2024 GX/Prado Release and Discussion (4 Viewers)

[M1911]

The fact that Toyota has released the FJ70 into Japan indicates that they think there is a market for urban/suburban drivers there. Should be interesting to follow the sales results. And sales results for INEOS will also bring clarity as to the actual demand for a FJ70 or FJ70 like vehicle. INEOS has been able to design a 4x4 that meets US standards from the getgo and that is an advantage over Toyota. But if the Grenadier sells and is well received, it would bolster an argument for a US FJ70 (or something very much like it.)

The INEOS was designed in the 2020s to meet current regulations. The 70 Series was designed in the 1970s. Could Toyota redesign the 70 to meet current regulations? Yes, but it would take a complete redesign and Toyota hasn’t done a complete redesign of the 70 since it started building them in the late ‘70s.

We won’t get a 70 Series in the US. Not going to happen.

The INEOS is going to be a niche vehicle. We will see how they do. I suspect that like most new auto manufacturers that they will have a very tough time building reliable vehicles and remaining solvent. It would not surprise me at all if after 5 years the billionaire owner gets tired of it all and they go bust. Time will tell.

 

[Jetboy]

Not sure if I missed it - It's 2 row only for the USA right?

So the 4Runner will presumably need to retain a 3 row option. Doesn't that suggest that the next gen 4Runner will be as big or bigger? Or will Toyota come up with something new that it tries to squeeze between the LC and Sequoia? Also - any specs on cargo volume? Does the 4Runner still have the largest cargo volume and highest payload capacity of all Toyota BOF models in the USA?

 

[Brown98LC]

The fact that Toyota has released the FJ70 into Japan indicates that they think there is a market for urban/suburban drivers there. Should be interesting to follow the sales results. And sales results for INEOS will also bring clarity as to the actual demand for a FJ70 or FJ70 like vehicle. INEOS has been able to design a 4x4 that meets US standards from the getgo and that is an advantage over Toyota. But if the Grenadier sells and is well received, it would bolster an argument for a US FJ70 (or something very much like it.)


While I don’t suppose a FJ70 is best suited to life in Manhattan, though the UES is crawling with Range Rovers, Broncos and Wranglers, it is very well suited for Suburban drivers who want to “go places” on the weekends. That being said, the FJ70 shines brightest in use by large property owners, farmers, fruit growers, people in rural work environments, the environment where the FJ70, Defender and others were designed and built to thrive. I get the feeling you have rural environments like that somewhere tucked away in the USA? A few square miles here or there?

Not a lot of those rural folk spend their days on internet forums, so there is a disproportionate voice on the Net from Urbanites in favor of more tame Suburban vehicles. I think that imbalance is perfectly fine, but do realize that it is a virtual imbalance and does not disprove the existence of other potential realities.

If any one of you love the roar of an air cooled 911, the rush of a BMW flat twin, the growl of any exotic sports car, or the raucous fun of a Harley, trust me, you have nothing to fear from the NVH of an FJ70. It is loud and you will love it. It is a kick in the arse to drive! I am shouting now! But then again I have the advantage of having spent time in the same area code, city, nation, continent and universe as a modern FJ70, have driven one for months and may have to own one soon.

Frank speaking, had the LC250 been the vehicle some of us hoped for, we would not be having this FJ70 conversation at all.

with all due respect to the Grenadier but I don't ever see it competing with the LC70.
the LC70 released in Japan as a hobby vehicle is just a home market gift from Toyota and not even a blip on the radar of total LC70 sales.

I don't see the Grenadier being anything more than a hobby vehicle or at best maybe forced to be part of certain things just to make it look like its doing important things.
The LC70 is a life and death car used in real situations, it is not made only to be a ''hobby'' car. That isn't its purposes, yes you can buy one mod it and have fun but at its core its a vehicle made for no failures or limited failures that can be serviced on the field in tough situations. So many parts for 70s in rural areas, nothing else comes close.

They will only build like 25k Grenadiers a year at full capacity, the LC70 sells easily more than double that if not more per year. No comparison.

The LC70 has owned the market it specializes in for almost 40 years and no one is taking that away from it, not anytime soon anyway.
You are not going to convince the people who use and trust the LC70 to swap it for anything else, very very unlikely. I am not talking only about those who use them for leisure, I am talking about the majority who use them a serious intended purpose.

The LC70 killed the game. Nothing can touch it now. The best anyone else can wish for is being a distant second best.
You can ''win'' over the LC70 on paper from now till 10 years and still won't be able to dethrone it.

Don't get me wrong, I respect Ineos and what they are doing, kudos to them, I mean who am I to judge them I guess but the reality is nothing compares to the LC70 right now when its life and death.

 

[Specialeyes]

So here is my quandary. There will be a 2025 4Runner. Unless it is just completely retargeted for a different market and class, it will bump straight into the LC250. It should have a Trailhunter and TRD-Pro model similarly equipped to the Tacoma (i.e. IForce Max 4cyl, Swaybar disconnect, rear locker, upgraded shocks, etc). The new Tacoma Trailhunter is estimated to be $48,000 and the TRD-Pro $50,000. Currently the 4Runners are about $7k more than a Tacoma. So I estimate the 4Runner Trailhunter will be $55k and the TRD-Pro would be $57k (more likely $60k). The Trailhunter would be the same price as the 1958 and better equipped. The TRD-Pro would probably be priced at or below the Land Cruiser trim and arguably better equipped. This would, obviously, be a problem. The only solution I can see is Toyota having to push down the 4Runner and strip it of features. There is nothing about these new LC250s that would make me buy one over a similarly priced but better equipped 4Runner. Full Time 4WD is not enough.

The 5th gen is on it’s way out and will only
share the sales floor for maybe 3 or 4 months with the all new 250 Series LC. While I understand the concern in current overlap/similarities I think until the 6th gen 4R is revealed these types of comparisons are not valid since we don’t have any idea what the hell is going on with the new 4R. (For better or worse it’s been Toyota’s best kept secret thru all of the new TNGA-F releases)

 

[AndrewTK]

In case anyone missed this part of the forum, here is the link:
70 Series

 

[Specialeyes]

That's fair. For me in the snowy Northeast, I much prefer full-time 4WD, but different folks have different priorities.

It’s nice to have in the rain as well.

 

[Blackwatch1]

It could've been WAY worse. Not a full size, but more narrow for actual trail use. The only thing I don't like about it is the engine and new technology. Made in Japan too. They could've EASILY made this in the USA or Mexico. I love how it's a global vehicle and not just for us. Means it will have to be reliable.

One video is saying in "other markets" it will come with a 3rd row seat. This means those vehicles will not have the hybrid system. Most likely the LC250 will get diesel and non hybrid in other markets. So I am not convinced this LC will still be as reliable as it's name demands around the world. The same is true for the LC300. It also comes with the 4.0 V6 and a diesel option. The 3.44 tt will not be as reliable so Toyota knows they must keep throwing in the old motors so you don't end up stranded and dead in the middle of Africa.

 

[ThRiLlGmYr]

with all due respect to the Grenadier but I don't ever see it competing with the LC70.
the LC70 released in Japan as a hobby vehicle is just a home market gift from Toyota and not even a blip on the radar of total LC70 sales.

I don't see the Grenadier being anything more than a hobby vehicle or at best maybe forced to be part of certain things just to make it look like its doing important things.
The LC70 is a life and death car used in real situations, it is not made only to be a ''hobby'' car. That isn't its purposes, yes you can buy one mod it and have fun but at its core its a vehicle made for no failures or limited failures that can be serviced on the field in tough situations. So many parts for 70s in rural areas, nothing else comes close.

They will only build like 25k Grenadiers a year at full capacity, the LC70 sells easily more than double that if not more per year. No comparison.

The LC70 has owned the market it specializes in for almost 40 years and no one is taking that away from it, not anytime soon anyway.
You are not going to convince the people who use and trust the LC70 to swap it for anything else, very very unlikely. I am not talking only about those who use them for leisure, I am talking about the majority who use them a serious intended purpose.

The LC70 killed the game. Nothing can touch it now. The best anyone else can wish for is being a distant second best.
You can ''win'' over the LC70 on paper from now till 10 years and still won't be able to dethrone it.

Don't get me wrong, I respect Ineos and what they are doing, kudos to them, I mean who am I to judge them I guess but the reality is nothing compares to the LC70 right now when its life and death.

This is a serious question. I honestly don't know the answer. What was the last NON EV auto start up that succeeded?

 

[TheRealDeal124]

One video is saying in "other markets" it will come with a 3rd row seat. This means those vehicles will not have the hybrid system. Most likely the LC250 will get diesel and non hybrid in other markets. So I am not convinced this LC will still be as reliable as it's name demands around the world. The same is true for the LC300. It also comes with the 4.0 V6 and a diesel option. The 3.44 tt will not be as reliable so Toyota knows they must keep throwing in the old motors so you don't end up stranded and dead in the middle of Africa.

I wouldve been happy with the 4.0 V6 naturally aspirated. I don't need to race to every red light to show people I'm powerful. Just cruise and enjoy the sights. As these vehicles were meant.

 

[AndrewTK]

Not sure if I missed it - It's 2 row only for the USA right?

So the 4Runner will presumably need to retain a 3 row option. Doesn't that suggest that the next gen 4Runner will be as big or bigger? Or will Toyota come up with something new that it tries to squeeze between the LC and Sequoia? Also - any specs on cargo volume? Does the 4Runner still have the largest cargo volume and highest payload capacity of all Toyota BOF models in the USA?

It will be interesting for sure, I dont see the 4Runner staying as large as it currently is with the 250 in the mix now. Leaving the Sequoia as the only “rugged” 3 row option would drive customers to seek other options and would be a miss by Toyota. I suppose they could roll the 4Runner out with only a 3 row configuration to differentiate it more from the 250.

 

[ThRiLlGmYr]

The 5th gen is on it’s way out and will only
share the sales floor for maybe 3 or 4 months with the all new 250 Series LC. While I understand the concern in current overlap/similarities I think until the 6th gen 4R is revealed these types of comparisons are not valid since we don’t have any idea what the hell is going on with the new 4R. (For better or worse it’s been Toyota’s best kept secret thru all of the new TNGA-F releases)

I am not talking current overlap, I am talking future. If anything like the Tacoma the next 4Runner will be all over the LC250 in price and features with its Trailhunter and TRD-Pro models. Is Toyota going to have to kill those trims in the 4Runner?

 

[AndrewTK]

with all due respect to the Grenadier but I don't ever see it competing with the LC70.
the LC70 released in Japan as a hobby vehicle is just a home market gift from Toyota and not even a blip on the radar of total LC70 sales.

I don't see the Grenadier being anything more than a hobby vehicle or at best maybe forced to be part of certain things just to make it look like its doing important things.
The LC70 is a life and death car used in real situations, it is not made only to be a ''hobby'' car. That isn't its purposes, yes you can buy one mod it and have fun but at its core its a vehicle made for no failures or limited failures that can be serviced on the field in tough situations. So many parts for 70s in rural areas, nothing else comes close.

They will only build like 25k Grenadiers a year at full capacity, the LC70 sells easily more than double that if not more per year. No comparison.

The LC70 has owned the market it specializes in for almost 40 years and no one is taking that away from it, not anytime soon anyway.
You are not going to convince the people who use and trust the LC70 to swap it for anything else, very very unlikely. I am not talking only about those who use them for leisure, I am talking about the majority who use them a serious intended purpose.

The LC70 killed the game. Nothing can touch it now. The best anyone else can wish for is being a distant second best.
You can ''win'' over the LC70 on paper from now till 10 years and still won't be able to dethrone it.

Don't get me wrong, I respect Ineos and what they are doing, kudos to them, I mean who am I to judge them I guess but the reality is nothing compares to the LC70 right now when its life and death.

To be fair I think the Grenadier is really designed to be a modern Defender 110 so the bar for reliability is significantly lower.

 

[SpillmanCruiser]

I wouldve been happy with the 4.0 V6 naturally aspirated. I don't need to race to every red light to show people I'm powerful. Just cruise and enjoy the sights. As these vehicles were meant.

Not me. I really, really like the power in my 200's V8

 

[flx]

One video is saying in "other markets" it will come with a 3rd row seat. This means those vehicles will not have the hybrid system. Most likely the LC250 will get diesel and non hybrid in other markets. So I am not convinced this LC will still be as reliable as it's name demands around the world. The same is true for the LC300. It also comes with the 4.0 V6 and a diesel option. The 3.44 tt will not be as reliable so Toyota knows they must keep throwing in the old motors so you don't end up stranded and dead in the middle of Africa.

I wouldve been happy with the 4.0 V6 naturally aspirated. I don't need to race to every red light to show people I'm powerful. Just cruise and enjoy the sights. As these vehicles were meant.

The rugged NA petrol option for the Prado is a 2.7L outputting something like 120HP. The true successor to the R and RZ engines you used ot have in 4R and Tacoma in the US.
Do you really want that? I think everyone would be complaining if Toyota was proposing that in the US.

People even complain that there is too much plastic in the interior...

 

[rex in bama]

Feels just like an 80 Series to me

Feels just like an 80 Series to me

Yeah, was getting that vibe watching TFL’s review of the 1958. Kind of like a modern day equivalent to an early 80 - cloth seats, slick top, limited frills, clean styling. Have owned two and always regret when I sell. And this 4 banger looks to be a bit of a performance upgrade compared to the ole 3fe!

 

[McDuff123]

I used to be a fan of this guy but I find him contradictory/inconsistent if you listen to enough of his rants and he nitpicks the strangest things to write something off. I guess if you're in the business of content, you have to always find something to say otherwise there's no new content.

Ironically, your synopsis perfectly describes this thread and most of the commentators on it.

 

[Brown98LC]

it is more modern day Prado 90 than 80 series

a modern day 80 series is a triple locked base cloth LC300. Sorry not sorry. ( Now before anyone jumps on my throat, I'm joking, they are all unique excellent cruisers. and from a US/Canada market perspective I can see how you can view it as a modern day 80 )

 

[TheRealDeal124]

The rugged NA petrol option for the Prado is a 2.7L outputting something like 120HP. The true successor to the R and RZ engines you used ot have in 4R and Tacoma in the US.
Do you really want that? I think everyone would be complaining if Toyota was proposing that in the US.

People even complain that there is too much plastic in the interior...

I'll take reliability over power any day. Now if this engine is reliable or at least serviceable for 25 years I'll be happy with that. I love the fact that there's a no frills choice for the diehards. The 1958 at 55k is a price I'm willing to pay. Nearly the same price of a bare bones 80.

 

[M1911]

I wouldve been happy with the 4.0 V6 naturally aspirated. I don't need to race to every red light to show people I'm powerful. Just cruise and enjoy the sights. As these vehicles were meant.

I test drove the 5th gen three times. I hated that drivetrain. The 4.0 lacks low end torque and has bad NVH at higher revs. Yes, performance is decent enough but you have to use high revs to get decent acceleration and it sounds like a bucket full of rocks. Also, fuel exit of the 5th gen isn’t great.

 

[Brown98LC]

I'll take reliability over power any day. Now if this engine is reliable or at least serviceable for 25 years I'll be happy with that. I love the fact that there's a no frills choice for the diehards. The 1958 at 55k is a price I'm willing to pay. Nearly the same price of a bare bones 80.

this is why they kept the 1GR 4.0 as the base engine in the 300.