Narrow Band vs. Wide Band Oxygen Sensor Summary (1 Viewer)

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Fine folks, I have had a couple of requests to sort of summarize narrow band vs. wide band oxygen sensors. I will dutifully do my best but please realize I'm a weekend warrior and not an expert at such things. I will link this thread to the threads on Wide Band Sensors (Part I) and (Part II) in the hope it helps mudders who venture to those threads first. Ohh much of this is Toyota Motor Sales' proprietary information - just wanted to admit the piracy at the start! :D

First some fundamentals:

- The ECM uses oxygen sensors to ensure that the air/fuel ratio is correct for the catalytic converter/s, so that vehicle efficiency is maximized, and so that vehicle emissions are minimized. Based on the oxygen sensor signals, the ECM will adjust the amount of fuel injected into the intake system's air stream.

- The two most common styles of sensor are ... the "Narrow Range" or "Narrow Band" oxygen sensor, which is the oldest style, and which is simply called the "Oxygen Sensor" in the sense that this implies Narrow Range or Narrow Band ... the other style oxygen sensor is the "Wide Range" or "Wide Band" oxygen sensor, which is the newest style, and which is commonly called "Wide Range", "Wide Band" or even the "Air/Fuel RATIO" oxygen sensor.

- On OBDII (On Board Diagnostics II) vehicles such as the 80's after 95, two oxygen sensors (remember the implied thing of "Narrow Band" here) are required one of which is placed before the catalytic converter/s and one of which is placed after the catalytic converter/s. The oxygen sensor which is placed before the catalytic converter/s is used by the ECM to adjust the air/fuel ratio. This sensor in OBDII terms is referred to as "Sensor 1". On the other hand the oxygen sensor which is placed after the catalytic converter/s is used by the ECM primarily to determine catalytic converter efficiency. This sensor in OBDII terms is referred to as "Sensor 2."

- Old style oxygen sensors (implied "Narrow Band") are made of zirconia, with platinum electrodes and a heater element. The oxygen sensor generates a voltage signal based on the amount of oxygen in the exhaust compared to the amount of oxygen in the atmosphere. The zirconia element has one side exposed to the exhaust stream and the other side is exposed to the atmosphere. Each side of the zirconia element also has a platinum electrode attached. The platinum electrodes conduct the voltage generated. The way this works is when there is less oxygen in the exhaust, there is a large difference in oxygen content when compared to the amount of oxygen in the atmosphere. This in turn produces a higher voltage signal. On the other hand, when there is more oxygen in the exhaust, there is a small difference in oxygen content when compared to the amount of oxygen in the atmosphere. (Please note that this does not mean that there is more or less oxygen in the exhaust than in the atmosphere, it means it is comparing the delta of those two things, large delta = higher voltage signal ... low delta = lower voltage signal ... it is a comparative measurement).

Now, let's look at some actual signals as shown voltages...

With low exhaust oxygen content, we will have high oxygen sensor output which will show as something above .45volts which indicates a rich running condition.

With high exhaust oxygen content, we will have low oxygen sensor output which will show as something below .45 volts which indicates a lead running condition.

From the oxygen content, and the resulting signals, the ECM can determine if the air/fuel ratio is rich or lean and it adjusts the fuel mixture accordingly...

A rich mixture has less oxygen so the voltage signal is high in the range of .6 up to 1.0 volts.

A lean mixture has more oxygen so the voltage signal is low in the range of .4 down to .1 volts.

At the stoichiometric air/fuel ratio of 14.7:1, which is considered ideal for efficiency and emissions, oxygen sensor voltage output is approximately .45 volts which is right in the middle of lean or rich.

Because of the obviously limited range of the old style oxygen sensor ( .1 volt up to .9 volts or so ) the old style oxygen sensor is indeed unable to detect exactly how "lean" or how "rich" the air/fuel mixture is. So essentially the old style oxygen sensor acts as a relatively rapid switch and simply switches from lean to stoich to rich and back and forth and back and forth. This explains the oscillating effect of regular air/fuel gauges which are basically just showing the stoich switch effect.

Also because of the obviously limited range of the old style oxygen sensor, small changes in the air/fuel ratio from the set stoichiometric air/fuel ratio of 14.7:1 will really radically change the voltage signal of the oxygen sensor. Again, the oxygen sensor cannot detect the small subtle changes in the exhaust stream oxygen content produced by changes in the air/fuel mixture. Therefore, in the presence of these really radical changes in voltage signals, the ECM will continuously add and subtract fuel producing a lean/rich cycle that oscillates back and forth over and over.




- Now lets switch to the "Air/Fuel RATIO Sensor" (aka A/F Sensor) (implied "Wide Band"). The A/F Sensor voltage signal is relatively proportional to the exhaust oxygen content. In other words, it is not a comparative measurement between the basic deltas of amount of oxygen in the exhaust vs. amount of oxygen in the atmosphere as in the Narrow Band. Instead it is a signal that shows the proportions of oxygen in the exhaust. The A/F Sensor changes its current in relation to the amount of oxygen in the exhaust. A circuit then completes the translation, detects the direction and strength of the current flow, and puts out a voltage signal relatively proportional to the exhaust oxygen content.

Now let's look at some actual signals as shown voltages...

The A/F Sensor is designed so that at the stoichiometric set point of 14.7:1 there is absolutely no current flow and the resulting voltage signal put out by the circuit is 3.3 volts.

A rich mixture whcih leaves very little oxygen in the exhaust stream, produces a negative current flow and the circuit will produce a voltage signal below 3.3 volts.

A lean mixture which has more oxygen in the exhaust stream, produces a positive current flow and the circuit will produce a voltage signal above 3.3 volts.

It is important to really realize that with the A/F Sensor (Wide Band) the voltage signal IS proportional to the change in the air/fuel mixture. Think of the A/F Sensor as a generator capable of changing polarity. When the fuel mixture is rich (low oxygen content), the A/F Sensor generates current in the negative direction. As the fuel mixture gets lean (high oxygen content) the A/F Sensor generates current in the positive direction. And lastly when the exhaust is at the stoichiometric set point, there is no current generated.

There is a cool chart that I cannot connect to this thread but essentially we have a two axis chart that compares the A/F Sensor voltage signal to the A/F Ratio. Most A/F Sensors have an output of 1 to 4 volts. By eyeball, a 2.4 volt reading on the A/F Sensor equals a A/F Ratio of 12.0 which is really rich. Think of the amount of air to the amount of fuel with 12 parts air to one part fuel being rich. On the other hand a 4.0 volt reading on the A/F Sensor equals a A/F Ratio of almost 20 which is really really really lean. Again, think of 20 parts air to one part fuel being lean.

On our rigs, and with the A/F Sensor and A/F Gauge that I have here, we will typically see ratios somewhere between 10 (Really Rich) to 16 (Really Lean). In general when the rigs are running in "Closed Loop" the ratios are right around 14.7. Sometimes at idle and with hot weather, we will see Idle Ratios of 15.3 or 15.5 but I think that is still "Closed Loop Operation" (still some question about that though). Additionally, in general (at least with my rig) when the rigs are running in "Open Loop" the ratios adjust right away to approximately 12.6 (Rich) and then get richer and richer the longer you stay stuck to the pedal. I have seen ratios of 10.2 after really pushing the performance for a stretch.

So, as I have concluded in the other threads about Wide Band Oxygen Sensor Readings, it seems that on our rigs, which were all equipped with the old style oxygen sensors, the 14.7:1 "ideal" ratio for efficiency and emissions seems to stay impressively steady and indicates that the rig is in Closed Loop most of the time. However when the rig is in Open Loop, toyota clearly plays it pretty "safe" by having a really rich mixture. This leads to lots of other discussions but for the moment, and again at the request of several fine folks here, I'm trying to simply summarize the operation of our oxygen sensors (Narrow Band) as well as the operation of my A/F Sensor (Wide Band). I hope this helps. :cheers:
 
Excellent job and thanks for clarifying. Now I have a better understanding of what you are talking about in your other thread when your giving readings.
 
Cliff notes???

Do I need new/different 02 sensors, or what? :D

Curtis
 
There is a cool chart that I cannot connect to this thread but essentially we have a two axis chart that compares the A/F Sensor voltage signal to the A/F Ratio.

This one?
Wide-vs-Narrow-O2.jpg
 
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This one?

That's great for the old style oxygen sensor. Do you have the same thing for the new style "oxygen sensor" which will read voltages from 1 to 4 volts? Actually that diagram there really clearly visualizes exactly WHY the old style oxygen sensor is simply a stochiometry switch; that very vertical range of "stoich" with the two flat tails when it is out of "stoich" is exactly why the old style oxygen sensor is so "switchy". The new style "oxygen sensor" aka Wide Band will have a much more linear response over a range of 1 to 4 volts. That would be cool to collect on this thread too. Thanks B. :cheers::cheers::cheers:
 
That came from an Autometer PDF on their Model 2650-837J, 2-1/16" AIR / FUEL RATIO MONITOR.

What model do you have?

-B-
 
That came from an Autometer PDF on their Model 2650-837J, 2-1/16" AIR / FUEL RATIO MONITOR.

What model do you have?

-B-

I have the AutoMeter Wide Band 3378. Thanks. :cheers:
 
turbocruiser,

My earlier post was admittedly flippant, but I still had/have some serious questions:

Are you saying we all (or just OBDII folks, or...?) can benefit from these newer style sensors?

Are new Toyota sensors wide band? Or one needs to go aftermarket? Or...?

Please help a brutha out who thoroughly read and appreciates what you posted, but who has no clue what the context is...
 
turbocruiser,

My earlier post was admittedly flippant, but I still had/have some serious questions:

Are you saying we all (or just OBDII folks, or...?) can benefit from these newer style sensors?

Are new Toyota sensors wide band? Or one needs to go aftermarket? Or...?

Please help a brutha out who thoroughly read and appreciates what you posted, but who has no clue what the context is...

No worries whatsoever.

I guess I'm sorta saying that for forced induction of any sort it is important to have the extra range and the extra resolution of the Wide Band sensors. To be completely clear though the Wide Band Sensor & Wide Band Gauge that I have does nothing to tune the vehicle for me, it is not connected at this time to the ECM or to a piggy back product on top of the ECM it is simply showing me the A/F ratio of the rig; it just helps me to know exactly what the vehicle is doing at any particular time and with any particular modification. So, no I'm not saying we all can really benefit from these newer style sensors other than to the educational extent that it will tell you exactly what's happening with the A/F ratio.

Yes, some new Toyota sensors are wideband and I think that some of them are actually connected into the ECM with the ECM making the most of the range and the resolution of the widebands to further tune according to the wideband's outputs. I dont really know which vehicles in toyota's lineup have this feature either partially or fully but according to Toyota Motor Sales it is out there. I personally think this is the way of the future, makes so much sense. But, to answer the context of that to the 80, no, as far as I know there is no plug and play OEM wideband sensor that would work with the 80 much of the electronic equipment necessary to make that work is missing in the 80's. Cruiserdan can answer that and also answer if these newer vehicles with these newer sensors actually show the driver the readings or if they are simply sent to the ECM to use to determine the air/fuel mixture. I would definitely doubt that they would have wideband gauges installed in stock vehicles to show the driver the readings but who knows?

What I was trying to do is summarize the similarities and basic differences between a NB and WB oxygen sensor more to help the threads that are about the WB recently. I hope this helps some. :cheers::cheers::cheers:
 
Turbocruiser: Given that I am a total newbie to this whole off road experience (but when your wife of 44 years wants to explore the great southwest, you pay back for her putting up with you for all this time :)) I didn't even know there was such a thing as an O2 sensor a week ago. Now my local wrench benders tell me that the check engine light codes to defective O2 Sensor(s) and they want $500.00 for the pair. I look online and I can find sensors from less than $25.00 to over $100.00 and I really do not know the difference. I read of people replacing sensors and then getting codes that say their catalytic convertors are shot. I read of people who say I should buy a scanguage II and mount it in my rig to clear the occasional code until it becomes an obvious problem. I see some replacement parts are speced for normally aspirated units and I have an aftermarket supercharger installed. Other MUDDERS say I should buy ONLY genuine Toyota Parts and if I take that to its absurd conclusion and buy only Lexus Parts I know I will pay two bucks for the name for every dollar I pay for the part. Finally, I do not know if this is a job I can do myself (even if I get the special wrench that is offered on some sites) or if this is a job for a licenced wrench bender.

I need an anwer pretty quickly since I am heading for Las Vegas on Thursday morning and if I can get the right parts ordered by then I will take the Lexus down and fix it there. Otherwise I will take my GMC Acadia down and worry about the Lexus this summer. Your advice would be most gratefully received.
 
You can order the o2 sensors from CruiserDan at American Toyota in Albuquerque, NM 800-432- 6668 as he gives the Mud discount to forum members.

I am not sure what the price is though.

It SHOULD be relatively easy IF your exhaust isn't terriblly rusted. Even if it is not terriblly rusted I would start soaking the O2 fittings with penetrating oil like PB Blaster or a similar product ASAP. This will allow it to penetrate the threads and corrosion. This will ease your wrenching process. You will probablly need to apply it several times over a few days for best results.

Hope that helps & welcome to Mud!
 
yep, call cruiser dan and get a pair of oem plug n play denso sensors. i got mine at sparkplugs.com though, only because they shipped to canada via USPS. $80 for the front and $75 for the back iirc.

go for the oe replacement, not universal ones which you have to splice in. save yourself the headache and buy the proper ones. pre soak the nuts as mentioned, and you should be able to wrench em off without issue. i applied some never seize on installation...clear the code & done.

but be sure that its an O2 sensor CEL...and not something else. you should be able to get free readings from your local vatozone...
 
turbocruiser:

Thanks for the great summary.. I wish there was more experts would do summaries like these.

I happen to be planning a ODB1 to ODBII ecu conversion for my 3F-E 80. I'm looking at replacing the precat O2 sensors with A/F and move the narrow band to post cat.

Researching the conversion, I found that there is a lot of myth about OEM and aftermarket O2 sensors and similar talk about A/F sensors. I dug deeper and found the sensors are very sensitive to operating temperature. From reading about different manuals it seems the OEM sensors only require 1 amp for the heater while bosch sensors will consume up to 4 amperes. If the ecu limits the heater current to under 4 amps, it will effect the operation of the bosch sensor. A low heater temperature will reduce the sensor voltage making the mix look lean to the ecu. This coincides with the complaints that bosch O2 sensors make the FJs run rich and have poor mileage.

I have bosch sensors on my LC now, I was going to measure the current on the sensors to see if its 4 amps or 1 amp, but -11 is too freakin' cold out to muck with it.

In another topic I posted a link to the technical data sheets for the bosh O2 sensors. Does anyone have the technical data sheets for the Denso O2 sensors ? Or have the toyota data sheets for them ?
 
d0ubledown said:
... i got mine at sparkplugs.com though, only because they shipped to canada via USPS. $80 for the front and $75 for the back iirc.

Thanks for the tip. My CEL just came on yesterday afternoon. I'll check the code today, and if I need an O2 sensor, I'll order one from sparkplugs.com. I replaced the front one (NTK P/N 24557) a couple of years ago and paid CAN$280 and the Lexus dealer wanted CAN$320.00:eek:, BTW, I just checked out their site and the front one is $88.85 and the rear is $108.85.
 
A person should be wary of someone who reads the code only and tells you to replace that part. The air/fuel mixture is effected by a bunch of stuff before it gets to the sensors. For example, a fuel injector could be jacked up so the air/fuel mixture is messed up. A leak in the exhaust system will throw a O2 code because it won't see the true exhaust flow across it. Mechanics will say that the cats are bad because changinging the sensors didn't solve the problem. A bad cat will not preform the correct chemical reation in the exhaust and the computer will throw a code saying the sensor is bad. In other words, a wrench monkey who starts changing out parts and spending your money without doing an true diagnosis is not a mechanic.
 

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