Front Outside Wheel Bearing made groove in thrust washer? (1 Viewer)

[bajaphile]

Just rebuilt front axle this weekend.

Once open, everything inside was clearly rebuilt "recently"... I've had the truck for 3 years, but only put about 5k miles on it. I bought it from my buddy who put about 5k on it as well. Previous owner must have had someone rebuilt it.

Anyways -- all components looked amazing, except that the thrust washer had about a 0.125" wide by 0.020" deep grove embedded in it from what it looks like the outer wheel bearing rotating on it.

For the crap of it, I had measured wheel bearing preload before dis-assembly at about 6lb...which seems a bit low. Anyways -- my question is was this caused by over or under preload setting? Assuming its because of low preload? Any other factors? All seals, bearings looked great. No diff fluid mixing, etc.

 

[inkpot]

Yes

No

Put some serious torque on those nuts. Lots of discussion elsewhere on this form . John

 

[LFD2037]

Off topic but your Avatar pic looks really familiar!

 

[inkpot]

Who, me? I built that Piggy and wheeled it over 25 years. Had to sell it a couple years ago after getting laid off. Been here in the Phoenix area all that time. John

 

[LFD2037]

Who, me? I built that Piggy and wheeled it over 25 years. Had to sell it a couple years ago after getting laid off. Been here in the Phoenix area all that time. John

No, bajaphile's avatar.

 

[ginericLC]

It was loose at one time. Make sure it is snug when you reassemble it.

 

[bajaphile]

Off topic but your Avatar pic looks really familiar!

Hah... are you into black metal?? It's an album cover from Satanic Warmaster - Opferblut.

Ok -- Well I guess thats good. I torqued back to spec from what I read here. I put a 45 in-lbs on inner nut and 47 ft-lbs on the outer. Measured 10lbs preload with fish scale (I know people don't care about that anymore).

 

[C6H12O6]

Mine were also grooved and wheel bearing was loose. Trying to chase down a wobbling front end problem in another thread. I just ordered new thrust washers from Toyota. $6ish for the pair. Cheap insurance, I guess. I used 45 in-lbs. when I rebuilt the front end and things loosened back up a bit. Tried the Landtank preload method and I'm still having issues with the bearings loosening up. I think. Going to replace the washers and see if that makes a difference.

 

[bajaphile]

Interesting. Yeah I just flipped mine around. Wheel bearings loosening eh? That's weird. I've read guys who will use a bit more preload especially with larger tires and if it is wheeled often.

 

[C6H12O6]

I think it's pretty normal for them to loosen up after a few thousand miles when you replace them. Not sure what was up after this last time. Maybe my grooves were deep enough that things settled in after I torqued them. Or, they are perfectly fine and my wobble is due to the calipers that are slated for replacement this weekend. I'm going to replace the washers anyway. Too cheap to keep worrying about them and another part to check of the list of potential sources of my wobble.

 

[BILT4ME]

You are supposed to torque them to 45 LB-FT while rotating. This is important. Then you stop and loosen it. Then torque to 35 LB-FT while rotating. Then torque the lock nut to 45 LB-FT and bend over tabs.

 

[C6H12O6]

Looked at the FSM again. Not sure what I was thinking about the 45 in-lb. Used my smaller torque wrench, I thought. Not sure. I tried following the FSM exactly, so I would have gone to 43 ft-lb, then back off.

BILT4ME, where are you getting the 35 ft-lb for the inner nut? Haven't seen that anywhere. Landtank method is only 10 ft-lb for that inner nut. I tried that last time and it gave me a spring tension gauge measurement (digital fish scale) right smack in the middle of the FSM range, though I didn't use that for the adjustment. Just 10 ft-lb on the inner nut, then lock the outer down to 47 ft-lb.

 

[bajaphile]

You are supposed to torque them to 45 LB-FT while rotating. This is important. Then you stop and loosen it. Then torque to 35 LB-FT while rotating. Then torque the lock nut to 45 LB-FT and bend over tabs.

35 FT-LB ??? Are you sure about that? I thought it was more like 45 INCH-LBS which is about 4 FT-LBS. Either way, yeah I torqued, moved my wheels around a bit in both directions, then re-torqued, moved more, then loosened then down to 5 FT-LBS. Lock nut to 45 FT-LBS.

 

[Tools R Us]

... Anyways -- all components looked amazing, except that the thrust washer had about a 0.125" wide by 0.020" deep grove embedded in it from what it looks like the outer wheel bearing rotating on it.

Normal, expected, from running too light of a bearing preload allowing the bearings to move around. I'm not convinced that it is a bad thing, the washer is broken in to fit? We run the washers on the belt sander to flatten them before installing. Most of them are not flat, especially new ones, the stamping processes makes them curved, like a spring washer, once installed, they flatten, likely contributing to the loss of preload that is commonly experienced?

For the crap of it, I had measured wheel bearing preload before dis-assembly at about 6lb...which seems a bit low. ...

Did you check for play before removing the tire? Have played with the fish scale and found it to be very inconstant, angle, how hard it was pulled, condition/age of the seals and grease made a big difference. With new seals, fresh grease, the base/zero drag was pretty high. This inconstancy is one of the reasons that I don't use the fish scale.

35 FT-LB ??? ...

I use 35ft/lb for big tire/often wheeled rigs, smaller tires, less wheeled, 25ft/lb. Did some testing a long time ago: https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/he...el-bearing-preload.363238/page-2#post-5295151

 

[BILT4ME]

35 FT-LB ??? Are you sure about that? I thought it was more like 45 INCH-LBS which is about 4 FT-LBS. Either way, yeah I torqued, moved my wheels around a bit in both directions, then re-torqued, moved more, then loosened then down to 5 FT-LBS. Lock nut to 45 FT-LBS.

Yup! (Lb-Ft)

I am actually following the procedure for a 1978 3/4 Ton Chevrolet 4x4 (K2500). This has worked VERY well for me on both my LC and my '69 Chev.

@Tools R Us has given the procedure for many and it is well documented that it works!

 

[bajaphile]

Ah! OK thanks for the link. I might go back and retorque the nut then.

 

[orangefj45]

It's extremely common that the washer has a groove worn in it. I'd say 90% of the time when we rebuild knuckles we also replace the spindle lock set which includes the washer, both nuts and the locking tab washer. The knuckle kits almost always include the locking tab washers as well but they're great spares to have on hand when it's time to re-set the wheel bearing preload since they're a one-time-use item.
I switched over to the Terrain Tamer brand spindle lock kits a few months ago sine the nuts are much better quality than the other kits I've used.
Georg @ Valley Hybrids