stupid question does this also fit the LX570?

 

[jaymar]

This may be a stupid question does this also fit the LX570?

I'd suggest asking the company. The website could be better organized, but if you look around you'll see them mention vehicles it fits. Whether the SAME shelf that fits Vehicle A also fits Vehicle B, I have no idea. There are some measurements for some models, but they're scattered through the faqs. If the LX570 is the same as the 200LC, any 200LC component will fit. I'm an 80 guy, so all I know is 80LC body = LX450 body. The FZJ80 is mechanically identical as well.

 

[TrekboxX]

I've never been a fan of, say, superhard aftermarket axles, because they shift the failure point to something more expensive. But I never thought about (let's call it) the triangle effect. Technically, this would apply to anything: drawer systems, roof rack and tent, hard molle panels, visor shelf, skid plates, roll cage especially, etc. And a fancy bumper weighed down with winch, spare, jerry cans or what-have-you is also going to affect flex, though in a somewhat different way.

So I guess the question is, which of these are likely to cause long-term, significant problems, and what might those problems be? Worst-case: metal fatigue caused by shelf or roof rack or molle panels, that causes failure on rollover? Or maybe a frame-attached roll cage that causes the frame to fail? And the more flexy the offroad driving, the faster/more severe that fatigue is? What are your thoughts?

It’s hard to say without extensive engineering and testing. Looks like this company found out that their shelves caused the welds in the roofline to pop. I think it depends on the particular product and design. Bumpers, for instance, are relatively safe from this kind of thing since they are bolted to the end of the frame and essentially float along with the frame twisting. If, however, there was significant movement of the frame rails laterally and independently then this would cause issues for example. Roof racks are flat and should move more or less with the roofline- and they are through bolted (usually).

One of the (many) reasons I prefer to use wood in my drawer systems is that they flex without fatigue as metal would. They only touch the floor for the reasons already stated.

I guess there’s no straight answer- it depends. But your axle analogy is a good one- you have to be careful what your reinforce!

 

[Spinedoc44]

I'd suggest asking the company. The website could be better organized, but if you look around you'll see them mention vehicles it fits. Whether the SAME shelf that fits Vehicle A also fits Vehicle B, I have no idea. There are some measurements for some models, but they're scattered through the faqs. If the LX570 is the same as the 200LC, any 200LC component will fit. I'm an 80 guy, so all I know is 80LC body = LX450 body. The FZJ80 is mechanically identical as well.

And I have done that as well, just waiting on a response...thought someone may have a quick definitive answer...mainly I am at work and bored and spending too much time posting on MUD!

 

[jaymar]

It’s hard to say without extensive engineering and testing. Looks like this company found out that their shelves caused the welds in the roofline to pop. I think it depends on the particular product and design. Bumpers, for instance, are relatively safe from this kind of thing since they are bolted to the end of the frame and essentially float along with the frame twisting. If, however, there was significant movement of the frame rails laterally and independently then this would cause issues for example. Roof racks are flat and should move more or less with the roofline- and they are through bolted (usually).

One of the (many) reasons I prefer to use wood in my drawer systems is that they flex without fatigue as metal would. They only touch the floor for the reasons already stated.

I guess there’s no straight answer- it depends. But your axle analogy is a good one- you have to be careful what your reinforce!

Interesting stuff. I've always disliked the multi-part shelves because to me that said they were weak, and the mfr was choosing to make them that way to cut down on dimensional shipping costs. As well, the single flat surface is broken up with a ridge, and fasteners may damage things placed on the shelf (or heads below it). All of which remains true regardless of the quality of the materials themselves. Now you have me thinking that the flex points provided by the joints might actually be a good thing for the vehicle itself. Though I still suspect they were designed that way to cut shipping costs...

"They only touch the floor for the reasons already stated."

I must have missed those reasons...?

 

[TrekboxX]

Interesting stuff. I've always disliked the multi-part shelves because to me that said they were weak, and the mfr was choosing to make them that way to cut down on dimensional shipping costs. As well, the single flat surface is broken up with a ridge, and fasteners may damage things placed on the shelf (or heads below it). All of which remains true regardless of the quality of the materials themselves. Now you have me thinking that the flex points provided by the joints might actually be a good thing for the vehicle itself. Though I still suspect they were designed that way to cut shipping costs...

"They only touch the floor for the reasons already stated."

I must have missed those reasons...?

Yes- if they tied into the interior or body anywhere else it would cause the dreaded "triangulation" (!) and resist the body's natural movement. You'd definitely start wearing things out, getting more squeaks, etc. Even with our systems only attaching to the floor you can get noises from the truck that weren't there before. It's rare, but it does reinforce the floor some amount which causes the floor pan around it to move a little bit more to take up the slack. In my old 100 when a system was installed the 2nd row seat would occasionally squeak- but never did when the system was out. It was easily remedied, but shows that there can be unintended consequences to bolting stuff to your truck.

 

[fireball]

Sounds like a slightly sexier version of this would be a better solution:

 

[NCTroutHunter]

Why do they recommend people not using third row seats with the shelf installed? Is it a comfort issue or a safety issue?

 

[TheIcemanCometh]

Why do they recommend people not using third row seats with the shelf installed? Is it a comfort issue or a safety issue?

Both comfort and safety due to a significant loss in headroom.

 

[nimitz]

Bringing this back from the dead again to see what the long term verdict on this shelf is. I bought rear screen delete plates for my LX before I got it, not realizing it didn’t even have them so I’m looking for something to exchange it for to avoid a huge restocking fee.

 

[skrypj]

The fact that Victory supplies SAE hardware is irritating. Like I got their gas tank skid a few weeks ago and 5 of the bolts they use to attach the skids to the factory mount points are M8x1.25 but then 3 bolts/nuts they use to mount the skids to their brackets are SAE.

Like, why? Why not just ship similarly sized Metric bolts/nuts? Everything on every modern vehicle I have owned is metric.

 

[LTSR]

Bringing this back from the dead again to see what the long term verdict on this shelf is. I bought rear screen delete plates for my LX before I got it, not realizing it didn’t even have them so I’m looking for something to exchange it for to avoid a huge restocking fee.

not long term but I installed it last month and went on a trip to death valley over 300 miles off-road, holding up fine so far. Drove a good portion on rough roads at speed I would give it a I only keep jackets, a tow strap, air chuck + hose up there.

 

[kcjaz]

The fact that Victory supplies SAE hardware is irritating. Like I got their gas tank skid a few weeks ago and 5 of the bolts they use to attach the skids to the factory mount points are M8x1.25 but then 3 bolts/nuts they use to mount the skids to their brackets are SAE.

Like, why? Why not just ship similarly sized Metric bolts/nuts? Everything on every modern vehicle I have owned is metric.

Dissent is the same way. It’s really just because the metric hardware, especially in SA and high strength is harder to source and more expensive. Not impossible though. It is annoying having a mix on single vehicle. I think most of us would pay more for metric hardware but these guys sell to a broad market and they have just made a business decision.

 

[Exiled]

I don't have mine in a 200 but the Victory 4x4 rear shelf in my 100 has been going strong for 2+ years and multiple long offroad trips. It doesn't rattle or shake, although I have had to periodically check the hardware to retighten it. I've been very pleased with mine. If I could change something, I'd make the side mounts shorter so the shelf sat tighter up and closer to the roof. Not a dealbreaker, of course, but you have to get used to the impact on visibility. I don't know if the impact is the same on the 200.