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New starter just clicks too!

Discussion in '80-Series Tech' started by mtrdrms, Dec 7, 2009.

  1. mtrdrms

    mtrdrms

    Messages:
    383
    Location:
    Torrington, CT
    On Friday I thought I smoked my starter trying to loosen the crank pulley bolt so I got a new one. The new starter just clicks too! The battery is good and the connections good WTF! Can anyone suggest something here? Is there a fuse or relay that I can check?

    Thanks
  2. dgangle

    dgangle total rice SILVER Star

    Messages:
    4,006
    Location:
    Heart of Dixie
    Recheck your connections/cables and load test your battery. Nothing like the shotgun approach!
  3. mtrdrms

    mtrdrms

    Messages:
    383
    Location:
    Torrington, CT
    Im going throught the connections now but everything looks good. The battery is good also.
  4. bhmmapping

    bhmmapping SILVER Star

    Messages:
    3,579
    Location:
    Birmingham, AL
    One click or continuous clicking?
  5. mtrdrms

    mtrdrms

    Messages:
    383
    Location:
    Torrington, CT
    Just one click. Sounds like its coming from the starter. I think I blew a fuse of some sort or maybe a relay when I tried to bump the starter to get off the crank pulley bolt. BUT WHERE!?
  6. bhmmapping

    bhmmapping SILVER Star

    Messages:
    3,579
    Location:
    Birmingham, AL
  7. RedTacoma

    RedTacoma SILVER Star

    Messages:
    355
    Looks good ?

    If you hear a click at the starter but no spiining then

    a) your battery supply wire (I think black) is not connected or connected wrongly
    b) Your ground is not working on the starter (doubt thats the problem if starter clicks but it could be partial ground)
    c) a electric motor is dead.

    So to check.

    Make sure you get at least 12 v at the black wire terminal.
    Check if you have 12V between battery and the casing of the starter.
    If all checks good i would suggest removing starter and going to Autozone for them to test the elec motor.
    Check connection at the battery.
    Hope it helps
  8. FrankTorres

    FrankTorres

    Messages:
    270
    Location:
    Cedar Park, Texas
    Like Matt saids, a worn ignition switch is my guess also.
    I ran a Cole Hersee relay and use the antenna down button to start the Cruiser. This after my ignition switch finally gave out.

    Just put 12volts to the solenoid to see if it cranks...
  9. mtrdrms

    mtrdrms

    Messages:
    383
    Location:
    Torrington, CT
    When should I have 12 volts to the solenoid? When the key is in the start or on position?
  10. lacruiser

    lacruiser

    Messages:
    874
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    In the start posiition. this is the signal from the ign switch to energize the starter solenoid. When the engine has started and is running, you let go of the ign switch, the switch goes to "on" and the starter signal is cut, so the starter should stop spinning.

    What they're saying in all this is that the signal should be close to 12v, not around 10v. Just run a wire down from the positive side of the battery and power up the solenoid directly to test it. If it cranks fine with direct supply to the solenoid, you've got a problem in the ignition (start) signal circuit. the quick and easy way to cure this is by adding a relay, as suggested. This will use the weak (10v) signal from the ign switch to power the relay (10v is enough to trip the relay) to switch over the heavier current from the battery so that it gets a nice strong 12v to the solenoid.

    Someone else mentioned ground. This is also often forgotten, and when talking about the starter, is very important, as it draws a ton of current. Make sure you have a good ground to the engine block and head. There are some straps somehwere (I have a diesel, I don't know where they are on the gas trucks) that will extend from the chassis to the engine block, OR the negative battery cable will connect directly to the engine block. Remove and clean ALL these conections, make sure they are shiny and bright where the lug connects to the body or engine block.

    BTW, due to ground issues, you may have a significantly different reading when reading your ign signal, depending upon where you take your ground from. If you hook your black lead from the meter to the engine block and get 10v off the ign signal lead, try again by moving the ground lead to the neg terminal of the battery and then read it again. If it goes up quite a bit, you've definitely got a ground issue somewhere. This difference is magnified when you start pulling heavy current, like the starter.
  11. CreeperSleeper

    CreeperSleeper Cascade Cruisers Prez. SILVER Star

    Messages:
    5,531
    Location:
    Wilsonville, OR
    I know that you have said the battery is good but how many volts does it have sitting there? These I6's take a lot of juice to spin. Everything else (lights, radio, etc) will be working fine but there is a chance that there is still not enough juice to spin the engine over.

  12. ralphy1997

    ralphy1997

    Messages:
    293
    Location:
    Boise, Idaho
    Don't rule out the chance that you got a bad starter. Was it brand new or a reman? You could always pull it and have it tested at your local auto parts store.
  13. IdahoDoug

    IdahoDoug

    Messages:
    8,780
    I'm not going into the garage for the FSM with temps at 4 degrees right now, but could it be the infamous fusible links coming off the positive terminal? I can't recall if the starter has its own separate dedicated power cable from the battery. If not, and power goes through these fusible links, then perhaps you weakened them with the crank bolt episode. In the old days, we used to simply put a jumper cable from the battery to the positive side of the starter and get a direct shot. Of course in the old days we also used to wear powder blue leisure suits and thought we were cool, but that's another story.

    DougM
  14. Driley

    Driley

    Messages:
    714
    Location:
    Bend, Oregon
    Sweet! Made me laugh!

    Nothing really technical to add to the discussion. When my starter was acting up, I changed the plunger + contacts then ended up putting a rebuilt OEM in. No problems since.

    As asked before, was the replacement starter an OEM?

    Thanks Doug for the laugh!

    Riley
  15. agomez

    agomez

    Messages:
    1,197
    Location:
    San Antonio, Texas
    use another good battery....I had the same problem the battery was on the brink of going bad....
  16. mtrdrms

    mtrdrms

    Messages:
    383
    Location:
    Torrington, CT
    Ok guys. Thanks for all the input. The starter is a rebuilt denso from a local guy in Collinsville CT, good unit and not the problem. Heres what happened. I was getting good voltage across the battery but to be safe and rule it out I plugged in a charger/starter and attached it the batt and still just a click. So I cleaned all the grounds (fender, block and battery) still nothing. SO I tested voltage at the positive wire at the starter and there was nothing. I mean like less than 1 volt so I bypassed the positive wire and put 12 volts to the starter and it cranked.
    It was the pos wire from the batt to the starter that was my problem. Once I replaced it and both terminals at the battery, its good to go. I inspected the old wire and found extensive corrosion on the wire and the casing. Hope this helps someone else in the future.
    Thanks again for all the input!

    Andy
  17. Bong

    Bong

    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    why not replace the ignition switch & harness?

    Hi- I've read quite a few solution posts about installing a relay to the starter and I'm curious why I wouldn't just replace the ignition switch harness with a new one if that's really what's at fault? I'm facing the same issues on both of my Cruisers and I'm seeing the switch for $76 at Champion Toyota
    thx- Bong
  18. lacruiser

    lacruiser

    Messages:
    874
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Because it's probably a series of small "failures" over several components that add up to the problem, rather than just one specific component. As parts age, they become less efficient. There is the ignition switch itself, the neutral safety switch on the trans, several connectors here and there. All in all, probably at least a half-dozen spots where resistance has increased. Add that all up and you'll see some significant voltage drop by the time you arrive at the starter solenoid.

    You can replace everything and restore it all to brand-new. $$$$$$$$

    Or, you can use that weak signal at the solenoid to trigger a relay that will switch a robust 12v right from the battery into the solenoid. Problem solved for only a few $$.

    It's a work-around, but a very cheap, permanent, and effective one. The diesels come with a relay already, I don't know why they didn't put them on the gas trucks.

    If you wanted to try and stay original, simply replacing the harness is, in all likelihood, not going to fix it. The actual wires in the harness don't really wear out, but the plugs on the ends of the harness may develop resistance.

    Instead, trace out the entire circuit, unplug each plug along the way, and re-insert it several times. This will wipe the contacts and establish a fresh bite, hopefully reducing the resistance at that juncture. do this everywhere along the line.

    Disassemble and clean the transmission safety switch, or measure it's resistance and replace it if you like. Clean up the plug going into it as well. All the way to the solenoid signal wire itself, make sure that connection is nice and clean.

    Then see if it works. If it doesn't, just put in a relay and forget about it.
  19. Bong

    Bong

    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Thank you very much for your detailed answer! I'm 40, just started being my own mechanic and I'm loving every minute of it- but I have a lot of catching up to do. it's all these subtle details that help so much.
    -Kevin

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