Isuzu 4HE1 Swap

Cruzerman · 05-28-07, 11:34 AM

Really want to do a diesel swap into my FJ60 and so I'm doing my research. I stopped by the local wrecking yard and they had an Isuzu 4HE1 available. This an automatic version (I undersand there is a difference between the auto and manual version of the engine).

I know very little about this engine other than the specs sound great to me. Additionally, this particular engine only has less than 40K miles on it. So I have lots of questions. I saw some mention in the 1BD1T swap thread, but didn't want to sidetrack that thread.

Anyhow, here are some questions. Feel free to add info that I didn't even think of.

Here are some of the questions. First of all, is this a good motor and will it fit? Any problem with exhaust (I heard it's on the opposite side of 2F). What are my transmission choices? Can this be mated to a 700R4 tranny? Also, how much electronics are on this motor?

I'm sure there are lots of things I haven't thought of that hopefully others will chime in with.

Thanks everyone,

astr · 05-29-07, 02:37 PM

After looking at the 4BD1/2's, I'm also considering a 4HE1 swap. I am interested in using an automatic transmission and, as Sherpa on the 4BD1 thread suggested, the AW450 automatic that comes standard behind the 4HE1, appears to be related to the A440F Toyota automatic.

To pursue this direction further, I picked up a used AW450 and it looks to have the same bolt pattern between the bell housing and the main case and between the main case and the tail housing as the A440F in my FJ62.

I'm hoping that by bolting the bell housing and torque converter from an AW450 to the main body of the A440F, you can easily mate the 4HE1 to the LC drive train. The other alternative would be to keep the AW450 with the 4HE1 and bolt the LC T-case to the tail end of the AW450. This second approach may be possible as the T-case adapter on the A440F appears to have the same bolt pattern as the tail housing on the AW450. There may be other problems with this second approach such as having to also swap the output shafts.

Since I don't want to pull a perfectly good tranny out of my FJ62 to really find out, I decided to wait and find another A440F that I can tear down. Just this past weekend I picked up a junker FJ62 with all the parts and pieces that I need to try assembling a hybrid A440F/AW450 tranny. I'll post to this thread what I find out as I get further.

theSherpa · 05-29-07, 03:22 PM

this weekend, with the help of ASTR's gaskets, tracings, and measurements of his A450, I verified that A440 bellhousing should bolt up to A450 (and vice versa), and A440 4WD adapter housing should bolt up to backside of the A450 tranny. Input and output shafts of his A450 are different from A440...if A440 output shaft can be swapped into A450, that would be ideal as the A450 will have proper shift points and will take the 4HE1's power/torque. I'm skeptical of the A440 living behind the 4HE1 without a complete rebuild + the upgraded valve body from Australia, and that still leaves a question mark on the A440's clutches and other internals...and starter/torque converter issues. ASTR's going to get us a LOT closer to swapping a 4HE1 ahead of an automatic in a cruiser, but there are some crucial details to be worked out to do it without a bunch of fabrication...and a tranny rebuild for a shaft swap on the front or back of the auto seems inevitable to me. Could be worse!

Steve

astr · 05-29-07, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cruzerman

...Here are some of the questions. First of all, is this a good motor and will it fit? Any problem with exhaust (I heard it's on the opposite side of 2F). What are my transmission choices? Can this be mated to a 700R4 tranny? Also, how much electronics are on this motor?

I'm sure there are lots of things I haven't thought of that hopefully others will chime in with.

Thanks everyone,

I'm not aware of anyone who has swapped a 4HE1 into a Landcruiser so all this is all only speculation.

The 4HE1 is a turbocharged, intercooled 4-cylinder engine of 4.75 liter displacement. The engine that is mated to the automatic is rated at 175 hp @ 2700 rpm and 347 ft-lb at 2000 rpm. For some unknown reason, the engine mated to the manual transmission is only rated at 142 hp @ 2800 rpm and 275 ft-lb @1300 rpm. To get a clear picture, one really needs to see the actual torque/hp curves.

As you pointed out, the exhaust is on the passenger (right) side of the engine which could conflict with the Landcruiser's T-case/front drive shaft. The starter is on the driver's side and mounts from the rear so it sits alongside the transmission. It could interfere with the firewall/floor boards. The US engines are all 12 volt so no conflict there.

The 4HE1 is an interesting motor. It is a 2-valve per cylinder, direct injected diesel. It uses a gear-driven (as opposed to belt-driven) overhead cam. Like the 4BD1/2 motors, it also has a gear-driven power steering pump. What I found strange about this engine is that the whole gear train that drives the cam/power steering pump/injector pump is located at the rear of the engine, not a the front as is usual. I don't know why the Isuzu engineers choose this arrangement.

The bottom end of this engine is very rugged. Rather than use indiuvidual bearing caps for the main crankshaft journals, the whole bottom end is one big casting, sort of like a ladder, which would make for a much stronger and stiffer bottom end.

The fuel injection is provided by an in-line bosch-type pump. It is primarily a mechanical system but there are some electronics that appear to serve to modify the injection but not totally control it. From what I can tell from reading the manual, the primary function of the electonics is to provide diagnostic codes, turn on the "check engine" light, control the glow plugs and the exhaust brake. The only effect that the electronics appears to have on the fuel injection is to limit the amount of fuel injected as the coolant temp increase to keep the engine from overheating and to advance the injection timing under certain circumstances. I'm not positive about these but I have the feeling that the engine would run fine without the electonics.

I'm personally very interested in the swap. As I said in my other post, I am trying to resolve the transmission/drivetrain problem first. If that works out, I'll see if I can get my hands on an 4HE1. They are considerably more expensive hat the 4BD1/2's and are harder to find. Also, overhaul costs are more than the 4BD1/2's.

RHINO · 05-29-07, 04:12 PM

sounds like an interesting engine, is the interest mostly in the power though? the way the bottom end is made reminds me of those 1 milion cubic inch engines they make for the tanker ships. you know, the ones that put out 5 million ftlbs of torqe at 100 rpm

astr · 05-29-07, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RHINO

sounds like an interesting engine, is the interest mostly in the power though? the way the bottom end is made reminds me of those 1 milion cubic inch engines they make for the tanker ships. you know, the ones that put out 5 million ftlbs of torqe at 100 rpm

The 4HE1 replaced the 4BD2 which replaced the 4BD1 in the Isuzu line of NPR trucks. The 4HE1 itself has also been superceeded in 2006 by the 190 hp 5.2 liter 4-valve per cylinder, fuel rail injected 4HK1. I think each engine represents an improvement in power, fuel efficiency, driveability and reduction in emissions. I personally am intererested in the 4HE1 because of the possibility that mating to the Landcruiser drivetrain may turn out to be very simple (at least for the automatic tranny). And I certainly don't mind more power.

Another consideration in pursuing this approach is that, if the AW450 automatic transmission can be easily adapted to the LC drivetrain, it opens up a whole bunch of possibilities for diesel swaps as variants of the AW450 transmission were used in Nissan and Mitsubishi trucks (similar to the Isuzu NPR) which could make these engines candidates for swaps into Landcruisers.

Cruzerman · 05-30-07, 10:00 PM

Awesome information! I would be more inclined to use the A450 too for the reasons that Steve mentioned. Additionally, I don't have an A440 in my rig (FJ60). Sounds like the electronics are minimal. The engine I would be getting would come with all the wiring and computers.

I don't believe that any 4WD versions were brought into the states, so adapting some trasfer case to this tranny would be necessary. Would the split case be strong enough? What other cases are a possibility? And last of all, what are the gear ratios in a A450?

bram · 06-02-07, 09:17 AM

I have been doing some work on this. Please check out the last few posts here:

http://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tech-24-volts-systems/128585-isuzu-4bd1t-swap-4.html

and let me know what you think. It would be great if we could merge these threads into a single 4BD1,4BD2,4HEI thread, or maybe a seperate thread for each one. I am serious about making these swaps possible (and easy!) and I appreciate any help I can get.

astr · 06-04-07, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bram

I have been doing some work on this. Please check out the last few posts here:

http://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=128585&page=4

and let me know what you think. It would be great if we could merge these threads into a single 4BD1,4BD2,4HEI thread, or maybe a seperate thread for each one. I am serious about making these swaps possible (and easy!) and I appreciate any help I can get.

From what I have been able to find out, the 4HE1 is a completely different beast from the 4BD1 and 4BD2 as far as swapping into a Landcruiser. I suspect, but haven't been able to confirm, the 4HE1 is closer to the 4HK1 (current npr motor). I would suggest keeping the two threads separate as there are totally different set of issues that need to be addressed for both series of engines.

ThePookieBear · 12-28-07, 10:38 PM

Hello there astr and others. I have been watching the 4BD2 thread and wondering how progress is coming on this one. Any more info on the AW450? Does anyone make an adapter from the 4BD2-AW450?

Dougal · 12-29-07, 01:21 AM

There's a guy on 4btswaps.com with the handle "Diesel Durango".
He has swapped an Isuzu 4H series engine into his Dodge, but I don't know exactly which model.

ThePookieBear · 01-27-08, 10:26 PM

Has anyone found out for sure if you can run these engines without the electronics in place, or if they do need it, how hard would it be to make it a standalone system type deal?

Dougal · 01-27-08, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePookieBear

Has anyone found out for sure if you can run these engines without the electronics in place, or if they do need it, how hard would it be to make it a standalone system type deal?

Found it.
Dodge Dakota Diesel Conversion

tntoyota · 01-29-08, 01:57 PM

I to will be watching, thanks for this.

I'm not a # hungry looking for power guy, I can deal with lower power. I am looking for economy and I think this is a little better with better results on difficulty of swap.

Is the block a lower profile, ie no lift required?

Is this a more common engine, ie cheaper and easier to find?

keep it up I'll be watching.

ThePookieBear · 01-29-08, 04:41 PM

The engine is newer but also more expensive. I'm not the guru so I'm not sure on dimensions and all that. My main concern is a) Can the engine be run either without the electronics, or are the electronics easy to manage and b) Will it work with either a built A440 or the A450. As far as I can tell, b is a yes, but A is still up in the air.

Dougal- That thread was pretty sweet. However, the engine used is the 4HF1, not the 4HE1 so I don't know about electronics. It is a similar engine as far as I can tell, but is 4.3 litres instead of 4.7. Does anyone know of a good place to find info on these engines? I want to find someone who knows them well and ask about the electronics for sure on the 4HE1's.

Dougal · 01-30-08, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePookieBear

Dougal- That thread was pretty sweet. However, the engine used is the 4HF1, not the 4HE1 so I don't know about electronics. It is a similar engine as far as I can tell, but is 4.3 litres instead of 4.7. Does anyone know of a good place to find info on these engines? I want to find someone who knows them well and ask about the electronics for sure on the 4HE1's.

4H is the series/family, the model (F or E) is primarily displacement only. I'd expect those engines to share most components.

Historically with Isuzu's a slightly higher letter means higher displacement. Also 1 normally means direct injection, 2 meaning indirect injection. This convention was broken with the 4BC2 engine being direct injection but that was over 20 years ago.

ThePookieBear · 01-31-08, 09:53 PM

For those that have compared the a440 and the aw450, how do they compare in size and length? Would the aw450 require modifying the tranny tunnel housing area? And would the a440 transmission mounts be usable?

seray76 · 02-03-08, 12:10 PM

I just found a complete truck with 4HE1 and the 450 tranny in it. The motor has been rebuilt and runs really strong. It's in a NQR though (bigger truck than NPR)...does that matter? I'm planning on putting it all in my 80.

seray76 · 02-03-08, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePookieBear

For those that have compared the a440 and the aw450, how do they compare in size and length? Would the aw450 require modifying the tranny tunnel housing area? And would the a440 transmission mounts be usable?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure the 440,442,450 all use the same casing. I found a website that showed part numbers for all three trannys and many times the gaskets were the exact same part number...and the illustration showed all three to have the same casing. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'll let you know as soon as I pull it out of the truck I'm buying.

ThePookieBear · 02-03-08, 03:59 PM

Thats what I thought. I think that you could use the 450 tranny, which would be ideal since it is designed for that type of engine and has lockup 2nd through 4th, but you would have to swap out the input shaft to make it work with the landcruiser tcase I think. Does anyone know how involved that would be?

Seray76- I hope that works out for you. If you do it, make sure to take lots of pics and all. :-). And if you don't mind my asking, what kind of price are you finding on that motor/tranny and do you know if it has the electronics intact and is running and all. Also, I think that the NQR is what the NPR turned into. Not sure though. I hope we don't have to lift the truck since it is a slightly bigger engine than the 4bd1t. Anyway, keep us posted for sure.

jb BJ73 · 02-03-08, 09:37 PM

pretty sure the only difference between the NPR & NQR is bigger axles and poss bigger brakes. i think they may have tuned the two motors differently but externally and internally they would be the same(that is if they are both 4HE1s-may be tubo on the NQR AND non turbo on the NPR). all the 4H motors are pretty much identical apart from different capacities, apart from the 4HK1 which has common rail and 4valves a cylinder. been wondering wether the head from a 4HK1 would fit on the older models, would have to find some injectors that would fit

ozwallaby · 02-04-08, 04:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jb BJ73

pretty sure the only difference between the NPR & NQR is bigger axles and poss bigger brakes. i think they may have tuned the two motors differently but externally and internally they would be the same(that is if they are both 4HE1s-may be tubo on the NQR AND non turbo on the NPR). all the 4H motors are pretty much identical apart from different capacities, apart from the 4HK1 which has common rail and 4valves a cylinder. been wondering wether the head from a 4HK1 would fit on the older models, would have to find some injectors that would fit

Even if the head fits, opening the 4valves mite make you think hard if the operating system is different.... good luk.. I do like the look of the 4HE1s myself.... I'll be watchin..

astr · 02-04-08, 07:52 AM

For all those of you interested in the newer Isuszu engines (4HE1-TC and 6HK1-TC series), Matt has posted factory manuals for these on his site: Master Portal - forums.bauchan.org/Isuzu Manuals Thanks Matt

seray76 · 02-04-08, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePookieBear

Thats what I thought. I think that you could use the 450 tranny, which would be ideal since it is designed for that type of engine and has lockup 2nd through 4th, but you would have to swap out the input shaft to make it work with the landcruiser tcase I think. Does anyone know how involved that would be?

Seray76- I hope that works out for you. If you do it, make sure to take lots of pics and all. :-). And if you don't mind my asking, what kind of price are you finding on that motor/tranny and do you know if it has the electronics intact and is running and all. Also, I think that the NQR is what the NPR turned into. Not sure though. I hope we don't have to lift the truck since it is a slightly bigger engine than the 4bd1t. Anyway, keep us posted for sure.

To answer your questions:
1)you would have to disassemble both trannys to swap output shafts. I have never rebuilt an auto tranny, only manual ones, but from what others have told me, it's fairly involved.

2)I found a truck that is running and has all of the electronics intact...I will be driving it home. The engine was just rebuilt by an isuzu diesel mechanic. He wants 6K for it but I think I can get it for a little less. I think it's a decent deal because I am getting the tranny, motor, and all of the electronics. Plus, I will be able to get some money back for the rest of the truck, and I don't have to worry about the motor since its been rebuilt. It ran super strong. All of the wrecked ones I have been finding are every bit that expensive and you never know whether the motor is worth a crap or not. Often times you end up rebuilding them anyway.

3) I won't be able to tell you for sure whether or not it would fit in an unlifted truck. Mine is already lifted. I will give you my best guess once I get it mounted though.

ThePookieBear · 02-06-08, 09:44 AM

Sounds good. I wouldn't be opposed to a OME lift. I for sure AM NOT a big fan of the 4" lifts required for the cummins as my car has other purposes than just a trail rig. Thanks for answering all our questions and stuff. Hope it goes well.

seray76 · 02-06-08, 09:54 AM

I agree. I didn't want to lift my truck 4" either. I also have other uses for my truck...that's why I quickly shifted my focus away from the Cummins. I will keep you posted as progress continues.

Tapage · 02-07-08, 03:03 PM

pretty interesting thread .. ( take time to read it here in the office ) looking forward to this swap with a 300 lb/p of torque engine .. ( that sounds incredible to me )

Dougal · 02-15-08, 02:51 PM

I found some nicely relevant specs (official) on these engines.
Check how flat the torque curves are on the non-turbo engines.

Here're the official (Isuzu) plots of the 4HK engines.
4HK1 engine
4HK1 engine

Official (Isuzu) plot of the 4HG1 engine
4HG1-T engine

Official (Isuzu) plot of the 4HF1 engine
4HF1 engine

Official (Isuzu) plot of the 4HE1T engine.
4HE1-T engine

lynchmob · 02-15-08, 09:18 PM

4HE is an interesting engine, but does anyone know how tall it is? With nearly 4.8 liters in a diesel 4 cyl (which are stroker motors) it seems like there would be issues similar (or worse) to the 4BT regarding the verticle size.

ThePookieBear · 02-18-08, 09:58 PM

Crap!!! Anybody know how high it is compared to a Cummins? Also, I am now going to ask a question that I searched high and low for early on but was too embarrassed to ask lest I be blasted: Can the oil pan on these tall motors be cut or otherwise modified to clear diffs and such? (if this is indeed an issue) And if so, would the oil capacity that was lost from the said cutting and welding in of a piece to clear the diff need to be regained with a remote oil reservoir of some sort? I hadn't even considered the height that much as the 4BD's seem to do okay. Hopefully its all good.

bump