I tried Mobil blend and Val blend in the 60 and liked it. Rotella has a syn blend 10w40.
kurt
kurt
Synthetic Oil (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter wob
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Couple of comments:
1) The idea that sythetics targeted at diesel's use a better base stock than synthetics made for combustion engines is not true. The difference between diesel and combution oils is the additive and detergency packages. Diesels pollute the oil in different ways than gas engines. Example, Delvac 1 and Mobil 1, same manufacture, both made with Group IV & V basestocks, different additive package.
2) Synthetic blends- DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME. The synthetic "blends" are a waste. Why, first they usually made by the same companies that call their group III+ basestock oil "Synthetic" (Castrol Syntec (except the german stuff), Valvoline). They then take a blend of their "sythetic" and mix it with Group II basestock standard oil. The really crummy part is often the "synthetic" part of the oil is only 10-25% of the mix. I would either stick with a good mineral oil (Chevron) and change it every 3000-4000 or switch to synthetic and go 6000-7500.
Cary
1) The idea that sythetics targeted at diesel's use a better base stock than synthetics made for combustion engines is not true. The difference between diesel and combution oils is the additive and detergency packages. Diesels pollute the oil in different ways than gas engines. Example, Delvac 1 and Mobil 1, same manufacture, both made with Group IV & V basestocks, different additive package.
2) Synthetic blends- DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME. The synthetic "blends" are a waste. Why, first they usually made by the same companies that call their group III+ basestock oil "Synthetic" (Castrol Syntec (except the german stuff), Valvoline). They then take a blend of their "sythetic" and mix it with Group II basestock standard oil. The really crummy part is often the "synthetic" part of the oil is only 10-25% of the mix. I would either stick with a good mineral oil (Chevron) and change it every 3000-4000 or switch to synthetic and go 6000-7500.
Cary
Jonathan_Ferguson
★ is in the wrong locale
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Generally Semi-Synthetic Oil uses a Mineral Base with Synthetic Additives.
any long term reports on Delvac 1?
R
robbie
Guest
What a great thread. I currently am running the Royal purple and would like to see some of the information on the RP not working well. I did this becasue the SAAB guy on the list raved on it and the testing backt then (5-6) years ago looked good. Before that I ran the Castrol Syntec for many years as it was the only one offered in 5W-50. I ran this oil in my 22r for over 12 years and lots of miles, the Fj62 after I got it I ran the same 5w-50 and in my 80 after I lost the head gasket and discolored the cylinders I ran the 5w-50 (110k miles). I do think the engine held (1FZ) together for me becasue of the higher weight oil. I had good piston slap and had to warm it up before running it hard.
I think any 30 weight oil is too thin for the cruiser and will lead to acclerated wear in the engine. We are pushing a big truck around with a understressed engine and use it at higher RPM,s then other truck/suv's around us. I think when I am pulling a hill and have it pushing my 6200 lb truck with high Rpm the engine runs the risk of excessive heat creating a minor problem when the 30 weight oil runs away from a hot spot that may delevop.
I currently use 10w-40 and like it and would reccommend it over the 30 weight oils for better protection. I would also suggest 20w-50 or 15w-50 for the warmer states as this would futher protect the engine under those conditions. Follow the Auzzie specs and your engine will live longer. I will be checking into the M1 stuff.
Thanks again for the great info and discussion. later Robbie who has to wark now.
I think any 30 weight oil is too thin for the cruiser and will lead to acclerated wear in the engine. We are pushing a big truck around with a understressed engine and use it at higher RPM,s then other truck/suv's around us. I think when I am pulling a hill and have it pushing my 6200 lb truck with high Rpm the engine runs the risk of excessive heat creating a minor problem when the 30 weight oil runs away from a hot spot that may delevop.
I currently use 10w-40 and like it and would reccommend it over the 30 weight oils for better protection. I would also suggest 20w-50 or 15w-50 for the warmer states as this would futher protect the engine under those conditions. Follow the Auzzie specs and your engine will live longer. I will be checking into the M1 stuff.
Thanks again for the great info and discussion. later Robbie who has to wark now.
I don't know crap abut syn, but am considering it for the 100 series. So make my life simple...........what grade should I run? I live in WA state, low temps are 20's, high 90deg. will be doing a good deal of stop and go driving.
[quote author=cruiserdan link=board=2;threadid=1585;start=msg9622#msg9622 date=1056504022]
Thanks Cap.
I'm 200 miles away from my next oil change. I think I'll try 15-40 for grins. if I don't like it , I'll drain and refill with 10-30
Did you do the knuckles yet?
Dan.
[/quote]
Dan,
Why bump up the cold viscosity rating if your problem is when warm? 5-40 or 10-40 would be a more logical step from 5-30. I find 10W-40 gives me good OP and no start up rattle.
On this whole subject, I used Mobil 1 10-40 for three oil changes. I bumped the mileage up to 5000 to help offset the cost. My results of this experiment was a couple of new oil leaks and a large hole in my wallet.
Yesterday I went back to dino 10W-40. My math (always questionable) suggests I can change my oil every 2000 miles for the cost of a M1 change every 5000. I submit there is little difference in a stock Cruiser in oil performance when you change that often. I also have the advantage of the shop and free labor. I just have to say "you, you and you, go change my oil." and it's done.
Thanks Cap.
I'm 200 miles away from my next oil change. I think I'll try 15-40 for grins. if I don't like it , I'll drain and refill with 10-30
Did you do the knuckles yet?
Dan.
[/quote]
Dan,
Why bump up the cold viscosity rating if your problem is when warm? 5-40 or 10-40 would be a more logical step from 5-30. I find 10W-40 gives me good OP and no start up rattle.
On this whole subject, I used Mobil 1 10-40 for three oil changes. I bumped the mileage up to 5000 to help offset the cost. My results of this experiment was a couple of new oil leaks and a large hole in my wallet.
Yesterday I went back to dino 10W-40. My math (always questionable) suggests I can change my oil every 2000 miles for the cost of a M1 change every 5000. I submit there is little difference in a stock Cruiser in oil performance when you change that often. I also have the advantage of the shop and free labor. I just have to say "you, you and you, go change my oil." and it's done.
Cruiserdrew
On the way there
I'm happy to see Robbie's response. I could never bring myself to run the reccomended 5w-30. I ran Delvac 1 5w-40 for several years and no issues, now I run Mobil 1 15w-50 year round. I am considering running the new Mobil 1 flavor 5w-40, but since I have 2 big jugs of the 15w-50, I'll stick with that this change. My reasoning is that my climate is similar to Australia, and Toyota reccomends 50 weights there. I grew up on air cooled VW's, and logical or not, I can't pour that thin oil in the crankcase. My wife's '04 Toyota is under warranty, and I have the dealer change the oil, but I supply Mobil 1 5w-30 so there are no issues if something goes wrong. Once the warranty expires, I'll go to 5w-40 when I do my own changes. As you can tell, I am a Mobil 1 fan, and have used it in numerous cars since the early 80's.
[quote author=raventai link=board=2;threadid=1585;start=msg99560#msg99560 date=1075958765]
any long term reports on Delvac 1?
[/quote]
Delvac 1 reports have been good. Mobil has just released their Mobil 1 5w-40 Synthetic SUV oil. Ignoring the name, is appears, and Mobil reps have unnofficially confirmed that it is in fact repackaged Delvac 1. This is a great deal because delvac 1 is only available in 1 gallon containers and runs $6 a quart v. the new 5w-40 sells for $4.00-$5.00 a quart.
Concerning 15w-50, there is really no need to run it. The big factor in oil breakdown is its HTHS performance at 150c (closely replicates running conditions at the cam and bearings). Generally, Synthetics will have a much higher HTHS than minerals for the same weight. If you look at the specs for cars in Europe, especially Germany you will see gradual change. It used to be that they all recomended 20w-50 for temps above 32f. The reason was that 10w-40 and other lighter oils would shear down under hard running conditions and cause accelarated bearing and camshaft wear (exception the 15w-40 mineral oils which were recommended by Porsche for years and were used as factory fill in 911's from the 1970's until the 1990's). Now German cars used in Europe mostly require that the oil used meet ACEA A3 (some new VW and Audi's are moving to lighter weight A5 oils). The predominant requirment of A3 is that the HTHS be over 3.5, which M1 0w-40 (3.6), M1 5w-40 (4.1), and M1 15w-50 (5.1); note none of the Mobil 1 30 weight oils meet that standard.
The A3 rated oils simply provide better lubercation properties, both at startup and high temperatures, than 20w-50 mineral oils. At the same time A3 rated oils also provide better miliage and lower operating tempuratures.
Bottom line is that you want to run the thinnest oil that provides protection. Reason is that as you get to heavy, wear rates increase again. Also heavy oils increase oil tempuratures and do not tranfer heat as rapidly. On average the sweet spot for low wear rates on oils appears to be at the high 30weight low 40 weight range (i.e. Mobil 0w-40, German Castrol 0w-30, Amsoil 30 weights, Redline 30 weights). Also note that some of the newer cars (specifically Hondas and the Big Ford V-10 engines) that specify 5w-20 oil from the factory are turning in incredably low wear numbers on those oils.
Concerning using Mineral oil and changing it every 2000 miles. Don't waste your time and money. The mineral oil is good for at least 4000 miles before it breaks down. If you live in a warmer climate (temps above 40f), run Chevron Delo 15w-40 ($1.25 quart) and change it every 6000.
Cary
any long term reports on Delvac 1?
[/quote]
Delvac 1 reports have been good. Mobil has just released their Mobil 1 5w-40 Synthetic SUV oil. Ignoring the name, is appears, and Mobil reps have unnofficially confirmed that it is in fact repackaged Delvac 1. This is a great deal because delvac 1 is only available in 1 gallon containers and runs $6 a quart v. the new 5w-40 sells for $4.00-$5.00 a quart.
Concerning 15w-50, there is really no need to run it. The big factor in oil breakdown is its HTHS performance at 150c (closely replicates running conditions at the cam and bearings). Generally, Synthetics will have a much higher HTHS than minerals for the same weight. If you look at the specs for cars in Europe, especially Germany you will see gradual change. It used to be that they all recomended 20w-50 for temps above 32f. The reason was that 10w-40 and other lighter oils would shear down under hard running conditions and cause accelarated bearing and camshaft wear (exception the 15w-40 mineral oils which were recommended by Porsche for years and were used as factory fill in 911's from the 1970's until the 1990's). Now German cars used in Europe mostly require that the oil used meet ACEA A3 (some new VW and Audi's are moving to lighter weight A5 oils). The predominant requirment of A3 is that the HTHS be over 3.5, which M1 0w-40 (3.6), M1 5w-40 (4.1), and M1 15w-50 (5.1); note none of the Mobil 1 30 weight oils meet that standard.
The A3 rated oils simply provide better lubercation properties, both at startup and high temperatures, than 20w-50 mineral oils. At the same time A3 rated oils also provide better miliage and lower operating tempuratures.
Bottom line is that you want to run the thinnest oil that provides protection. Reason is that as you get to heavy, wear rates increase again. Also heavy oils increase oil tempuratures and do not tranfer heat as rapidly. On average the sweet spot for low wear rates on oils appears to be at the high 30weight low 40 weight range (i.e. Mobil 0w-40, German Castrol 0w-30, Amsoil 30 weights, Redline 30 weights). Also note that some of the newer cars (specifically Hondas and the Big Ford V-10 engines) that specify 5w-20 oil from the factory are turning in incredably low wear numbers on those oils.
Concerning using Mineral oil and changing it every 2000 miles. Don't waste your time and money. The mineral oil is good for at least 4000 miles before it breaks down. If you live in a warmer climate (temps above 40f), run Chevron Delo 15w-40 ($1.25 quart) and change it every 6000.
Cary
[quote author=cary link=board=2;threadid=1585;start=msg99755#msg99755 date=1075999209]
Concerning using Mineral oil and changing it every 2000 miles. Don't waste your time and money. The mineral oil is good for at least 4000 miles before it breaks down. If you live in a warmer climate (temps above 40f), run Chevron Delo 15w-40 ($1.25 quart) and change it every 6000.
[/quote]
I probably won't change every 2000, but I could for the price difference. Also, I stock dino oil, so I really don't pay for it.
Thanks for the tip on the Chevron.
Concerning using Mineral oil and changing it every 2000 miles. Don't waste your time and money. The mineral oil is good for at least 4000 miles before it breaks down. If you live in a warmer climate (temps above 40f), run Chevron Delo 15w-40 ($1.25 quart) and change it every 6000.
[/quote]
I probably won't change every 2000, but I could for the price difference. Also, I stock dino oil, so I really don't pay for it.
Thanks for the tip on the Chevron.
6000 mi for Delo dino oil. I never seen Delo in a qt. Its about $10 a gal at truck stop.
What mi change for RotellaT syn?
What mi change for RotellaT syn?
Cruiserdrew
On the way there
You can also buy Delo 15w-40 at Costco. Here it's $36 for a 6 gallon case. I use it in my 60 and used to put it in my wife's old minivan. Hard to beat the price for such an excellent motor oil. Maybe when the 80 isn't my "good" car, I'll put Delo in that. Cary-you are probably right about the 15w-50 but it makes me feel good and the truck doesn't complain. Didn't you say one time that the Mobil 1 15w-50 is on the "thin" side of the spectrum, so maybe I'm OK. For what its worth, I havn't seen a difference in mileage 40 weight vs 50 weight.
Better I throw in my 2 cents later than not at all. If you change your oil every 3000 miles, like you should, don't waste your money on synthetics!! The oil isn't in thier long enough to make a bit of difference. If you run syn to go longer on an oil change thats your engine. NY city cab co. did a test a few years ago where they took 100 cabs, half ran only syn and the others ran normal oil. After 100,000 miles they pulled down all motors and found absolutely no difference in the motors - at all!! The reason newer motors(01 and newer Hodas) recommed a light 5w-20 oil is because the clearences in the newer motors is soooo tight that a thicker oil won't flow well enough at cold temps to lube the motor. Just my input, you do what you want with your money/engines:}
XL,
Quick point of order on the "cab" test.
That test was not done by a cab company, but by Consumer's Union. There were a number of aggregious flaws in the test, and I usually respect CU's evaluations if I ignore their tendancy to have a social agenda. Chief among these flaws was that the cabs were either never, or rarely, shut down. This negated one of the big advantages of synthetic oil - cold start wear. Around 50% of engine wear occurs during the period leading up to full engine operating temps when looking at a normal consumer's engine.
DougM
Quick point of order on the "cab" test.
That test was not done by a cab company, but by Consumer's Union. There were a number of aggregious flaws in the test, and I usually respect CU's evaluations if I ignore their tendancy to have a social agenda. Chief among these flaws was that the cabs were either never, or rarely, shut down. This negated one of the big advantages of synthetic oil - cold start wear. Around 50% of engine wear occurs during the period leading up to full engine operating temps when looking at a normal consumer's engine.
DougM
Toyota for the USA recommends 5w30 for my LC. I've alway run Mobil 1 5w30 and changed it every 5000 miles. My LC never goes over 75 mph and runs 99% of the time in the 2000-3000 rpm range. I guess I don't understand why you would use a 50 weight oil in a engine that the manufacture recommends 5w30? What do some of you know that the engineers that designed this engine don't know? ???
Any specs on the Quaker State 10W30 synthetic? It's only $30 a quart at Walmart under their own private label.
John
John
[quote author=Pitbull link=board=2;threadid=1585;start=msg100317#msg100317 date=1076077521]
Toyota for the USA recommends 5w30 for my LC. I've alway run Mobil 1 5w30 and changed it every 5000 miles. My LC never goes over 75 mph and runs 99% of the time in the 2000-3000 rpm range. I guess I don't understand why you would use a 50 weight oil in a engine that the manufacture recommends 5w30? What do some of you know that the engineers that designed this engine don't know? ???
[/quote]
Many folks steadfastly adhare to 50 year old wisdom on many many things automotive. Yearly tune-ups, jump starting procedures, pumping the gas on start up, pumping the brakes in the snow, and old engines need thick-ass oil.
Carbs no longer dump gas into the oil, engines are built better with WAY better tolerances than the bad old days. While it is true the engineers want the cars to get better gas mileage, they also design them to run well on the thinner oil.
If it's true that most wear occurs on start up, why, why, why, use 15W or 20W oil unless your engine has exterme bearing wear?
Toyota for the USA recommends 5w30 for my LC. I've alway run Mobil 1 5w30 and changed it every 5000 miles. My LC never goes over 75 mph and runs 99% of the time in the 2000-3000 rpm range. I guess I don't understand why you would use a 50 weight oil in a engine that the manufacture recommends 5w30? What do some of you know that the engineers that designed this engine don't know? ???
[/quote]
Many folks steadfastly adhare to 50 year old wisdom on many many things automotive. Yearly tune-ups, jump starting procedures, pumping the gas on start up, pumping the brakes in the snow, and old engines need thick-ass oil.
Carbs no longer dump gas into the oil, engines are built better with WAY better tolerances than the bad old days. While it is true the engineers want the cars to get better gas mileage, they also design them to run well on the thinner oil.
If it's true that most wear occurs on start up, why, why, why, use 15W or 20W oil unless your engine has exterme bearing wear?
[quote author=Gumby link=board=2;threadid=1585;start=msg100321#msg100321 date=1076078480]
Many folks steadfastly adhare to 50 year old wisdom on many many things automotive. Yearly tune-ups, jump starting procedures, pumping the gas on start up, pumping the brakes in the snow, and old engines need thick-ass oil.
Carbs no longer dump gas into the oil, engines are built better with WAY better tolerances than the bad old days. While it is true the engineers want the cars to get better gas mileage, they also design them to run well on the thinner oil.
If it's true that most wear occurs on start up, why, why, why, use 15W or 20W oil unless your engine has exterme bearing wear?
[/quote]
Maybe because the same engine overseas where's there no CAFE is spec'd w/ 10w30?
Many folks steadfastly adhare to 50 year old wisdom on many many things automotive. Yearly tune-ups, jump starting procedures, pumping the gas on start up, pumping the brakes in the snow, and old engines need thick-ass oil.
Carbs no longer dump gas into the oil, engines are built better with WAY better tolerances than the bad old days. While it is true the engineers want the cars to get better gas mileage, they also design them to run well on the thinner oil.
If it's true that most wear occurs on start up, why, why, why, use 15W or 20W oil unless your engine has exterme bearing wear?
[/quote]
Maybe because the same engine overseas where's there no CAFE is spec'd w/ 10w30?
Idaho, yes most wera does happen at start-up. However, I have personally pulled apart many an engine (i'm a Honda tech) and I personally have seen absolutly no difference in engines that run syn over conventional. It all goes back to changing oil every 3000, if thats done, I've pulled down motors with 250,000 miles and seen absolutely no sludge, and very little varnish. Again these are just my personal observations, I understand there are ALWAYS exceptions to the rule, and people will do and run what ever oil they want. Some people just feel better if they run a syn, it gives them that warm fuzzy-I'm doing something good for my car-feelling.
