Really want to do a diesel swap into my FJ60 and so I'm doing my research. I stopped by the local wrecking yard and they had an Isuzu 4HE1 available. This an automatic version (I undersand there is a difference between the auto and manual version of the engine).
I know very little about this engine other than the specs sound great to me. Additionally, this particular engine only has less than 40K miles on it. So I have lots of questions. I saw some mention in the 1BD1T swap thread, but didn't want to sidetrack that thread.
Anyhow, here are some questions. Feel free to add info that I didn't even think of.
Here are some of the questions. First of all, is this a good motor and will it fit? Any problem with exhaust (I heard it's on the opposite side of 2F). What are my transmission choices? Can this be mated to a 700R4 tranny? Also, how much electronics are on this motor?
I'm sure there are lots of things I haven't thought of that hopefully others will chime in with.
After looking at the 4BD1/2's, I'm also considering a 4HE1 swap. I am interested in using an automatic transmission and, as Sherpa on the 4BD1 thread suggested, the AW450 automatic that comes standard behind the 4HE1, appears to be related to the A440F Toyota automatic.
To pursue this direction further, I picked up a used AW450 and it looks to have the same bolt pattern between the bell housing and the main case and between the main case and the tail housing as the A440F in my FJ62.
I'm hoping that by bolting the bell housing and torque converter from an AW450 to the main body of the A440F, you can easily mate the 4HE1 to the LC drive train. The other alternative would be to keep the AW450 with the 4HE1 and bolt the LC T-case to the tail end of the AW450. This second approach may be possible as the T-case adapter on the A440F appears to have the same bolt pattern as the tail housing on the AW450. There may be other problems with this second approach such as having to also swap the output shafts.
Since I don't want to pull a perfectly good tranny out of my FJ62 to really find out, I decided to wait and find another A440F that I can tear down. Just this past weekend I picked up a junker FJ62 with all the parts and pieces that I need to try assembling a hybrid A440F/AW450 tranny. I'll post to this thread what I find out as I get further.
__________________ Stock FJ62 or two
SOA Samurai Tintop
Ford E-350 4x4 Diesel
M-29 Weasel
this weekend, with the help of ASTR's gaskets, tracings, and measurements of his A450, I verified that A440 bellhousing should bolt up to A450 (and vice versa), and A440 4WD adapter housing should bolt up to backside of the A450 tranny. Input and output shafts of his A450 are different from A440...if A440 output shaft can be swapped into A450, that would be ideal as the A450 will have proper shift points and will take the 4HE1's power/torque. I'm skeptical of the A440 living behind the 4HE1 without a complete rebuild + the upgraded valve body from Australia, and that still leaves a question mark on the A440's clutches and other internals...and starter/torque converter issues. ASTR's going to get us a LOT closer to swapping a 4HE1 ahead of an automatic in a cruiser, but there are some crucial details to be worked out to do it without a bunch of fabrication...and a tranny rebuild for a shaft swap on the front or back of the auto seems inevitable to me. Could be worse!
...Here are some of the questions. First of all, is this a good motor and will it fit? Any problem with exhaust (I heard it's on the opposite side of 2F). What are my transmission choices? Can this be mated to a 700R4 tranny? Also, how much electronics are on this motor?
I'm sure there are lots of things I haven't thought of that hopefully others will chime in with.
Thanks everyone,
I'm not aware of anyone who has swapped a 4HE1 into a Landcruiser so all this is all only speculation.
The 4HE1 is a turbocharged, intercooled 4-cylinder engine of 4.75 liter displacement. The engine that is mated to the automatic is rated at 175 hp @ 2700 rpm and 347 ft-lb at 2000 rpm. For some unknown reason, the engine mated to the manual transmission is only rated at 142 hp @ 2800 rpm and 275 ft-lb @1300 rpm. To get a clear picture, one really needs to see the actual torque/hp curves.
As you pointed out, the exhaust is on the passenger (right) side of the engine which could conflict with the Landcruiser's T-case/front drive shaft. The starter is on the driver's side and mounts from the rear so it sits alongside the transmission. It could interfere with the firewall/floor boards. The US engines are all 12 volt so no conflict there.
The 4HE1 is an interesting motor. It is a 2-valve per cylinder, direct injected diesel. It uses a gear-driven (as opposed to belt-driven) overhead cam. Like the 4BD1/2 motors, it also has a gear-driven power steering pump. What I found strange about this engine is that the whole gear train that drives the cam/power steering pump/injector pump is located at the rear of the engine, not a the front as is usual. I don't know why the Isuzu engineers choose this arrangement.
The bottom end of this engine is very rugged. Rather than use indiuvidual bearing caps for the main crankshaft journals, the whole bottom end is one big casting, sort of like a ladder, which would make for a much stronger and stiffer bottom end.
The fuel injection is provided by an in-line bosch-type pump. It is primarily a mechanical system but there are some electronics that appear to serve to modify the injection but not totally control it. From what I can tell from reading the manual, the primary function of the electonics is to provide diagnostic codes, turn on the "check engine" light, control the glow plugs and the exhaust brake. The only effect that the electronics appears to have on the fuel injection is to limit the amount of fuel injected as the coolant temp increase to keep the engine from overheating and to advance the injection timing under certain circumstances. I'm not positive about these but I have the feeling that the engine would run fine without the electonics.
I'm personally very interested in the swap. As I said in my other post, I am trying to resolve the transmission/drivetrain problem first. If that works out, I'll see if I can get my hands on an 4HE1. They are considerably more expensive hat the 4BD1/2's and are harder to find. Also, overhaul costs are more than the 4BD1/2's.
__________________ Stock FJ62 or two
SOA Samurai Tintop
Ford E-350 4x4 Diesel
M-29 Weasel
sounds like an interesting engine, is the interest mostly in the power though? the way the bottom end is made reminds me of those 1 milion cubic inch engines they make for the tanker ships. you know, the ones that put out 5 million ftlbs of torqe at 100 rpm
sounds like an interesting engine, is the interest mostly in the power though? the way the bottom end is made reminds me of those 1 milion cubic inch engines they make for the tanker ships. you know, the ones that put out 5 million ftlbs of torqe at 100 rpm
The 4HE1 replaced the 4BD2 which replaced the 4BD1 in the Isuzu line of NPR trucks. The 4HE1 itself has also been superceeded in 2006 by the 190 hp 5.2 liter 4-valve per cylinder, fuel rail injected 4HK1. I think each engine represents an improvement in power, fuel efficiency, driveability and reduction in emissions. I personally am intererested in the 4HE1 because of the possibility that mating to the Landcruiser drivetrain may turn out to be very simple (at least for the automatic tranny). And I certainly don't mind more power.
Another consideration in pursuing this approach is that, if the AW450 automatic transmission can be easily adapted to the LC drivetrain, it opens up a whole bunch of possibilities for diesel swaps as variants of the AW450 transmission were used in Nissan and Mitsubishi trucks (similar to the Isuzu NPR) which could make these engines candidates for swaps into Landcruisers.
__________________ Stock FJ62 or two
SOA Samurai Tintop
Ford E-350 4x4 Diesel
M-29 Weasel
Awesome information! I would be more inclined to use the A450 too for the reasons that Steve mentioned. Additionally, I don't have an A440 in my rig (FJ60). Sounds like the electronics are minimal. The engine I would be getting would come with all the wiring and computers.
I don't believe that any 4WD versions were brought into the states, so adapting some trasfer case to this tranny would be necessary. Would the split case be strong enough? What other cases are a possibility? And last of all, what are the gear ratios in a A450?
and let me know what you think. It would be great if we could merge these threads into a single 4BD1,4BD2,4HEI thread, or maybe a seperate thread for each one. I am serious about making these swaps possible (and easy!) and I appreciate any help I can get.
and let me know what you think. It would be great if we could merge these threads into a single 4BD1,4BD2,4HEI thread, or maybe a seperate thread for each one. I am serious about making these swaps possible (and easy!) and I appreciate any help I can get.
From what I have been able to find out, the 4HE1 is a completely different beast from the 4BD1 and 4BD2 as far as swapping into a Landcruiser. I suspect, but haven't been able to confirm, the 4HE1 is closer to the 4HK1 (current npr motor). I would suggest keeping the two threads separate as there are totally different set of issues that need to be addressed for both series of engines.
__________________ Stock FJ62 or two
SOA Samurai Tintop
Ford E-350 4x4 Diesel
M-29 Weasel
Hello there astr and others. I have been watching the 4BD2 thread and wondering how progress is coming on this one. Any more info on the AW450? Does anyone make an adapter from the 4BD2-AW450?
__________________ 1992 FJ80, stock except brush guard , and Dean MTR 33X9.5X15's.
"Don't be too quick to associate vodka with Communism."
Landrovers: "I don't understand why everything is not easy to reach on these as everything needs to be reached fairly often... "
There's a guy on 4btswaps.com with the handle "Diesel Durango".
He has swapped an Isuzu 4H series engine into his Dodge, but I don't know exactly which model.
__________________ VOODOO Engineering: Doing it first time with one clay doll, not four times with two.
Has anyone found out for sure if you can run these engines without the electronics in place, or if they do need it, how hard would it be to make it a standalone system type deal?
__________________ 1992 FJ80, stock except brush guard , and Dean MTR 33X9.5X15's.
"Don't be too quick to associate vodka with Communism."
Landrovers: "I don't understand why everything is not easy to reach on these as everything needs to be reached fairly often... "
Has anyone found out for sure if you can run these engines without the electronics in place, or if they do need it, how hard would it be to make it a standalone system type deal?
I'm not a # hungry looking for power guy, I can deal with lower power. I am looking for economy and I think this is a little better with better results on difficulty of swap.
Is the block a lower profile, ie no lift required?
Is this a more common engine, ie cheaper and easier to find?
The engine is newer but also more expensive. I'm not the guru so I'm not sure on dimensions and all that. My main concern is a) Can the engine be run either without the electronics, or are the electronics easy to manage and b) Will it work with either a built A440 or the A450. As far as I can tell, b is a yes, but A is still up in the air.
Dougal- That thread was pretty sweet. However, the engine used is the 4HF1, not the 4HE1 so I don't know about electronics. It is a similar engine as far as I can tell, but is 4.3 litres instead of 4.7. Does anyone know of a good place to find info on these engines? I want to find someone who knows them well and ask about the electronics for sure on the 4HE1's.
__________________ 1992 FJ80, stock except brush guard , and Dean MTR 33X9.5X15's.
"Don't be too quick to associate vodka with Communism."
Landrovers: "I don't understand why everything is not easy to reach on these as everything needs to be reached fairly often... "
Dougal- That thread was pretty sweet. However, the engine used is the 4HF1, not the 4HE1 so I don't know about electronics. It is a similar engine as far as I can tell, but is 4.3 litres instead of 4.7. Does anyone know of a good place to find info on these engines? I want to find someone who knows them well and ask about the electronics for sure on the 4HE1's.
4H is the series/family, the model (F or E) is primarily displacement only. I'd expect those engines to share most components.
Historically with Isuzu's a slightly higher letter means higher displacement. Also 1 normally means direct injection, 2 meaning indirect injection. This convention was broken with the 4BC2 engine being direct injection but that was over 20 years ago.
__________________ VOODOO Engineering: Doing it first time with one clay doll, not four times with two.
For those that have compared the a440 and the aw450, how do they compare in size and length? Would the aw450 require modifying the tranny tunnel housing area? And would the a440 transmission mounts be usable?
__________________ 1992 FJ80, stock except brush guard , and Dean MTR 33X9.5X15's.
"Don't be too quick to associate vodka with Communism."
Landrovers: "I don't understand why everything is not easy to reach on these as everything needs to be reached fairly often... "
I just found a complete truck with 4HE1 and the 450 tranny in it. The motor has been rebuilt and runs really strong. It's in a NQR though (bigger truck than NPR)...does that matter? I'm planning on putting it all in my 80.
__________________ 1997 FZJ80, factory lockers, OME lift, 33's, ARB front, 4x4 labs rear
1976 FJ40 almost all the fixins
For those that have compared the a440 and the aw450, how do they compare in size and length? Would the aw450 require modifying the tranny tunnel housing area? And would the a440 transmission mounts be usable?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure the 440,442,450 all use the same casing. I found a website that showed part numbers for all three trannys and many times the gaskets were the exact same part number...and the illustration showed all three to have the same casing. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'll let you know as soon as I pull it out of the truck I'm buying.
__________________ 1997 FZJ80, factory lockers, OME lift, 33's, ARB front, 4x4 labs rear
1976 FJ40 almost all the fixins
Thats what I thought. I think that you could use the 450 tranny, which would be ideal since it is designed for that type of engine and has lockup 2nd through 4th, but you would have to swap out the input shaft to make it work with the landcruiser tcase I think. Does anyone know how involved that would be?
Seray76- I hope that works out for you. If you do it, make sure to take lots of pics and all. :-). And if you don't mind my asking, what kind of price are you finding on that motor/tranny and do you know if it has the electronics intact and is running and all. Also, I think that the NQR is what the NPR turned into. Not sure though. I hope we don't have to lift the truck since it is a slightly bigger engine than the 4bd1t. Anyway, keep us posted for sure.
__________________ 1992 FJ80, stock except brush guard , and Dean MTR 33X9.5X15's.
"Don't be too quick to associate vodka with Communism."
Landrovers: "I don't understand why everything is not easy to reach on these as everything needs to be reached fairly often... "
astr
, and Dean MTR 33X9.5X15's. 
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