Hafc Install Thread! (mpg Increase?!)

[SS_Storm]

Hey guys you all know I am a Certified installer, tuner and instructor for these things so feel free for any questions.

First things first. I had been waiting for my parts for 4 weeks on backorder these things are so popular they cannot keep up. it is pissing me off hahaha I cant get them as fast as I want.

So I got my kit, and progress isnt as fast as I would like as I have the flu but I am so excited to put it on my truck I went and was working on it anyway-

I did my "orange test" today which is where we test the exact hwy MPG to get a baseline for the at least 50% gain or money back claim. this has to be performed exactly as the instructions say in order to get the money back if you end up needing it.

Mileage with cruise set at 65mph was 17.9mpg
I cannot test city mpg with the kit for the improvement because I cannot recreate the exact scenario due to traffic lights ect.

So guaranteed I will hit 8.9mpg better which is 26.8... lets see if I can hit that but I am planning on much more. I am setting my GOAL at 35mpg highway

Here are some photos

First my truck so you can see what we are working with (157k miles)



today was like 105 which for me is way too hot when im not in a shop with AC :-P soo I made a shade tree :-P


and another thing to take the edge off the heat

this beer my buddy and his wife brought over was like 9.5% and I like could not think after drinking it lol like all cloudy from the flu with a buzz and hot out LOL so I was workin a little slower still.

here is a shot of the fuel cell with the cover off I am gonna put it on the passenger side front frame rail.


buddies wife in the background


and last one


Thanks guys! Ill post up more as I go

[Cj80cruiser]

I've been waiting to hear from you about this. Glad to see it's going to happen.

[SS_Storm]

Oh and once its done if any of you guys wanna take a peek at it Id love to show off my handiwork :-P

[dmos]

I'm interested too. What precisely is a fuel cell? How much does one cost etc. Can you elaborate?

[SS_Storm]

Sure, the HAFC System-
it is the Hydrogen Assist Fuel Cell
theres 4 parts to it
1)the Fuel cell- takes distilled water and creates Hydrogen and oxygen gas- this just helps the fuel burn faster we are not running the engine on this at all. it helps overcome lean spots in the cylinder also.

2)the vaproizer- a little fuel heating system with magnets in it too- just gets the fuel a bit hotter you can think of fuel burning in the sense of an old car or truck how it had a choke, cold fuel has less vapor coming off of it which is the part that burns. carbed engines had more time for the fuel to warm up as it was on its way to the cylinder, NOW new engines are designed against vaporization and squirt liquid fuel directly into the cylinder so if we heat the fuel up before it, its closer to a vapor point but as of now we cannot heat it too much so that you don't wear out your injectors ect because it is fully vaporized, we still need it in a liquid state- I have no idea if the magnets do anything but it cant hurt. it is said magnets lower the boiling points and surface tension of water so maybe it works on gas.

3) the Optimizer- this is a little piggy back computer I wire in front of your ecu. it lets it lean out your fuel and not think something is wrong and richen it automatically and get same mileage as stock even with the mods. this does not effect DTC's or MIL's (check engine light) and you still have the safety of open loop (your computer has the ability to revert to factory settings at any time if it thinks a sensor is broken, all factories put this in its pretty cool)

4)Covalizer- a fuel additive you add 1oz to 20 gallons of fuel 16 ozs come with the kit, I think its 64ozs for $20 after. So it is an agent that will also help the fuel burn faster but it also is a lubricant since your engine will be running on so much less fuel. and one other property I cannot remember.... uhh yeah if I remember Ill edit.

:-)

EDIT: OH the "kit" of parts is priced right around $1000 I think $998 but for the 50% guarantee to be enforced you have to have it either just tuned or tuned and installed (I cannot remember which) by a certified installer- that will run you about $1000-$1300 for an install and tune and I dont know for just a tune alone so you would be looking at about $2200~

[Cj80cruiser]

So the vaporizer, is it like a propane vaporizer in that you run your trucks water lines through it? Or is it electrical? Or what?

[SS_Storm]

just an aluminum piece that is strapped to your hot radiator hose and than encased in fiberglass strapping to hold heat on it.

[Rubencito]

People, please do yourself a favor and Google "Dennis Lee scam"

Sorry Blake, I'm sure you believe Hafc is a good product, but I'm pretty sure you've been scammed.


Best Regards

Ruben

[jonheld]

Originally Posted by SS_Storm

Mileage with cruise set at 65mph was 17.9mpg

Let me understand this...at 65 MPH with a lifted truck, armor, larger tires, with 150+K miles on it you got 18 MPG.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Pleeeeze...stop...it...hurts.

[SS_Storm]

2 Replies :-)
Thanks for your concern Ruben, but I have already installed this on a camry and for 47mpg out of it :-P... I dont' give a hoot about dennis lee, he is an investor who has attached himself to crazy stuff and idk what else but I know first hand this works. I have done it myself. I talk to the inventor of the system on a regular basis on the phone. it MAY be a super elaborate hoax... but it worked. I went to a training class in phoenix to get certified for this system. So yeah it could be a scam but I'm thinking no. (stay tuned for me crying about losing my money :-P )


Jon, I was STUNNED at that number too hahahah like when ever I fill I'm lucky to see 14mpg. I have no idea how it got almost 18 in my test but I always read that thats what people get around these speeds.
I think it has a lot to do with my 4.88 gears,

[Rusty55]

Originally Posted by SS_Storm

2 Replies :-)
Thanks for your concern Ruben, but I have already installed this on a camry and for 47mpg out of it :-P... I dont' give a hoot about dennis lee, he is an investor who has attached himself to crazy stuff and idk what else but I know first hand this works. I have done it myself. I talk to the inventor of the system on a regular basis on the phone. it MAY be a super elaborate hoax... but it worked. I went to a training class in phoenix to get certified for this system. So yeah it could be a scam but I'm thinking no. (stay tuned for me crying about losing my money :-P )


Jon, I was STUNNED at that number too hahahah like when ever I fill I'm lucky to see 14mpg. I have no idea how it got almost 18 in my test but I always read that thats what people get around these speeds.
I think it has a lot to do with my 4.88 gears,

I think there may be some validity to a HHO but I'm not sure how it can really work. I would be willing to test one and see, do they have one for a carb?

[jditom]

I use to get 17.5 on the highway with my lifted LC, AT tires and no ETOH in the gas. Now with same size mud tires and ETOH (10%) I get 14.5

[SS_Storm]

yeah I think its only $100 cheaper because you don't get the optimizer and you have to play with your timing and jetting you'll want around 3* retard for your spark than lean it out

[landtank]

I used to get similar MPGs on my 96 until I replaced the O2 sensors. Running an engine lean to increase MPGs is no big deal, do so without destroying the engine is the hard part.

How are you going to evaluate this setup to ensure you aren't damaging the engine? Or are you going to assume it's OK?

[SS_Storm]

well thats what that additive is. its something to ensure that you aren't damaging the engine by running it lean. I have no way to tell if it needs more than that.

if all I were doing was leaning it out than all I would do is install the optimizer and lean it out, this is a whole system designed for using less fuel

[Beowulf]

Originally Posted by SS_Storm

So guaranteed I will hit 8.9mpg better which is 26.8... lets see if I can hit that but I am planning on much more. I am setting my GOAL at 35mpg highway

Originally Posted by SS_Storm

stay tuned for me crying about losing my money.

Blake,
Since you have a vested interest in this product and doing the installs, can you give us the details of this 'guarantee'? Does the company really give back cash money? What time period for the guarantee? Does the company give back 100% of the cost of the product and the installation? Does the company pay to have the product removed or do you have to eat that too? Does the installer get reimbursed for de-install? Does the company pay for all engine damages caused by the installation of their product?

Does the company make any performance claims? (e.g. No loss in 0-60 times or top speed.)

I realize this sounds like piling-on but the only way you'll get 35mpg (consistently) out of a 6,000# lifted 4WD, 4.88 geared, mud-tyred, armored 80-Series is by doing an engine swap and putting in a 1.4L 4-cylinder engine. [No performance guarantee, of course.]

-B-

[landtank]

Originally Posted by SS_Storm

well thats what that additive is. its something to ensure that you aren't damaging the engine by running it lean. I have no way to tell if it needs more than that.

if all I were doing was leaning it out than all I would do is install the optimizer and lean it out, this is a whole system designed for using less fuel

so you are going to assume it's OK then.

[NLXTACY]

OK screw the screw the HHO, I want to know how to get 17.9MPG on the highway!!!!!!

I would be soooo happy JUST to get that MPG bump. I am currently knocking on 14MPG's door.

[Tuning Haus]

first off, i am VERY glad you got the kit i blake and that you've posted for all of us to see. i seriously hope this thing works as well or better than it claims!

also, that is really good how you got 17-18 mpg out of your truck!?!? how many miles did you drive? was it on a filled up tank? etc. i think i am right around 12- 14 mpg or so too.. i need to change my oil and get new plugs though.

i know what landtank is trying to say and if it's not too hard, can you do a compression test and purhaps a leak down test prior to doing this install? that'd be one way to keep check of your engine's health. i don't know if getting a wideband will help but i think that'd be nice to (also prior to installing the kit- so we'll know how much A/F ratio is before and after)

good luck, hope you feel better soon and hope you get this project up and running!

ps- i don't like how you have to fork out another $1000 JUST to get a possible refund??? that itself sounds pretty fishy... i mean to install tihs, doesn't look or sound TOO hard or something i'd want to spend $1000 on.

[landtank]

Am I wrong in thinking that the only way to ensure that the mileage gain is for real is to dyno the truck before and after to be sure the the engine's performance is comparable after the install and the MPG gains are indeed from this gizmo?

[-Spike-]

Seems to me that engine performance drops would be expected. Civics don't accelerate like Camaros. Does the company suggest there will be no performance drop?

-Spike

[SS_Storm]

Beowulf- The company refunds your cost for the parts themselves, you would be dealing with an installer who can set his own labor rates ect and its not the factories fault that the installer cant tune for crap and cant get your 50 % so a good installer should give your money back but I have gotten upwards of 80% on each of the cars I have done so far so I don't know.
Power actually increases! I have no idea how much but seat of the pants its noticeable. The higher ups at the company had mentioned around 20% more power and many people getting interested for performance aspects only but I have no proof of anything.
35 is the goal I don't have to hit it but I'm aiming for the stars :-P

Tuning Haus- Yeah Id like to do all that too but sadly I don't have that disposable income. I just ordered 4 more kits :-P
Ill be shooting for about a 25:1 ratio- some of the civics they have done end up with about a 60:1 and I have no idea how they are running. (oh and 55 miles on a full tank.)

landtank- I am not setting down concrete stuff by any means I am not even offering to sell these kits to anyone here its just my build log where people can see something that could help as gas prices keep on going up. I am just showing it can be done. if the numbers are not proven enough for you I'm sorry but I don't have the money or even more so the time to be having my truck on a dyno.

[jasonmt]

Originally Posted by jonheld

Let me understand this...at 65 MPH with a lifted truck, armor, larger tires, with 150+K miles on it you got 18 MPG.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Pleeeeze...stop...it...hurts.

On a calm day running summer fuel I can get 13km/100l (~18mpg) with the cruise set @ 110km/hr with a rig similar to SS_Storm's AND I have a roof rack,


And 37" Iroks


And 4:10 gears


And a 1HDT engine...

[jonheld]

I love those world wide webs.

This whole thread is full of half truths and pseudo-science.

In post #3 you stated, "so if we heat the fuel up before it, its closer to a vapor point but as of now we cannot heat it too much so that you don't wear out your injectors ect because it is fully vaporized”

Fuel vaporizes at 300C (572F) at 1ATM. The fuel in a fuel injection system is pressurized. You would have to heat the fuel close to exhaust temperatures within the fuel system to have any effect on vaporization. I call BS.

You then continued with, "I have no idea if the magnets do anything but it cant hurt. it is said magnets lower the boiling points and surface tension of water so maybe it works on gas.”

This is true. With the use of superconductor electromagnets under laboratory conditions, studies have shown that there is a small effect on surface tension. I call BS again.

The kicker for me is this statement, "Power actually increases! I have no idea how much but seat of the pants its noticeable. The higher ups at the company had mentioned around 20% more power and many people getting interested for performance aspects only but I have no proof of anything.”

So we’re now putting out 255HP and getting 35MPG. Somewhere along the road we have forgotten the law of conservation of energy.

[Brian894X4]