I recently bought a '76 FJ40, and know no history on it. It has the power steering in the pics below. It seems to be leaking at the input shaft, but I don't know what it is to get e replacement seal. Can any of you gurus ID it?
Can you ID this power steering? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter TLC76
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Dave,
Looks like a Sagina box to me.
has the exact same mill marks (flower blossom) 3 places as mine, but the numbers are way lower.
I removed mine from a 1984 Jeep Cherokee,along with the P/S pump hoses steering column and steering linkage and installed it in my 1976 FJ40.
Jeep used a GM steering column for 1984.
The GM parts dept. may be able to cross reff. for you.
Al
Looks like a Sagina box to me.
has the exact same mill marks (flower blossom) 3 places as mine, but the numbers are way lower.
I removed mine from a 1984 Jeep Cherokee,along with the P/S pump hoses steering column and steering linkage and installed it in my 1976 FJ40.
Jeep used a GM steering column for 1984.
The GM parts dept. may be able to cross reff. for you.
Al
definitely a saginaw box....you might want to beef up the crossmember where the PO hacked it out for the conversion....
.....X3...Saginaw
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That mounting plate looks like a nice home-made rig, I agree with cruiserstuff, though, see if someone can fab up a reinforcement plate for that corssmember, with enough torque in all the wrong places you'll lose it.
- Thread starter
- #6
Thanks for the feedback, yeah I need to weld some sort of reinforcing around that. I have a Warn 8274 to mount, perhaps I can work up some good bracing and integrate it with the winch mount. The PO was definatly no craftsmen, I don't think there's a single grommet left in the rig.
Is the mounting plate welded all the way to the cross member? Looks like it only goes about half way. Is the weld underneath all the way?
dgangle
total rice
To get the input seal you have to buy a complete rebuild kit and it ain't easy to change out.
As cheap and plentiful as they are, I would say replace the steering box. Any junkyard in America is going to have an 800-series Saginaw box that will work for you for $50 or less is you shop around. I have never paid more that $35 for one. They came in virtually every full-sized GM passenger car from the the early 60's to late 80's and on lots of jeeps. Do not use a box from a GM truck as they may appear nearly identical but mount outside the frame.
Things to consider:
1. Somewhere around 1980, the fitting went from flare to O-ring.
2. There are two differnt input shaft diameters and spline counts.
3. There are boxes with 3 and 4 mounting bolts.
4. There are 3.5 and 4 turn boxes, the latter being somewhat harder to find unless you buy it reman for several hundred $$.
#1 is important to you unless you want to get into having new hoses made.
#2 is very important to you unless you want to have to buy a different input spud shaft and go through the effort of changing it out.
#3 & 4 shouldn't be dealbreakers but you need to be aware.
Make some calls, pull your box and take it to the dismantler so you can match up #1&2.
Last, the reason they typically leak at the input seal is due to frame flex and having a homegrown or early-design solid (read no flex joint) steering shaft. If you have a rigid steering shaft and you do not fix this problem your leak is bound to return. BTDT.
As cheap and plentiful as they are, I would say replace the steering box. Any junkyard in America is going to have an 800-series Saginaw box that will work for you for $50 or less is you shop around. I have never paid more that $35 for one. They came in virtually every full-sized GM passenger car from the the early 60's to late 80's and on lots of jeeps. Do not use a box from a GM truck as they may appear nearly identical but mount outside the frame.
Things to consider:
1. Somewhere around 1980, the fitting went from flare to O-ring.
2. There are two differnt input shaft diameters and spline counts.
3. There are boxes with 3 and 4 mounting bolts.
4. There are 3.5 and 4 turn boxes, the latter being somewhat harder to find unless you buy it reman for several hundred $$.
#1 is important to you unless you want to get into having new hoses made.
#2 is very important to you unless you want to have to buy a different input spud shaft and go through the effort of changing it out.
#3 & 4 shouldn't be dealbreakers but you need to be aware.
Make some calls, pull your box and take it to the dismantler so you can match up #1&2.
Last, the reason they typically leak at the input seal is due to frame flex and having a homegrown or early-design solid (read no flex joint) steering shaft. If you have a rigid steering shaft and you do not fix this problem your leak is bound to return. BTDT.
I bought a sector shaft seal at my local Carquest it is available with out the full rebuild kit. just ask for a mid 70s big body gm car. that's what I did.Replaced it and no more leaks. just make sure the shaft dosnt have any slop in it.
kyle
kyle
dgangle
total rice
He says it's leaking at the input shaft, not the sector shaft.
From: http://www.off-roadweb.com/tech/0501or_4wd_steering_box/index.html
"The sector shaft is the output of the steering box. This splined shaft exits the bottom of the box, and the pitman arm attaches here. A steering tie rod then attaches to the pitman arm."
From: http://www.off-roadweb.com/tech/0501or_4wd_steering_box/index.html
"The sector shaft is the output of the steering box. This splined shaft exits the bottom of the box, and the pitman arm attaches here. A steering tie rod then attaches to the pitman arm."
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sorry for the wrong word i did get the seal kit for the input shaft at carguest. i was mistaken on the wordage 
. please forgive me o mighty d. anyway it is available and the seal surface is the same diameter it doesn't change because the splines are different. I just did a quick search at NAPA and they have the input seal kit Part# NPS7367 check it out
kyle
. please forgive me o mighty d. anyway it is available and the seal surface is the same diameter it doesn't change because the splines are different. I just did a quick search at NAPA and they have the input seal kit Part# NPS7367 check it outkyle
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- Thread starter
- #12
Awesome, I'll look for it tomorrow. If worst comes to worse I guess I can rebuild it and tap it for future ram assist. To answer a couple earlier questions, the steering has 2 flex joints, one right at the box, and another about 12" from the firewall. The plate is welded top and bottom, as well as to the crossmember. I will add reinforcing at that crossmember where they hacked it out.
dgangle
total rice
2 flex joints (universal joints) are not going to provide the ability of the shaft length to change...that's what needed when the frame flexes to prevent undue stress on the input of the Saginaw steering box and thus causing input shaft leaks, IME. You may have it...just pointing out what I have determined to be a problem with the early and some homebrew designs. In this picture the slip is incorporated here circled in yellow.
Oh and if one is going to give advice I would think that it's imperative to get the terminology right. Especially when the incorrect terminology refers to something irrelevant to issue being addressed.
Oh and if one is going to give advice I would think that it's imperative to get the terminology right. Especially when the incorrect terminology refers to something irrelevant to issue being addressed.
dgangle
total rice
anutha pic
- Thread starter
- #15
I'll take a closer look tomorrow, and see if it has a "linear variable accomodation device"
- Thread starter
- #16
I looked it over, there does not appear to be any slipjoint in the steering assembly (unless it's inside the tube of the GM column?). So what cost effective options are there to remedy this? I don't want to bother fixing any seals etc until I get the stress off the input.
dgangle
total rice
That's good planning. I am glad I was able to point this out as a possible cause of your seal failure. Like I said, I have been there but went through several boxes in a few years B4 I found the real problem.
The only solution that I am aware is to buy this spud/slip shaft from one of the vendors like MAF or Downey. I have read that one is also available from Flaming River and these are available through Summit Racing Equipment. Sorry, not part number or other reference. The last one I installed was in 2001. I ordered the AA but returned it because at least at that time the shaft was solid with no slip. I bought the Downey and have been running it since. AA 'may' have updated their design since then but I am unfamiliar. Honestly, I would buy the Downey part and be done with it.
http://www.downeyoff-road.com/ChassisComponents/SteeringConversions.html 2/3 down the page $185.
A few years ago I sat next to one of the owners of Flaming River on a flight to Cleveland, OH where they are located. He told me if I ever needed any thing to simply call and explain what I was doing and they do all kinds of unique stuff.
Whoever you buy from, you will need to supply them at a minimum the input shaft diameter and spline count as there are three different depending on the vintage of the steering box.
The only solution that I am aware is to buy this spud/slip shaft from one of the vendors like MAF or Downey. I have read that one is also available from Flaming River and these are available through Summit Racing Equipment. Sorry, not part number or other reference. The last one I installed was in 2001. I ordered the AA but returned it because at least at that time the shaft was solid with no slip. I bought the Downey and have been running it since. AA 'may' have updated their design since then but I am unfamiliar. Honestly, I would buy the Downey part and be done with it.
http://www.downeyoff-road.com/ChassisComponents/SteeringConversions.html 2/3 down the page $185.
A few years ago I sat next to one of the owners of Flaming River on a flight to Cleveland, OH where they are located. He told me if I ever needed any thing to simply call and explain what I was doing and they do all kinds of unique stuff.
Whoever you buy from, you will need to supply them at a minimum the input shaft diameter and spline count as there are three different depending on the vintage of the steering box.
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Getting ready to pull my whole ps steering system and replace. Thought this might help some. I've got a 3/4" solid shaft with a u-joint before the input shaft, and leaking at the input shaft. Been doing my research and I have part numbers. I'm replacing the column as well. I replaced the hoses when I replaced the pump. Earl's plumbing hose and parts have worked flawlessly. The hose numbers are at the end. I'm getting the floor mount and new box from BTB.
Flaming River FR20114 Steering Column Mount, Aluminum, Natural, 2.00 in. Diameter, 0.0 in. Drop, Each $85.95
Flaming River FR30001-32BK Steering Column, Classic Bell, Tilt, Steel, Black, 32 in. Length, 2 in. Diameter, Accepts Ignition Switch $609.95
Borgeson 3/4"DD-1"DD w/vibration reducer 154952 (Flaming river has as well)
Borgeson 3/4-30 spline - 1"DD 115231
Borgeson 36" telescoping shaft 450036 $74.99
Earl's plumbing -6AN to 18mm x 1.50 991956ERL $6.95 - for new box
Earl's plumbing -6AN to 16mm x 1.50 991955ERL $6.25 - for new box
AGR Power Steering Pump, Saginaw P Series 807256 $149.95
Earl's Plumbing Hose, Power Steering, -6 AN, 6 ft. Length 130606ERL $37.39
3- Earl's Plumbing Fitting, Hose End, Power Steering, 90 Degree, -6 AN Hose, JIC Female 9/16 in.-18, Steel, Zinc, 139106ERL Each $15.99
2- Earl's plumbing Fitting, Straight, -6 AN Male to 5/8-18 in. Inverted Flare, Aluminum, Blue, 991947ERL Each $5.95 *old box
Earl's Plumbing Fitting, Power Steering Adapter, -6 AN Hose End to 11/16-18 Thr, Alum, Blue, 991950ERL Each $5.95
dangle - Thanks, you saved me a lot of time and grief.
Flaming River FR20114 Steering Column Mount, Aluminum, Natural, 2.00 in. Diameter, 0.0 in. Drop, Each $85.95
Flaming River FR30001-32BK Steering Column, Classic Bell, Tilt, Steel, Black, 32 in. Length, 2 in. Diameter, Accepts Ignition Switch $609.95
Borgeson 3/4"DD-1"DD w/vibration reducer 154952 (Flaming river has as well)
Borgeson 3/4-30 spline - 1"DD 115231
Borgeson 36" telescoping shaft 450036 $74.99
Earl's plumbing -6AN to 18mm x 1.50 991956ERL $6.95 - for new box
Earl's plumbing -6AN to 16mm x 1.50 991955ERL $6.25 - for new box
AGR Power Steering Pump, Saginaw P Series 807256 $149.95
Earl's Plumbing Hose, Power Steering, -6 AN, 6 ft. Length 130606ERL $37.39
3- Earl's Plumbing Fitting, Hose End, Power Steering, 90 Degree, -6 AN Hose, JIC Female 9/16 in.-18, Steel, Zinc, 139106ERL Each $15.99
2- Earl's plumbing Fitting, Straight, -6 AN Male to 5/8-18 in. Inverted Flare, Aluminum, Blue, 991947ERL Each $5.95 *old box
Earl's Plumbing Fitting, Power Steering Adapter, -6 AN Hose End to 11/16-18 Thr, Alum, Blue, 991950ERL Each $5.95
dangle - Thanks, you saved me a lot of time and grief.
dgangle
total rice
No problem. Glad to help and this is what it's all about, right?
Do us a favor and layout all these parts, photograph and post up for future reference. I'd like to learn more of how you skinned this cat, especially the lines, AN adapters, Borgeson parts, etc.
Do us a favor and layout all these parts, photograph and post up for future reference. I'd like to learn more of how you skinned this cat, especially the lines, AN adapters, Borgeson parts, etc.
- Thread starter
- #20
sorry for the wrong word i did get the seal kit for the input shaft at carguest. i was mistaken on the wordage
kyle
Just a follow up on this, I went to NAPA and bought this, it was less than $20 with tax, title and doc fees. Below is a pic of the parts contained in the kit (pic is of the old parts).
I also reinforced the cross brace with my new plasma cutter and old MIG
, below are the before and after pics.Steering is also being upgraded, below are a couple pics of the existing steering shafts and ujoints, and the new Borgeson slip joint and ujoint. I ordered the wrong part for my steering box end, so waiting for the replacement to get it in.
