Hafc Install Thread! (mpg Increase?!) (2 Viewers)

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Seems to me that engine performance drops would be expected. Civics don't accelerate like Camaros. Does the company suggest there will be no performance drop?

-Spike
 
Beowulf- The company refunds your cost for the parts themselves, you would be dealing with an installer who can set his own labor rates ect and its not the factories fault that the installer cant tune for crap and cant get your 50 % so a good installer should give your money back but I have gotten upwards of 80% on each of the cars I have done so far so I don't know.
Power actually increases! I have no idea how much but seat of the pants its noticeable. The higher ups at the company had mentioned around 20% more power and many people getting interested for performance aspects only but I have no proof of anything.
35 is the goal I don't have to hit it but I'm aiming for the stars :p

Tuning Haus- Yeah Id like to do all that too but sadly I don't have that disposable income. I just ordered 4 more kits :p
Ill be shooting for about a 25:1 ratio- some of the civics they have done end up with about a 60:1 and I have no idea how they are running. (oh and 55 miles on a full tank.)

landtank- I am not setting down concrete stuff by any means I am not even offering to sell these kits to anyone here its just my build log where people can see something that could help as gas prices keep on going up. I am just showing it can be done. if the numbers are not proven enough for you I'm sorry but I don't have the money or even more so the time to be having my truck on a dyno.
 
Let me understand this...at 65 MPH with a lifted truck, armor, larger tires, with 150+K miles on it you got 18 MPG.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Pleeeeze...stop...it...hurts.

On a calm day running summer fuel I can get 13km/100l (~18mpg) with the cruise set @ 110km/hr with a rig similar to SS_Storm's AND I have a roof rack,


And 37" Iroks


And 4:10 gears


And a 1HDT engine...
 
I love those world wide webs.

This whole thread is full of half truths and pseudo-science.

In post #3 you stated, "so if we heat the fuel up before it, its closer to a vapor point but as of now we cannot heat it too much so that you don't wear out your injectors ect because it is fully vaporized”

Fuel vaporizes at 300C (572F) at 1ATM. The fuel in a fuel injection system is pressurized. You would have to heat the fuel close to exhaust temperatures within the fuel system to have any effect on vaporization. I call BS.

You then continued with, "I have no idea if the magnets do anything but it cant hurt. it is said magnets lower the boiling points and surface tension of water so maybe it works on gas.”

This is true. With the use of superconductor electromagnets under laboratory conditions, studies have shown that there is a small effect on surface tension. I call BS again.

The kicker for me is this statement, "Power actually increases! I have no idea how much but seat of the pants its noticeable. The higher ups at the company had mentioned around 20% more power and many people getting interested for performance aspects only but I have no proof of anything.”

So we’re now putting out 255HP and getting 35MPG. Somewhere along the road we have forgotten the law of conservation of energy.
 
well thats what that additive is. its something to ensure that you aren't damaging the engine by running it lean. I have no way to tell if it needs more than that.

if all I were doing was leaning it out than all I would do is install the optimizer and lean it out, this is a whole system designed for using less fuel

Sounds like the additive might just be some kind of octane booster. Do they list the main ingredient? Something like tetra-ethyl lead or MTBE. That might where they are getting the "lubricating" the engine thing from too.

Landtank...did changing your 02 sensors actually improve fuel economy, even if they didn't kick on the light yet? What mileage were they at?

It's funny that people are complaining about 14 mpg. I just recently got 14 in a tank after more than a year of 9-12 and I was estatic. That was on premium fuel though.
 
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Landtank...did changing your 02 sensors actually improve fuel economy, even if they didn't kick on the light yet? What mileage were they at?


Actually changing my O2 sensors dropped my MPG numbers. But the engine also ran so much better and handled hills much easier. I now have similar MPG numbers that others have.

I'd love to see something like this be a real improvement but since he has an OBD1 truck even simple scanning of the ECU isn't possible. If your sole purpose is better fuel economy at any cost then I'm sure you will get there.
 
I am very, very skeptical but it sounds like the best of intentions. through just a quick search-

Hydro Assist Fuel Cell / Plasma Gasoline / HAFC - Topic Powered by eve community
I have installed a HAFC unit on a 2005 Buick. The devices were installed correctly with great care. Each of the components worked as designed including the fuel cell. However, the system does not work as advertised. In my opinion, the "optimizer" is a real problem. It has the effect of sending a substituted O2 signal to the vehicle's engine controller that has the effect of leaning the
mixture to the limits of the engine computers range of authority. The effect is a poorly running engine with no power. After the engine ran for an hour, the computer reverted to "open loop" which has the effect of ignoring the
"optimizer". "Open loop" settings have the effect of reducing fuel economy instead of raising it. In my opinion, the system can not work as advertised.
Further research on my part confirms that the "water gas" produced by the fuel
cell is insufficient to produce fuel savings of 50% by a factor of 50 to 90
times depending on how I perform BTU calculations. Real world tests on the vehicle
with the fuel cell working (producing up to 2 liters of "water gas" a minute),
produced no change in fuel efficiency. Company training videos suggest that the vehicle's computer will "fight" the system unless a "trained " technician "tunes" the system. The only adjustment possible on our 3x version was a potentiometer in the "Optimizer". Turning the potentiometer adjustment had no effect on the modified oxygen sensor signal coming out of the "optimizer". Regardless of adjustment or operating conditions, the "optimizer" sent out a 900mv signal to the vehicle computer. A constant 900mv signal to the vehicle computer will certainly cause fuel savings for a few minutes, but, as it is designed to do, the vehicle computer will soon reject this kind of signal completely. Bottom line: this system is a complete collection of "smoke and mirrors". I know. I installed one. I guess we want to believe that
companies like HAFC are truthful but I can see major problems for this company.
In my opinion, potential customers should be warned away from this company.
Thanks

________________
Dennis Lee Scam & Hydro Boost Scam
_______________
 
The boiling point of gasoline varies, at atmospheric pressure, between 100 and 400 *F. A primary cause of this variance is the various additives in the gasoline from different refiners designed to meet different octane requirements. (taken from yahoo)

well I sure hope I can make this work than! I dont want to loose my money HAH
 
OH! and theres more ways to tune, its hidden :p they teach us how in the classes but we sign a contract saying we won't disclose how SORRY!
 
OH! and theres more ways to tune, its hidden :p they teach us how in the classes but we sign a contract saying we won't disclose how SORRY!

This thread really needs to be in chat. This is not a tech thread and is certain to turn into a divisive topic. Chat will sort out the claims and it will still be here on 'Mud for all to participate. Besides, the 40 & 60 drivers need to improve their fuel economy too. ;)

-B-
 
what ever you think beowulf, I would prefer to stay in here but if you have a problem with me upholding something I signed than chat it is ;) if everyone knew how how would we make any money?

Also it is tech I am showing myself bolting stuff on my truck thats awesome tech! :p
and if its a source of division who cares, I dont think Pamela Anderson is attractive you do, I could care less. it should be the same in here I believe I will get better mileage I really don't care if people don't believe I will but if they pose something I can answer like a question Id love to reply :) and if I don't
get any gains I will tell you all. If I do but less than 50% Ill tell that too. unbiased reporting
 
This thread really needs to be in chat. This is not a tech thread and is certain to turn into a divisive topic. Chat will sort out the claims and it will still be here on 'Mud for all to participate. Besides, the 40 & 60 drivers need to improve their fuel economy too. ;)

-B-

Dude whats wrong with some one trying something new? if you dont "believe" in it then just skip past the thread. Not saying this is legit but hey if some ones willing to try it and post up then more power to them. :meh:
 
the good thing about all this is that it proves that the major car companies, their engineers, marketers, designers, and accountants are all idiots since they spent billions trying to buy politicos to nix the CAFE increase, and here they could install this kind of gizmo all along and double their CAFE with no trouble at all.... :D



:rolleyes:
 
Its stays in tech for now.

I also am very skeptical however it is being installed on an 80 and we will at least wait until the results are in before we all go over the deep end and call BS. I for one don't know enough about the system in question to ascertain its validity, however I do question the 'sense' in purposely running ones engine as lean as I believe this is suggesting. Also I don't ever see how this could even be contemplated for a forced induction rig.

Let it run its course fella's.
 
Hello Blake:
I am wondering what your level of Mechanical background is? Are you a tech with several years of experience in Auto repair? Interesting stuff. I have been too busy the last several weeks to really look into this stuff yet. I have contacted a trainer to see what the costs are associated with this just to find out info. So you went to the 5 day class in Phoenix? Or was it longer? Anyhow good luck with this project, looking forward to seeing the numbers and how much it works for you.
 
Dude whats wrong with some one trying something new? if you dont "believe" in it then just skip past the thread. Not saying this is legit but hey if some ones willing to try it and post up then more power to them. :meh:

Mikey,
I am not challenging if this is a valid topic for discussion on 'Mud and there is nothing wrong with someone trying something new, even if it is a well-documented scam perpetrated by a convicted felon (e.g. Dennis Lee.)

However, I don't believe that this is a valid TECH topic any more than a thread about my new friend from Nigeria who wants to send me TWELVE MILLION US AMERICAN DOLLARS so I can do a few more mods to my truck. Neither of these topics are 80-Series tech, and both are well known scams. Chat, I say.

I'll leave you with a few clichès.
"There is a sucker born every minute."
"A fool and his money are quickly parted."
"Believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see."


Take the $3,000 dollars you'll spend on this snake oil and buy stock in Exxon. You'll be able to retire when you reach my age. :D

[Disclaimer: I am not a financial adviser. You assume all risks with investments. The stock market may go up and it may go down. I have no control over the stock market. I make no representations as to the validity of a recommendation to buy or sell Exxon. I have no ownership in Exxon. I cannot even buy their fuel 'cause there isn't an outlet in my city. Do whatever the hell you want to do but pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. That is all. Please don't sue me.]

:popcorn:

-B-
 
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Powder- I am a mechanic from a course I took in high school so I am legal to work in a shop but I have no experience in a shop professionally ( I sell fiber optics for a living)
 
While I am a skeptic, I'm going to wait for some objective data (dyno results, a good # of sample points, customer reports from guinea pigs...oops I mean forum members) before I conclude anything. I would think the company would realize that funding objective test methods to collect data for specific vehicles would really help sell their product, but the proof is in the pudding, so perhaps that's why they're being so vague about it.
 

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