is it in yet???
Delancy's NEW 76 PIGGY ??? (1 Viewer)
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what vintage 3FE mount...I have an 88 fj 62 mount, and just got home a 91 fj80 3FE with its comp and mount as well... gotta swap it into the bosses truck like realtime...dang it, I got a lot of catch up readin to do. like why aren't you just modifying the fram stub so the motor points the output at the diff flange?
cud I has a clifnotes V?
62 motor mount...passenger side that attaches to the block, which has the 3FE compressor and alternator mount integrated to.
According to Tucker and a few others, the PS 3FE motor mount wouldn't work with the 2F welded frame bracket.
Have to have the PS 3FE motor mount to run the 3FE AC & alternator, because it all hinges (for lack of better) off the motor mount.
Intended to get to this point, stab the drive train in between the rails, locate the engine, with clutch fan behind the radiator, hoping the DS 2F mounting location with allow sufficient space between radiator and fan. Then moving the drivetrain to more align to rear end, modify a 60 series crossmember based on final orientation.
If neither frame stubs allow sufficient room for clutched fan, then they'd both be relocated to accommodate the necessary space there, and moving the TC output around for an in line orientation.
Based on the 3F'd Pig ACC Pig, it was highly likely that both motor mounts would have to move.
Based on Ron and Tuckers H55s, it seemed highly likely that the shifter is gonna have to be modified, anyway, so the H55 placement really isn't a concern.
Based on experience with the 80 front, if everything BUT the rear drive shaft angles were to work without moving frame stubs (highly unlikely, but I did think of) then a double cardan or double, double cardan shaft could be used.
Not sure if that helps you, or not.
I checked and 3FE mounts change part numbers from 62 to 80, but that doesn't mean anything is different.
You should know better than to ask me for Cliffs..... Bahahaha.
According to Tucker and a few others, the PS 3FE motor mount wouldn't work with the 2F welded frame bracket.
Have to have the PS 3FE motor mount to run the 3FE AC & alternator, because it all hinges (for lack of better) off the motor mount.
Intended to get to this point, stab the drive train in between the rails, locate the engine, with clutch fan behind the radiator, hoping the DS 2F mounting location with allow sufficient space between radiator and fan. Then moving the drivetrain to more align to rear end, modify a 60 series crossmember based on final orientation.
If neither frame stubs allow sufficient room for clutched fan, then they'd both be relocated to accommodate the necessary space there, and moving the TC output around for an in line orientation.
Based on the 3F'd Pig ACC Pig, it was highly likely that both motor mounts would have to move.
Based on Ron and Tuckers H55s, it seemed highly likely that the shifter is gonna have to be modified, anyway, so the H55 placement really isn't a concern.
Based on experience with the 80 front, if everything BUT the rear drive shaft angles were to work without moving frame stubs (highly unlikely, but I did think of) then a double cardan or double, double cardan shaft could be used.
Not sure if that helps you, or not.
I checked and 3FE mounts change part numbers from 62 to 80, but that doesn't mean anything is different.
You should know better than to ask me for Cliffs..... Bahahaha.
riiight,,, the fan clutch is going to have you moving the motor mounts on both sides- no way it'll fit behind a stock location radiator with the mounting horns in their factory spot. Haven't measured them yet, but I am under the impression that there is a difference betwixt the 62 and 80 PS mount bracket...try to highlight those later...
,,, the fan clutch is going to have you moving the motor mounts on both sides- no way it'll fit behind a stock location radiator with the mounting horns in their factory spot. Haven't measured them yet, but I am under the impression that there is a difference betwixt the 62 and 80 PS mount bracket...try to highlight those later...I would think there'd be a difference, based on frame variances, alone.
IF, the motor mounts in mine, aligned and put the drivetrain in line, the early consideration was a custom radiator to allow room for the clutched fan.
All kinda of complex algorithmic-ish equations come into play when bastardizing a build in only a way that Delancy can.....
IF, the motor mounts in mine, aligned and put the drivetrain in line, the early consideration was a custom radiator to allow room for the clutched fan.
All kinda of complex algorithmic-ish equations come into play when bastardizing a build in only a way that Delancy can.....
tucker74
Moderator
Pinion angle won't be an issue, run the same setup in mine w/o any vibration
Tucker
Tucker
When centering my engine and transfer case I ended up with 1.5” more horizontal offset using the split case when aligned like drawing “B”. Are you talking about aligning yours like drawing “A” to lineup the rear end or move the engine off center?
might be a better idea cause I forgot how close the back side of the engine is to the firewall as it sits in its stock location. won't give you enough room in front of the fan...
That's what's been suspected on radiator/fan clearance....
@J Mack,
Pretty sure A is a closer representation to OE, since they're cockeyed to begin with, regardless the diff offset at axle.
I don't know the correct terminology, but the horizontal variance is supposed to maintain a 2 degrees.
The vertical should be parallel, only for a standard jointed shaft, and even a cardan shaft at diff should have a 2 degree variation from the driveline angle.
Will say this, having battled the 80 front, set it up however you have to, measure you're distances and angles, and call Jesse at High Angle. He's the only I spoke to that spent the time with me, then guaranteed the driveshaft wouldn't vibrate with a buy back guarantee.
@J Mack,
Pretty sure A is a closer representation to OE, since they're cockeyed to begin with, regardless the diff offset at axle.
I don't know the correct terminology, but the horizontal variance is supposed to maintain a 2 degrees.
The vertical should be parallel, only for a standard jointed shaft, and even a cardan shaft at diff should have a 2 degree variation from the driveline angle.
Will say this, having battled the 80 front, set it up however you have to, measure you're distances and angles, and call Jesse at High Angle. He's the only I spoke to that spent the time with me, then guaranteed the driveshaft wouldn't vibrate with a buy back guarantee.
Sorry for the hijack but I’m just trying to confirm what I think I know and I’m at about the same point in my engine swap as you, we can take it to PM if you prefer. I'm just hoping someone with more knowledge will read and correct if I'm wrong.
When setting up a drive shaft with a compound angle always keep the centerlines of the transmission and axle parallel in both views so “B” would be correct and “A” would net drive shaft vibration that a cardan joint wouldn’t fix.
Better explanation of compound universal joint operation here with pictures, starting at page 8: http://www2.dana.com/pdf/J3311-1-DSSP.pdf
tucker74
Moderator
Couple of comments from the peanut gallery:
Tucker
- In a 40 you can run a 3FE with fan clutch on the stock mounts with plenty of room.
- You will have to relocate the compressor if you want to run AC, no way that mount will work
- The 62 and 80 mounts are different, the latter will require reconfiguring the frame side.
- Toyota rotates their engine on the vertical, they do not angle it on the horizontal.
- I have no vibration issues with a H55 & split case starting at the stock bellhousing location, no DC and pinion not rotated (4" lift springs)
Tucker
PabloCruise
SILVER Star
I've already said I fit my 3FE w/ clutch fan in w/ factory radiator.
in the 40 no? or am I bein dumb and you got one in a pig?
just got the fj62 power plant out, can measure motor mount differences later between the 62 and 80 3FE...I want to keep the updated compressor and steering pump- the old pump leaked anyway...this will also allow a bit more room in the cramped corner of the bay; I am going to add material to the frame to bridge the gap- I'd do the same to the pig when time comes...
@tucker74
Based on your previous input when planning, I knew the PS 3FE motor mount would not work with the welded frame mount.
Had always planned to cut the Pig's mounts off and replace with a 62 or fabbed along the lines of, so that I can utilize the 3FE motor mount and associated auxiliary brackets.
Like the 60 cross, Robbie wanted to stab it in there, to visualize what I've regurgitated from reading, before hacking away at the frame or ordering/sourcing a cross member, since welding and fab will outsource.
We were never certain that the 2F with the 3FE clutch and clutch fan would fit behind the radiator, but the lesser or concerns, all things considered. A 3F in a Pig with H55 and split case did not fit, and the closest that I've found similar.
@J Mack
Rest assured that no matter how yours orients, there are driveshaft solutions, in the event no other can be found.
If the output flanges are parallel in a vertical plane, yet offset or not inline, it's the same principle for a double cardan joint.
If all else fails, double, double cardans will work, albeit $$$$, for situations where the flanges are both off more than 2 degrees.
My unsolicited and uneducated advice is, try a standard drive shaft, adjusted for length if need be, on the cheap. Local shop charged $50 to shorten and balance a used one I had, for a trial run.
If that fail, my recommendation would be to call Jesse at High Angle, and get his take on it. He's hard to get a hold of, but was well worth the time and money, in my experience, considering there's no bastardized driveline angles like the front of a lifted, full time 80 Series, and no one else in the industry could offer any insight, besides reworking the front axle.
Ben at Slee and Jesse were both very knowledgeable, both explained what would work, but Jesse was the only to offer a buy back and, at the expense of rebuilt with (assumed) OE double cardan joints and slip joint, it was an insurance policy I couldn't refuse.
Based on your previous input when planning, I knew the PS 3FE motor mount would not work with the welded frame mount.
Had always planned to cut the Pig's mounts off and replace with a 62 or fabbed along the lines of, so that I can utilize the 3FE motor mount and associated auxiliary brackets.
Like the 60 cross, Robbie wanted to stab it in there, to visualize what I've regurgitated from reading, before hacking away at the frame or ordering/sourcing a cross member, since welding and fab will outsource.
We were never certain that the 2F with the 3FE clutch and clutch fan would fit behind the radiator, but the lesser or concerns, all things considered. A 3F in a Pig with H55 and split case did not fit, and the closest that I've found similar.
@J Mack
Rest assured that no matter how yours orients, there are driveshaft solutions, in the event no other can be found.
If the output flanges are parallel in a vertical plane, yet offset or not inline, it's the same principle for a double cardan joint.
If all else fails, double, double cardans will work, albeit $$$$, for situations where the flanges are both off more than 2 degrees.
My unsolicited and uneducated advice is, try a standard drive shaft, adjusted for length if need be, on the cheap. Local shop charged $50 to shorten and balance a used one I had, for a trial run.
If that fail, my recommendation would be to call Jesse at High Angle, and get his take on it. He's hard to get a hold of, but was well worth the time and money, in my experience, considering there's no bastardized driveline angles like the front of a lifted, full time 80 Series, and no one else in the industry could offer any insight, besides reworking the front axle.
Ben at Slee and Jesse were both very knowledgeable, both explained what would work, but Jesse was the only to offer a buy back and, at the expense of rebuilt with (assumed) OE double cardan joints and slip joint, it was an insurance policy I couldn't refuse.
@tucker74
Based on your previous input when planning, I knew the PS 3FE motor mount would not work with the welded frame mount.
Had always planned to cut the Pig's mounts off and replace with a 62 or fabbed along the lines of, so that I can utilize the 3FE motor mount and associated auxiliary brackets.
Like the 60 cross, Robbie wanted to stab it in there, to visualize what I've regurgitated from reading, before hacking away at the frame or ordering/sourcing a cross member, since welding and fab will outsource.
We were never certain that the 2F with the 3FE clutch and clutch fan would fit behind the radiator, but the lesser or concerns, all things considered. A 3F in a Pig with H55 and split case did not fit, and the closest that I've found similar.
@J Mack
Rest assured that no matter how yours orients, there are driveshaft solutions, in the event no other can be found.
If the output flanges are parallel in a vertical plane, yet offset or not inline, it's the same principle for a double cardan joint.
If all else fails, double, double cardans will work, albeit $$$$, for situations where the flanges are both off more than 2 degrees.
My unsolicited and uneducated advice is, try a standard drive shaft, adjusted for length if need be, on the cheap. Local shop charged $50 to shorten and balance a used one I had, for a trial run.
If that fail, my recommendation would be to call Jesse at High Angle, and get his take on it. He's hard to get a hold of, but was well worth the time and money, in my experience, considering there's no bastardized driveline angles like the front of a lifted, full time 80 Series, and no one else in the industry could offer any insight, besides reworking the front axle.
Ben at Slee and Jesse were both very knowledgeable, both explained what would work, but Jesse was the only to offer a buy back and, at the expense of rebuilt with (assumed) OE double cardan joints and slip joint, it was an insurance policy I couldn't refuse.
Based on your previous input when planning, I knew the PS 3FE motor mount would not work with the welded frame mount.
Had always planned to cut the Pig's mounts off and replace with a 62 or fabbed along the lines of, so that I can utilize the 3FE motor mount and associated auxiliary brackets.
Like the 60 cross, Robbie wanted to stab it in there, to visualize what I've regurgitated from reading, before hacking away at the frame or ordering/sourcing a cross member, since welding and fab will outsource.
We were never certain that the 2F with the 3FE clutch and clutch fan would fit behind the radiator, but the lesser or concerns, all things considered. A 3F in a Pig with H55 and split case did not fit, and the closest that I've found similar.
@J Mack
Rest assured that no matter how yours orients, there are driveshaft solutions, in the event no other can be found.
If the output flanges are parallel in a vertical plane, yet offset or not inline, it's the same principle for a double cardan joint.
If all else fails, double, double cardans will work, albeit $$$$, for situations where the flanges are both off more than 2 degrees.
My unsolicited and uneducated advice is, try a standard drive shaft, adjusted for length if need be, on the cheap. Local shop charged $50 to shorten and balance a used one I had, for a trial run.
If that fail, my recommendation would be to call Jesse at High Angle, and get his take on it. He's hard to get a hold of, but was well worth the time and money, in my experience, considering there's no bastardized driveline angles like the front of a lifted, full time 80 Series, and no one else in the industry could offer any insight, besides reworking the front axle.
Ben at Slee and Jesse were both very knowledgeable, both explained what would work, but Jesse was the only to offer a buy back and, at the expense of rebuilt with (assumed) OE double cardan joints and slip joint, it was an insurance policy I couldn't refuse.
tucker74
Moderator
I hear you, couple of issues I ran into swapping in the H55 ...
- You need the early (3-piece) 60 cross member if you are using the stock bellhousing. The later one piece accounts for the "3F" bellhousing rotation and wont work (I found this out the hard way, since the tranny mount is also cross-member specific).
- If you use the stock bellhousing, you have to grind the dog ear off the PS original mount to bolt up the clutch slave. You also need to remove at least the PS side transmission frame mount, I removed both for exhaust considerations.
- You need the later (H42 w/ spacer) x-fer case shifter linkage.
PabloCruise
SILVER Star
I did put a 3FE in my Pig (thus my signature). I must not have used big enough font earlier...
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PabloCruise
SILVER Star
Chris, I am pretty sure we used 3FE motor mounts when dropping the 3FE in my Piggy, and mated to the factory frame mounts.
Granted this was back in 2008, so I maybe older and stupider by now...
I remember reading a bunch of threads about engine mounts and the differences between them all. I guess it is possible we used 2F mounts and they were the in-between for a 1F frame mount and a 3FE engine.
But it sounds like Tucker is saying even w/ the 3FE engine mount on the passenger side, we cannot fit an AC compressor in our Piggies. :-( I wonder if this is just inner fender clearance (which could be easily fixed)?
We certainly were not cutting mounts off the frame to get the 3FE in. And just for the purposes of avoidance of doubt, I am running a 3FE in my Pig with the 3FE clutch fan and 1974 FJ-55 radiator. We moved the mounts on the radiator to give a little more room.
HTH
Granted this was back in 2008, so I maybe older and stupider by now...
I remember reading a bunch of threads about engine mounts and the differences between them all. I guess it is possible we used 2F mounts and they were the in-between for a 1F frame mount and a 3FE engine.
But it sounds like Tucker is saying even w/ the 3FE engine mount on the passenger side, we cannot fit an AC compressor in our Piggies. :-( I wonder if this is just inner fender clearance (which could be easily fixed)?
We certainly were not cutting mounts off the frame to get the 3FE in. And just for the purposes of avoidance of doubt, I am running a 3FE in my Pig with the 3FE clutch fan and 1974 FJ-55 radiator. We moved the mounts on the radiator to give a little more room.
HTH
Chris had a little "issue" in the 80.
Glad you're ok, man.
Glad you're ok, man.
