New Interior Tire Carrier (1 Viewer)

[little_joe]

Several ONSC club members and I have 4x4Labs rear bumpers we all built. I did not want a rear swingout for a variety of reasons, so I'd been carrying my spare in the cargo area. Recently we were all talking about spare mounts, and Jerry (mtbcoach) and I came up with a design which would allow me to securely carry the spare inside and regain some cargo space.

Here's the original thread

What you see below far exceeds my expectations in every conceivable way:

• No drilling, cutting, or modification to the interior.
• Uses all available mounting points.
• Does not impair rearward visibility.
• Is hella stout: 2x2" 1/4" wall square tube, TIG welded, with a tire mount from 4x4Labs I picked up from another Mud member.
• Designed to mount up to a 35"/315 tire.
• Does not budge.
• Did I mention hella stout?

This is a prototype: Jerry has bent up some round and square tube and is working on designs for other club members. Even as a prototype (with my crappy paint job), I am just absolutely thrilled with this.

 

[brian]

that's cool, but it's hard to beat a pair of rachet straps for ease of use.

 

[Mtbcoach]

that's cool, but it's hard to beat a pair of rachet straps for ease of use.

I would disagree, 3 lug nuts is pretty easy to me...

 

[Mtbcoach]

Here is a quick shot of the round tube version, with some refinements...

And the bent up square on top of the round...

 

[sunrk]

I'm not a mechanical engineer (even though I drive coal trains - but that's not called being an 'engineer' here in Oz!) but a couple of things with these devices...

How strong is that rear wheel arch plate for securing what is basically a cantilevered load? When a wheel is mounted, what size tyre is it set up for? I run 31 x 10.5 R15 LT tyres (Bridgestone D694's) at present and I know a lot of people like to have 33's or even 35's. If the carrier is set up to hold the wheel so the tyre is just above the cargo bay floor, something like a piece of foam rubber could be used when placing the wheel so it has some cushioning to absorb energy that would otherwise be going straight to the mounting bolts. Or it could simply be arranged so the tyre sits nicely on the top of the cargo liner which does basically the same thing as a bit of rubber.

Second, being in Oz I wonder if mounting a wheel on the LHS of the cargo bay is going to be legal. I'm assuming it wouldn't be difficult to create a mirror-image version to mount to the RHS rear wheel arch plate? There might already be some wheel carriers made light that for here in Oz so I'll hunt around and see.

I don't really like the idea of spares mounted outside the rear (Cargo area) doors since they just impair visibility IMHO. Regardless of whether they are barn doors or 'the other type'.

Craig.

 

[little_joe]

Hi Craig, I'm not an engineer either, so take this for what it's worth.

I agree putting something under the tire is a good idea, and I have done so already.

The mounting is where the 3rd row seat was. Obviously there were regulations in place for passenger safety in 1995, this uses those mounts + the seat belt mount in the floor. I am confident in the strength, but I have no technical data to support this.

The tire I show mounted is a 305. Jerry test fit it with a brand new BFG KM2 315/75R16 (35.12.50R16).

As far as which side to mount on, imho that is personal preference. I did not like the loss of visibility with it on the USPS, it obstructed the rear 3-quarter view as well as the view out the back glass. I wanted it on that side initially due to weight distribution (the US 80 has battery, gas tank, driver all on the driver side), but simply could not accept the loss of visibility.

 

[Mtbcoach]

I'm not a mechanical engineer (even though I drive coal trains - but that's not called being an 'engineer' here in Oz!) but a couple of things with these devices...

How strong is that rear wheel arch plate for securing what is basically a cantilevered load? When a wheel is mounted, what size tyre is it set up for? I run 31 x 10.5 R15 LT tyres (Bridgestone D694's) at present and I know a lot of people like to have 33's or even 35's. If the carrier is set up to hold the wheel so the tyre is just above the cargo bay floor, something like a piece of foam rubber could be used when placing the wheel so it has some cushioning to absorb energy that would otherwise be going straight to the mounting bolts. Or it could simply be arranged so the tyre sits nicely on the top of the cargo liner which does basically the same thing as a bit of rubber.

Second, being in Oz I wonder if mounting a wheel on the LHS of the cargo bay is going to be legal. I'm assuming it wouldn't be difficult to create a mirror-image version to mount to the RHS rear wheel arch plate? There might already be some wheel carriers made light that for here in Oz so I'll hunt around and see.

I don't really like the idea of spares mounted outside the rear (Cargo area) doors since they just impair visibility IMHO. Regardless of whether they are barn doors or 'the other type'.

Craig.

Hey Craig, I'm no mechanical engineer although I did consult with one. Lets see if I can help clarify what Joe already said.

Yes, I did incorporate the rear seatbelt bolt into the bracket. This increases the overall strength of the bracket due to how seatbelt attachments have regulations in the US. I also believe that Toyota has "typically" over-engineered their vehicles when it comes to safety, with the 80 series being their shining example of safety when encountering "catastrophic" events.

The seat rail bolts are designed to hold the seat, its hardware as well as the adult occupant safely which can easily weigh over 250 lbs. My 0 mile 315/75/16 BFG KM2 weighs under 100 lbs on the stock alloy. I'm feeling fine with the attachment to the vehicle.

Yes, I designed it around a 35" or 315/75/16 tire. I tried a couple sliding options but didn't like that they may rattle or loosen and /or be a failure point. A good option that Joe and I discussed was to use some inexpensive wheel chocks to help support the wheel if one felt it needed it. Frankly, driving around, it doesn't wiggle or move at all. I may need to use my GoPro camera to take a video next time we hit the trails.

Yes, I have already had some ask for a version on the passenger side. For us that drive LHD, it blocks the passenger quarter window, making a blind spot where one would have to rely 100% of the passenger side mirror. Not the best option IMHO. Yet, I know some will ask for it, so I'm also working on modifying the bracket to fit the passenger side also. The passenger side is a bit easier since the seat rail bolt holes have less angles than the driver side has.

The only difference I have to make is to flip or flop the tubing to bend it one way or the other, pretty easy when it comes to that part. Its the bracket that took the time to fabricate.

In any event, this came to fruition due to Joe's input to not have his tire outside. Its not my first pic although I understand why many like the option to mount the tire inside. As we know, its tough to get a 33" tire under the 80's, let alone having to try and get it free when off-road.

In my opinion, its better than having it on the roof or strapped down with nylon tie-downs. It is a 6 bolt installation that should take a monkey 5 minutes to remove the existing seat bracket and install this tire mount.

Its just another option for those who choose this method to secure their spare. Not for everyone but certainly for some.

Hope this helps...

Jerry

 

[sunrk]

Hi Craig, I'm not an engineer either, so take this for what it's worth.

I agree putting something under the tire is a good idea, and I have done so already.

The mounting is where the 3rd row seat was. Obviously there were regulations in place for passenger safety in 1995, this uses those mounts + the seat belt mount in the floor. I am confident in the strength, but I have no technical data to support this.

The tire I show mounted is a 305. Jerry test fit it with a brand new BFG KM2 315/75R16 (35.12.50R16).

As far as which side to mount on, imho that is personal preference. I did not like the loss of visibility with it on the USPS, it obstructed the rear 3-quarter view as well as the view out the back glass. I wanted it on that side initially due to weight distribution (the US 80 has battery, gas tank, driver all on the driver side), but simply could not accept the loss of visibility.

Doh I keep forgetting there is provision for a 3rd row of seats (mine only has 2 rows of seats) so that kind of overcomes the mounting security issues I would think. There might even be a way to come up with bracing to fix to other points to make it more stable.

What you say about weight distribution is something to consider too. There are a heap of external wheel carriers that mount a spare wheel on the RHS outside the cargo area doors and I'm assuming they mount to where the rear bar fits to the chassis. I've also seen complete rear bar replacements with wheel carriers as part of the design, but I would like to avoid have a spare wheel mounted across the vision area out the back doors, which is why I like the idea of internal mounting along the side of the cargo area.

Craig.

 

[Mtbcoach]

Doh I keep forgetting there is provision for a 3rd row of seats (mine only has 2 rows of seats) so that kind of overcomes the mounting security issues I would think. There might even be a way to come up with bracing to fix to other points to make it more stable.

Craig.

Craig - you are assuming it is not stable. Fact is, it is EXTREMELY stable, no need for any bracing at all. I only added the gusset at the request of Joe, I didn't feel it needed it.

Next time we go wheeling, I'll stick my GoPro cam in the back to show how little it moves.

I took some pics during the fitment stage that might help you visualize the mounting points...

The two front seat rail bolts...

2 of the three for the rear seat rail bolts...

The last 2, the 3rd seat rail bolt and the seat belt bolt hole...

Here are a couple pics with the 315/75/16 mounted inside...

Hope this helps...

 

[SPECTRE]

I like it, I just don't like giving up cargo room.

 

[sunrk]

Ah kewl thanks for the addtional pics - they do show the mounting quite well. I was just thinking about all the weight trying to pivot around a small area however if it's utilising pre-existing mounting points then that's not really a concern as they're already engineered into the bodywork.

Craig.

 

[JohnR]

Dip, pause, move. Dip, pause, move. Those craters are just begging to start cracking, probably sooner than later.

 

[Mtbcoach]

Dip, pause, move. Dip, pause, move. Those craters are just begging to start cracking, probably sooner than later.

Yes sir, I'm working on it every day. Please bare in mind, this was my first TIG'd project and was pieced together, where I was getting the functionality, not proper welds. They are not representative of what is coming off my torch today...

 

[kidglove13]

I like that.
What about trying to make it adjustable up and down say with a pin to accomodate larger tires like a 37
What would be the cost to have one made, I like it alot
Plus it would give me a excuse to come down to Uwharrie to hang with the guys a do some wheeln

 

[Mtbcoach]

I like that.
What about trying to make it adjustable up and down say with a pin to accomodate larger tires like a 37
What would be the cost to have one made, I like it alot
Plus it would give me a excuse to come down to Uwharrie to hang with the guys a do some wheeln

Too much chance of rattling for my comfort. I'd make one "custom" to fit a 37 instead of taking the chance rattling driving someone crazy.

PM me so we can "talk" but come down to URE regardless for our December run...

 

[JohnR]

Yes sir, I'm working on it every day. Please bare in mind, this was my first TIG'd project and was pieced together, where I was getting the functionality, not proper welds. They are not representative of what is coming off my torch today...

If you haven't checked it out, take a look at weldingweb.com ! There is a great wealth of information there! I'm sorry to have come off as harsh, it's just ~100lb suspended midair with craters galore and undercut/underfill everywhere is not a good thing! If I may ask, what's your tig rig / settings / filler for this project?

*edit*

I forgot to add, never start/stop a bead on a corner!

 

[JohnR]

*deleted*

 

[Mtbcoach]

Thanks again for your feedback. Yes, I do visit there as well as a few other Youtube resources. I'm using the Miller Diversion 180, the TIG for the stupid like me. I'm not smart enough to own a "real" TIG welder, I had to buy the dumbed downed version that doesn't allow all the user to screw up the settings. If I were smart enough to own a real TIG, I'd bought one but this is what I went with.

Again, for a moment of clarity...This is the "mock-up/prototype", not meant to see the light of day. Joe was so excited about it, something he had wanted for quite some time, I didn't object to him posting pics of it. Yet, that wasn't my intent.

I used this to form the concept, measure the angles and come up with something that was functional as well as being a bit more attractive. The REAL version is one piece of tubing (square or round) with the bracket made with one main piece of 3/16" plates with tabs of 3/16"s for the bolt mounts.

It was also used as my 1st TIG project other than running beads on plates and welding scrap pieces together. I was/am learning how to use the machine, how to weld at angles and on pieces of varying thicknesses and I made some ugly welds. I didn't prep the steel, didn't grind edges, didn't plan on sharing it with the world.

Sorry if I'm coming off defensive, don't mean to. I'd hate to see this thread deteriorate into a critique of my first attempt at TIG welding. I've got no "welding ego", I'm an Athletic Trainer by trade, wanna-be home fabricator, self-taught welder whom was asked by a friend to make him something. I'm learning everyday and have burned through a 90cf bottle since this project. I hope I can continue to learn and improve my welds and techniques for making solid, safe and more attractive welds...

The final project will have proper welds that I'll be glad to share for future critiques as well...

 

[JohnR]

The diversion is a great starting unit, no one would fault you for that! It's more than capable for more than 99% of home projects, and truthfully, 90% of most fab shops. If I may just add one thing, until you get more seat time, try doing the welds in the flat position, and just JAM the filler in there! For a new tig guy, you're doing amazing! I think my first tig project had about a pound of tungsten buried in the welds. Looks great, the design is good too. If you don't mind, I'd like to copy it.

 

[Mtbcoach]

No worries.

Oh well, there goes at least one sale...