6th Gen 4Runner news and rumors (6 Viewers)

[M1911]

Poor argument. They’ve never had to differentiate it from a Land Cruiser Prado in the US. They haven’t had a Prado in the US since….ever (1990 technically)….yet it’s here now as the LC 250.

The GX 470 and 460 were the Prado...

My argument stands. Toyota doesn't do removable roofs or roof panels on SUVs. They haven't in 35 years. They aren't going to start now. I predicted it months ago and my prediction came true. Or, in other words, I told you so months ago.

 

[TheLCProject]

Toyota's press release for the 4Runner identifies the Wrangler and Bronco as the current competition to the 4Runner.

"Over the years most of the mainstream branded, midsize, off-road oriented two-row SUVs have fallen by the wayside such as the Nissan XTerra and Chevy S-10 Blazer, leaving the Jeep Wrangler and Ford Bronco as the main competition to the 4Runner."

Seeing the tremendous success that Ford and Jeep have had with the removable form-factor might have led some to believe that Toyota would try to actually compete in the segment with this feature.

 

[NearJetties]

The GX 470 and 460 were the Prado...

My argument stands. Toyota doesn't do removable roofs or roof panels on SUVs. They haven't in 35 years. They aren't going to start now. I predicted it months ago and my prediction came true. Or, in other words, I told you so months ago.

Ok, the 460 and 470 and 550 are the Prado. If Toyota never changes their thinking why’d they bring a Toyota badged Prado?

thankfully there are a lot of recent examples where Toyota hasn’t kept their head buried in the sand…unfortunately this wasn’t one of them. A lower spec LC and GR Corolla being the best examples.

You can celebrate whatever you like. An argument can stand and still be a bad one.

 

[jimbo92]

Low take rate in the Tacoma is IMO even more reason to offer manual in the 4Runner. As much parts sharing between the shared platforms certainly allows it, and makes it easier to justify the engineering cost. With the low take rate argument why even offer the manual in the Tacoma? No competitor offers it except the gladiator, and with the constant recalls and stop sales it's BARELY even offered.

 

[M1911]

Ok, the 460 and 470 and 550 are the Prado. If Toyota never changes their thinking why’d they bring a Toyota badged Prado?

thankfully there are a lot of recent examples where Toyota hasn’t kept their head buried in the sand…unfortunately this wasn’t one of them. A lower spec LC and GR Corolla being the best examples.

You can celebrate whatever you like. An argument can stand and still be a bad one.

I told you it wouldn't come with a removable roof and the announcement shows that I was correct.

Argue all you want, but my prediction was correct.

 

[M1911]

Toyota's press release for the 4Runner identifies the Wrangler and Bronco as the current competition to the 4Runner.

"Over the years most of the mainstream branded, midsize, off-road oriented two-row SUVs have fallen by the wayside such as the Nissan XTerra and Chevy S-10 Blazer, leaving the Jeep Wrangler and Ford Bronco as the main competition to the 4Runner."

Seeing the tremendous success that Ford and Jeep have had with the removable form-factor might have led some to believe that Toyota would try to actually compete in the segment with this feature.

The most direct competition that Toyota built for the Wranger and Bronco was the FJ Cruiser. After that experience, Toyota executives said that they would never again sell a short-wheelbase offroader in the US, due to the rollover lawsuits that they had to defend. And the FJ Cruiser didn't have a removable roof or roof panel.

So, in my opinion, the logical expectation was that the 6th gen would have 4-doors and a fixed roof.

 

[GX Kai]

The most direct competition that Toyota built for the Wranger and Bronco was the FJ Cruiser. After that experience, Toyota executives said that they would never again sell a short-wheelbase offroader in the US, due to the rollover lawsuits that they had to defend. And the FJ Cruiser didn't have a removable roof or roof panel.

So, in my opinion, the logical expectation was that the 6th gen would have 4-doors and a fixed roof.

Yeah, I am thinking the reason for no removable roofs is similar to no short wheel base vehicles: safety. I'm not sure what the numbers are for Jeeps and Broncos but it's easy to imagine how more harm can come to someone off-roading in an open-top vehicle than someone in an enclosed vehicle.

 

[M1911]

Low take rate in the Tacoma is IMO even more reason to offer manual in the 4Runner. As much parts sharing between the shared platforms certainly allows it, and makes it easier to justify the engineering cost. With the low take rate argument why even offer the manual in the Tacoma? No competitor offers it except the gladiator, and with the constant recalls and stop sales it's BARELY even offered.

The homologation costs are specific to each vehicle. The fact that the drivetrain has been homologated for the Tacoma doesn't change the fact that homologation costs (e.g., fuel economy, emissions, and possibly crash testing) would need to be done for the 4Runner.

Sales of the Tacoma in the US have typically been roughly twice the sales of the 4Runner. As a result, Toyota is able to amortize the added homologation cost of the manual over twice as many units for the Tacoma. Or, to put it another way, it would cost Toyota roughly twice as much per 4Runner to support the homologation cost of the manual transmission when compared to the Tacoma.

The reality is that Toyota will lose very few 4Runner sales by not equipping it with a manual transmission. They have judged that it simply isn't worth cost to do so.

 

[M1911]

Yeah, I am thinking the reason for no removable roofs is similar to no short wheel base vehicles: safety. I'm not sure what the numbers are for Jeeps and Broncos but it's easy to imagine how more harm can come to someone off-roading in an open-top vehicle than someone in an enclosed vehicle.

I suspect it is more likely to do with reliability and quality. Removable roof panels increase the chance of creaks, rattles, leaks, water intrusion, etc. But that is just a guess on my part, supported by no evidence.

 

[jayp2]

The most direct competition that Toyota built for the Wranger and Bronco was the FJ Cruiser. After that experience, Toyota executives said that they would never again sell a short-wheelbase offroader in the US, due to the rollover lawsuits that they had to defend. And the FJ Cruiser didn't have a removable roof or roof panel.

So, in my opinion, the logical expectation was that the 6th gen would have 4-doors and a fixed roof.

The FJ Cruiser flop in the US was a product of poor design not a lack of customer demand

everyone that drove one scratched their heads over the utter debaucle of lack of visibility and blind spot in right rear.

people didnt buy it because competitors products lacked glaring issues

Jeep sells over 1000 units a month

Ford sells over 1000 units a month

Both include significant numbers of soft/hard removeable tops and MT's

Durable demand is here for the product

The issue is that Mr T chooses not to offer a product that consumers want

 

[Brown98LC]

The 250 is more likely to ever get a swb version vs the 4R which hasn't had one in decades, based on the fact the 150 had a swb version
However if that ever happens, I doubt it'll be offered in North America & most likely will be limited to certain markets, or offered for a limited time.

 

[LCHOU]

Ryan Gregg
@ryanwgregg

2025 Toyota 4Runner TRD Pro in Mudbath (New for 25MY)
Expected to be Hybrid Only (unconfirmed)

i-FORCE MAX with 8-spd Auto
326 HP & 465 lb.-ft. of torque
TRD-tuned Fox 2.5" QS3 Internal Bypass Suspension (unconfirmed)
33" (265/70R18) Toyo Open Country All-Terrain Tires
---------
2025 Toyota 4Runner Trailhunter in Everest (New for 25MY)

Expected to be Hybrid Only (unconfirmed)
i-FORCE MAX with 8-spd Auto
326 HP & 465 lb.-ft. of torque
Old Man EMU 2.5" Shocks w/ Remote Reservoirs
33" (265/70R18) Toyo Open Country All-Terrain Tires
ARB Roof Rack
----------
2025 Toyota 4Runner Limited in Heritage Blue (New for 25MY)
Expected to be Hybrid & Non-Hybrid (unconfirmed)

i-FORCE MAX with 8-spd Auto
326 HP & 465 lb.-ft. of torque

i-FORCE with 8-spd Auto
278 HP & 317 lb.-ft. of torque

 

[NearJetties]

Yeah, I am thinking the reason for no removable roofs is similar to no short wheel base vehicles: safety. I'm not sure what the numbers are for Jeeps and Broncos but it's easy to imagine how more harm can come to someone off-roading in an open-top vehicle than someone in an enclosed vehicle.

I’m taking a panoramic sunroof size panel that could be taken out. It wouldn’t be any less safe than the panoramic sunroof on a TRD Pro Sequoia.

 

[TheLCProject]

I’m taking a panoramic sunroof size panel that could be taken out. It wouldn’t be any less safe than the panoramic sunroof on a TRD Pro Sequoia.

It's about margin per unit..plain and simple.

Why go through the hassle of engineering and manufacturing a rolled-tube structure when you can keep selling nearly as many with the old stamped and glued/welded method?

 

[stridertexas]

What’s going to be the price range from SR5 to Trailhunter…?

I’m guessing $42-67k

 

[cruiseroutfit]

OK, what we know as of today is the TRD Pro and Trailhunter 4Runner have the 9.5” diff, there was also a Limited on display and it was the 8.2”. Now, I must emphasize, this is not a published spec, rather what I saw by laying on the ground. Things can/will change as we saw between the dozens of prototype/pre-production LC250’s that were used for testing/evaluate, training, media projects and later public display and events. I’ll be able to talk much more on that in the future.

As Forbes generously shared this morning , the Japan built 2025 4Runner will have options for both the 4cyl turbo i-FORCE and I-FORCE MAX one motor hybrid like we see in the Tacoma options. They will all feature the 8spd Auto. We will see grades with part-time and full-time 4WD with CDL, nothing too new as far as drive system. Rear locker, front swaybar disconnect, aux switches and of course the longer wheelbase (112.2”) are the basics. It’s no secret (now more than ever) that there is a massive amount of overlap in the 4Runner/LC250/GX550 and to a lesser degree LX600 offerings, it’s now about options within the TNGA-F shared chassis, and less about the full chassis differences we previously had with the 4Runner, GX460 and URJ200 here in the US, as most know the LX600 is on the same architecture but significantly different underpinnings relatively.

I’ve spent a great deal of time in the LX600, GX550, and LC250 (as well as a few miles in the new Tacoma’s, they are different in term is or suspension offerings (6? in the Tacoma), motor/trans/hybrid tuning, etc. I’m very excited to rip around in the new 4Runner too.

 

[Diff Kraken]

 

[TheLCProject]

OK, what we know as of today is the TRD Pro and Trailhunter 4Runner have the 9.5” diff

I thought that was settled that it was the MT that got the 9.5. Just checking back on this...

I would like a photo of the 4Runner trail hunter rear diff, please. Don't let @Knowbuddy measure it.

 

[turbo8]

 

[cruiseroutfit]

I thought that was settled that it was the MT that got the 9.5. Just checking back on this...

4Runner here, stay with me.

I would like a photo of the 4Runner trail hunter rear diff, please. Don't let @Knowbuddy measure it.

Which prototype did he measure?