Help with purchase (4 Viewers)

[studawg]

Ill be honest, you likely just passed up a good TLC for a stupid reason.

New shocks are not evidence of a prior lift and there is no evidence of previous rock sliders. Regardless, off road driving is easier on these vehicles than city driving. One could even argue that a vehicle that is taken off-road is likely owned by some type of enthusiast and the vehicle may likely be taken better care of than just a commuter/daily driver/ kid-hauler.

Question, the mechanic you took it to, had he ever even seen a 200 before? Getting "inspections" from 3rd parties who are invested in working on vehicles for a living rarely produce objective results.

People need to trust their own judgment more. If you can see, smell, hear and drive, you can inspect a vehicle.

And was that a black/tan 2011 from SC? Dang, that's a unicorn. The frame looks great, is it still available?

 

[RockyTop89]

Ill be honest, you likely just passed up a good TLC for a stupid reason.

New shocks are not evidence of a prior lift and there is no evidence of previous rock sliders. Regardless, off road driving is easier on these vehicles than city driving. One could even argue that a vehicle that is taken off-road is likely owned by some type of enthusiast and the vehicle may likely be taken better care of than just a commuter/daily driver/ kid-hauler.

Question, the mechanic you took it to, had he ever even seen a 200 before? Getting "inspections" from 3rd parties who are invested in working on vehicles for a living rarely produce objective results.

People need to trust their own judgment more. If you can see, smell, hear and drive, you can inspect a vehicle.

And was that a black/tan 2011 from SC? Dang, that's a unicorn. The frame looks great, is it still available?

That black LC also had a brand new radiator and there was coolant residue all over the engine bay from what looked like the original one blowing up. There was also evidence that it had been towed. The dealer would not let the mechanic test drive the vehicle and they had problems starting it to get it to where he could inspect it. I’m 7 hours away and just decided to pass on it. Could be a good deal, not sure.

Looks like it sold

 

[studawg]

Ok and it could be good you passed on it, not sure. I just see people getting hung up on one aspect of a vehicle and passing on it when they shouldn't have passed on it, at least for that reason. When you cant be there in person, you just have to get the info you can get and make the best decision you can. But after buying 100s of LCs from all over the US, many sight unseen, I dont trust ANYONE anymore. I dont trust private sellers any more than I trust dealers any more than I trust mechanics or "inspections" done by 3rd parties who are invested in working on cars for a living.

If there were signs that it overheated and was towed, that might be a good reason to pass when you cant verify for sure.

Can you point me to where you saw it?

 

[2021 LC200]

Thanks for the explanation Fronts are original. The mechanic that inspected the vehicle told me there were a few red flags, but the biggest one was not letting him drive the vehicle. I simply wanted him to run through the gears and they would not let him take it down the street. So I’m moving on from this one.

That is so bad of the sellers. Be nice to report to the CARFAX “police”…

Yes, definitely move on. There are plenty on the market at all sorts of prices and miles driven.

 

[bloc]

If you can see, smell, hear and drive, you can inspect a vehicle.

That may be true for someone with a technical background or copious research of a given platform to know what issues to look for.

But lots and lots of people don’t know what to look/listen/smell/feel for when inspecting a vehicle and it totally makes sense to pay a third party to do so.

The difference between the timing chain tensioner rattle and normal valve clatter on a 3UR is a good example.

 

[linuxgod]

The difference between the timing chain tensioner rattle and normal valve clatter on a 3UR is a good example.

Oh you can definitely tell the difference, it doesn't even take a trained ear. My son heard it a few weeks ago, though it didn't really show up in the iphone video he took, and everything sounded normal later when I started the truck up. I heard mine rattling last week though... wife had driven a few miles so the engine was partially warm when I started it. Definitely an unnerving ticking/tapping sound coming from the front driver's side. I don't normally hear it on startup so it's not a constant thing. I've read on the Tundra forums people running like this a long time. At some point I may bite the bullet and have it handled since I have a slight timing chain cover leak, but unless someone reports that the noise is a sign of impending doom I'm holding out until it's a regular and repeatable occurrence or until my timing cover is leaking a lot since the repair is $3k for the timing cover but an extra $50 for the faulty tensioner.

 

[2021 LC200]

Oh you can definitely tell the difference, it doesn't even take a trained ear. My son heard it a few weeks ago, though it didn't really show up in the iphone video he took, and everything sounded normal later when I started the truck up. I heard mine rattling last week though... wife had driven a few miles so the engine was partially warm when I started it. Definitely an unnerving ticking/tapping sound coming from the front driver's side. I don't normally hear it on startup so it's not a constant thing. I've read on the Tundra forums people running like this a long time. At some point I may bite the bullet and have it handled since I have a slight timing chain cover leak, but unless someone reports that the noise is a sign of impending doom I'm holding out until it's a regular and repeatable occurrence or until my timing cover is leaking a lot since the repair is $3k for the timing cover but an extra $50 for the faulty tensioner.

Linux, I know you are frequent MUD participant, so you probably already got this figured out. What I am thinking here is how to get back on track once this problem starts or maybe prevent it all together. Seems enough pressure on the tensioner "actuator" or "operator" could be the root cause. I can see see using a Toyota OEM filter or not (one actually purchased from the dealer direct to make sure it is genuine and has a pressure drop within spec) and 5W30 vs 0W20 allowing the oil pump to deliver a little more pressure may resolve this issue. Your thoughts? You maybe doing both already.

 

[linuxgod]

Linux, I know you are frequent MUD participant, so you probably already got this figured out. What I am thinking here is how to get back on track once this problem starts or maybe prevent it all together. Seems enough pressure on the tensioner "actuator" or "operator" could be the root cause. I can see see using a Toyota OEM filter or not (one actually purchased from the dealer direct to make sure it is genuine and has a pressure drop within spec) and 5W30 vs 0W20 allowing the oil pump to deliver a little more pressure may resolve this issue. Your thoughts? You maybe doing both already.

Thanks. I don't feel like I have anything figured out at this point. I'm not even 100% sure of the noise, but after seeing a Tundra video with a 3UR making it I feel pretty confident it's the same issue.

Dealer did my oil change, so I'll assume they used the Toyota filter but who knows? They used 0W-20... I'd switched to 5W-30 last summer when I had the oil changed at a shop around the corner as (a) it's better for towing and (b) I'd heard a rattly noise on initial startup one cold winter day early last year... but I forgot to tell them to do the same so they used the specified oil this time. I planned to switch back next oil change (likely after returning from Cruise Moab) so we'll see if it helps. It's something you can't hear from inside the truck... I only heard it because my wife opened her door and I could hear the sound bouncing around off the surfaces of my garage, but inside the truck it was not audible.

 

[bloc]

It can definitely get audible inside the car, as I’ve had in the past. 5w-30 seems to help, as I’ve been running that for the past 40k and can’t remember a single occurrence of the chain rattle. Before that on 0w-20 it happened intermittently, maybe once every six months. Cold oil did seem to make it worse, but 5w-30 is thicker and that helped.

Genuine Toyota or TRD filters don’t seem to matter.

When it’s bad it is really bad.. sounded like rod knock. And that was kindof my point.. someone reading about it and not knowing the difference may hear the standard valve tap and think that’s the chain tensioner issue, and basically write off any 3UR they find. Some education and experience on this stuff is important for someone doing their own inspections.

As for tensioner related failures.. I do believe I Do Cars has torn down a 3UR with chain or guide failure for which the tensioners almost certainly contributed, but the rest of that engine wasn’t in great condition anyway. I think it leading to drama is possible but unlikely. Kinda like the valve spring issue.

 

[linuxgod]

It can definitely get audible inside the car, as I’ve had in the past. 5w-30 seems to help, as I’ve been running that for the past 40k and can’t remember a single occurrence of the chain rattle. Before that on 0w-20 it happened intermittently, maybe once every six months. Cold oil did seem to make it worse, but 5w-30 is thicker and that helped.

Genuine Toyota or TRD filters don’t seem to matter.

When it’s bad it is really bad.. sounded like rod knock. And that was kindof my point.. someone reading about it and not knowing the difference may hear the standard valve tap and think that’s the chain tensioner issue, and basically write off any 3UR they find. Some education and experience on this stuff is important for someone doing their own inspections.

As for tensioner related failures.. I do believe I Do Cars has torn down a 3UR with chain or guide failure for which the tensioners almost certainly contributed, but the rest of that engine wasn’t in great condition anyway. I think it leading to drama is possible but unlikely. Kinda like the valve spring issue.

Thanks @bloc. I'm pretty sure I've seen some other posts of yours saying this before too, but I hadn't tried to search the forum. Good to hear 5w-30 has been working well for you still. I think you've got about 50k on your rig more than I do. I was actually surprised when I heard it at the engine temp was probably 120-130F on the gauge, but I guess that makes sense... warmer oil is thinner and perhaps not building the same pressure in the tensioner.

Personally I like the sound of people writing off vehicles because they don't understand them. Hopefully there's an innocuous but occasionally noticeable noise the new GX550 Overtrail+ makes which will cause the value to plummet and let some of us take advantage.

 

[2021 LC200]

While lower viscosity 0W20 could have lower pressure drop in the oil channels and ports going to the tensioner, the oil pump will produce less head with the same. Based on experience on this forum with 5W30 or other higher vis than 0W20 formulations, I would make that change soonest.

Especially as it appears EPA was behind the change to 0W20 and the original design of the 3UR-FE specified 5W30, unless extreme cold conditions or extreme hot. I am now at 35k miles and going to do my own oil changes and will switch to 5W30. I will also keep changing every 5000 miles to facilitate best engine cleanliness and components therein such as the tensioner.

 

[linuxgod]

While lower viscosity 0W20 could have lower pressure drop in the oil channels and ports going to the tensioner, the oil pump will produce less head with the same. Based on experience on this forum with 5W30 or other higher vis than 0W20 formulations, I would make that change soonest.

Especially as it appears EPA was behind the change to 0W20 and the original design of the 3UR-FE specified 5W30, unless extreme cold conditions or extreme hot. I am now at 35k miles and going to do my own oil changes and will switch to 5W30. I will also keep changing every 5000 miles to facilitate best engine cleanliness and components therein such as the tensioner.

Define extreme cold? We had a few mornings below 0F here this winter, though the rest of the winter has been surprisingly mild for Chicago.

I will switch back before I tow again this summer. Not too concerned between now and April... 0W-20 will work fine for now. I typically do oil changes every 6k or so, maybe a bit longer if we're traveling. I've had Blackstone do an oil analysis a few times and even with a combination of pure city driving and then towing with the engine humming at 3000 RPMs for thousands of miles it's always come back as "looks great, TBN is still high, run it for 2k miles more next time and send us another sample".

 

[2021 LC200]

This is what you can find for the LC200 in the global market manuals. Looks like 5W30 is good for 0 degr F and even lower. No mention of 0W20. I would study whether 0W40 is an option in your case to enable the cold start yet have sufficient viscosity as things heat up.

Going 5W30 seems the way for most conditions unless further North in Canada so it seems.

Perhaps you have ability to park indoors and can minimize the very cold start conditions in the winter?

Amsoil chart showing 5W30 down to -30 degr F or -34 degr C. That is very cold for main US and lots of Canada.

 

[linuxgod]

This is what you can find for the LC200 in the global market manuals. Looks like 5W30 is good for 0 degr F and even lower. No mention of 0W20. I would study whether 0W40 is an option in your case to enable the cold start yet have sufficient viscosity as things heat up.

Going 5W30 seems the way for most conditions unless further North in Canada so it seems.

Perhaps you have ability to park indoors and can minimize the very cold start conditions in the winter?

View attachment 3579647

Amsoil chart showing 5W30 down to -30 degr F or -34 degr C. That is very cold for main US and lots of Canada.
View attachment 3579676

Yeah in reality 5W30 seems fine. And TBH I would have used that if I’d remember to tell the shop

Indoors… I have an unheated, in insulated, detached garage, so not much help there.