Wits End Turbo Owners (17 Viewers)

Joined
Feb 10, 2017
Messages
1,063
Location
Seattle
Just noodling out loud here....too rich means too much fuel so are you thinking that the pressurized air is leaking out before going into the throttle body? You have only two places that can do this at the bends, unless the TBI has gasket leaks or intake manifold gasket is leaking. Since you rebuilt the engine, I wouldn't think that'd be the case. :hmm:
Exactly. It'd be a leak post turbo, pre cylinder. Not seeing any leaks on the manifold or TB but going to replace both gaskets just to see.
 

alia176

SILVER Star
Joined
Aug 21, 2003
Messages
12,800
Location
Tijeras, NM
Let us know how it handles the temperature over time. I looked that one up, not rated very high.

Totally agreed, both units are polycarbonate and won't last long. The right unit is from Home Depot and it's prolly seven years old and been discoloring over time. Now that the turbo puts 200+deg of air temp on top of the engine (confirmed by a thermocouple), I'd be curious how long they both will last. I'd love to find a glass unit to replace them so if you got a line, please let us know!!
 
Joined
Jul 16, 2020
Messages
38
Location
San Diego
Any of you guys do a fuel cut like on factory toyota turbo cars? Would be nice to make sure you're not going to blow up your 1fz in case the wastegate doesn't open.
 
Joined
Feb 10, 2017
Messages
1,063
Location
Seattle
Any of you guys do a fuel cut like on factory toyota turbo cars? Would be nice to make sure you're not going to blow up your 1fz in case the wastegate doesn't open.
No fuel cut, but have a gauge that screams at me over 7.5PSI. Pretty quick way to back off.
 
Joined
Oct 9, 2018
Messages
93
Location
Santa Rosa, CA
Well - finally threw my first turbo related CEL. P0172 - System too rich bank 1.

This was after driving up rattlesnake pass outside of SLC. Cleared the CEL and it hasn't come back.
Spent the last week driving from Seattle - Zion (UT) straights through, across UT over the week, then shot back across to Seattle in a day.
On the drive out in high heat had a few odd idle issues. Pulled into a gas station near pendleton OR and the engine stuttered and almost died but keyed off before it could freak out.
Idle is now a bit rough on cold starts. Going to start looking for post turbo leaks, but no evidence of any and a somewhat "new" motor with all new OEM parts.

Anyone else run into this?
No fuel cut, but have a gauge that screams at me over 7.5PSI. Pretty quick way to back off.
I have the same 14 in 1 gauge set to really get pissed at 7.75 PSI. I sometimes bump 7.5 PSI before the wastegate catches up and it was getting annoying to have it yelp at me.
 
Joined
Oct 9, 2018
Messages
93
Location
Santa Rosa, CA
Totally agreed, both units are polycarbonate and won't last long. The right unit is from Home Depot and it's prolly seven years old and been discoloring over time. Now that the turbo puts 200+deg of air temp on top of the engine (confirmed by a thermocouple), I'd be curious how long they both will last. I'd love to find a glass unit to replace them so if you got a line, please let us know!!
Summit and Jegs have a bunch of billet aluminum oil separators that would not have any thermal problems. Steeda makes separator for Mustang Cobra's that have a clear bowl, but it is not glass. At least intended to be under a hood with forced induction.

 
Last edited:

alia176

SILVER Star
Joined
Aug 21, 2003
Messages
12,800
Location
Tijeras, NM
Summit and Jegs have a bunch of billet aluminum oil separators that would not have any thermal problems. Steeda makes separator for Mustang Cobra's that have a clear bowl, but it is not glass. At least intended to be under a hood with forced induction.


Thanks for the info. The item linked above makes no mention of the bowl material and at $75, that little tidbit should've been mentioned IMHO. I've thought about alum bowls but I'm going to keep on the lookout for glass bowls that might simply screw in. I want a visual reference everytime I open the hood and these things are good for that. Sure, some of the fancy units have a sight glass for the alum catch cans but they're also enormously huge for the application. The thought of running more hoses is appealing to me at this time.
 
Joined
Oct 28, 2015
Messages
488
Location
CA
Well - finally threw my first turbo related CEL. P0172 - System too rich bank 1.

This was after driving up rattlesnake pass outside of SLC. Cleared the CEL and it hasn't come back.
Spent the last week driving from Seattle - Zion (UT) straights through, across UT over the week, then shot back across to Seattle in a day.
On the drive out in high heat had a few odd idle issues. Pulled into a gas station near pendleton OR and the engine stuttered and almost died but keyed off before it could freak out.
Idle is now a bit rough on cold starts. Going to start looking for post turbo leaks, but no evidence of any and a somewhat "new" motor with all new OEM parts.

Anyone else run into this?

No I have not. Are you running an AFR? Are you sure too Rich? What's the AFR at under heavy skinny?

Check your MAF sensor and clean it and maybe check the intake boot isn't cracked either. You could either have a vac leak somewhere or not getting enough fuel pressure.

1. Vac leaks
2. Fuel (check lines, pump, filter, injector clogged, injector orings)
* for both vac and fuel. I like to do the brake clean/carb clean method and spray everywhere with the engine running to see if idle surge.

3. check O2 sensor is still in spec. FSM shows how to measure it. If you got an old O2. Replace them with new ones. Amazon has them for a decent price.
 
Joined
Oct 9, 2018
Messages
93
Location
Santa Rosa, CA
How and when the hell are you guys hitting 7.5psi and in what gear? :bang:
During hard acceleration, like getting on the freeway, the boost ramps up and goes over 7 PSI until the wastegate can catch up and drop it back down. It is a very short period of time, but I can see it on the 14 in 1. This assumes that the 14 in 1 pressure sensor is reading correctly....

It is a transient reading, not steady state.
 
Joined
Oct 28, 2015
Messages
488
Location
CA
During hard acceleration, like getting on the freeway, the boost ramps up and goes over 7 PSI until the wastegate can catch up and drop it back down. It is a very short period of time, but I can see it on the 14 in 1. This assumes that the 14 in 1 pressure sensor is reading correctly....

It is a transient reading, not steady state.
I've never seen more than 6.2psi and that was one single time. I'm getting 5.5-5.6 psi boost on avg. My AFR's are about 10 at max boost. 14 AFR idle. 12-13 AFR cruising with light throttle.
 
Joined
Oct 9, 2018
Messages
93
Location
Santa Rosa, CA
I've never seen more than 6.2psi and that was one single time. I'm getting 5.5-5.6 psi boost on avg. My AFR's are about 10 at max boost. 14 AFR idle. 12-13 AFR cruising with light throttle.
A few thoughts:

Boost gauge is reading low.
Leak on the boost side of the turbo at higher pressures.
Wastegate has wrong spring pack and is limiting boost.

Others?

Mike
 
Joined
Feb 10, 2017
Messages
1,063
Location
Seattle
No I have not. Are you running an AFR? Are you sure too Rich? What's the AFR at under heavy skinny?

Check your MAF sensor and clean it and maybe check the intake boot isn't cracked either. You could either have a vac leak somewhere or not getting enough fuel pressure.

1. Vac leaks
2. Fuel (check lines, pump, filter, injector clogged, injector orings)
* for both vac and fuel. I like to do the brake clean/carb clean method and spray everywhere with the engine running to see if idle surge.

3. check O2 sensor is still in spec. FSM shows how to measure it. If you got an old O2. Replace them with new ones. Amazon has them for a decent price.

I'll check the maf. at one point driving into a headwind the wideband was reading a steady 12 at 2-3 constant PSI holding 70mph.
Fueling i'll check out for sure. Thinking i'm going to pull the intake manifold and put new gaskets in (though they're not old, i did have to remove/reinstall at one point and reused the just crushed gasket). At the same time will probably send out injectors for servicing. They have 20k old orings on em.
Front O2 was replaced at time of engine rebuild, 20k ago.
will give the carb cleaner test a shot.

To me it seems like it'd have to be post turbo pre cylinder positive pressure leak or a stuck injector dumping fuel.
It popped once and then didn't come back for the rest of the drive across oregon.

How and when the hell are you guys hitting 7.5psi and in what gear? :bang:

I hit 8psi and held it for a few seconds coming back from Utah. I had recalibrated the boost gauge for that elevation as well. I was LOADED, O/D off, floored holding 75 up a pass. I usually only see 5.3-6.5 on average. Sometimes not even that. This is on true 35x12's and stock 4.10s.
 
Joined
Oct 28, 2015
Messages
488
Location
CA
A few thoughts:

Boost gauge is reading low.
Leak on the boost side of the turbo at higher pressures.
Wastegate has wrong spring pack and is limiting boost.

Others?

Mike
I'm running 2 boost gauges. OEM TRD (aka autometer manual gauge) and a PLX digital mutli gauge. I doubt it's the gauges leaking as there's been a few members also with my same boost readings. Like I've said in other messages and same with Scott. Boost readings will vary with age of cats. I'm using factory 180k cats and that could be my restriction for slight loss of boost. I'm not at the point I want to get rid of my factory cats and get Magnaflows yet.

I have zero leaks and using the correct spring pack. I've done an extensive writeup and build thread on my truck. Everything except for the Cats are brand new and/or rebuilt.
 
Joined
Oct 9, 2018
Messages
93
Location
Santa Rosa, CA
I'm running 2 boost gauges. OEM TRD (aka autometer manual gauge) and a PLX digital mutli gauge. I doubt it's the gauges leaking as there's been a few members also with my same boost readings. Like I've said in other messages and same with Scott. Boost readings will vary with age of cats. I'm using factory 180k cats and that could be my restriction for slight loss of boost. I'm not at the point I want to get rid of my factory cats and get Magnaflows yet.

I have zero leaks and using the correct spring pack. I've done an extensive writeup and build thread on my truck. Everything except for the Cats are brand new and/or rebuilt.
I am using 172k stock cats with Flowmaster 70 series. When I had the exhaust redone during the build, I pulled the cats and looked them over. No flow restrictions in them so I had the reinstalled by the exhaust shop, but had them moved up tighter into the space next to the frame rail.
 

alia176

SILVER Star
Joined
Aug 21, 2003
Messages
12,800
Location
Tijeras, NM
I'm not getting 5psi and the only thing that's restrictive in my exh system could be the Bosal muffler, which is less than ten years old. Other than that, the single high flow magnaflow cat is the same age, mandrel bend 2.5" piping up and over frame rail and all that.

I checked my springs and they're in fact the correct color combo green+red.

Boost leak could be possible but not in the elbow feeding the TBI and I'm not sure where else to check.

Clue:
I did get a P0171 System too Lean (Bank 1). I'm running the OEM MAF and removed the LT MAF GEN1 few weeks ago when I got the same code.

I'll try another gauge to make sure I can rule out the analog gauge using teflon tubing.

As of now, I'm not pulling hills in the higher elevations in a satisfactory matter but I do scoot along nicely otherwise. Acceleration from a red light is good as she comes close to red line if I keep my foot in it. Coming out of Moab last week, I was hitting maybe 3.5 psi climbing the hill.

The filter minder gauge on the OEM filter canister is pegged so I know she's sucking like a mofo :hillbilly:. Before the turbo, the filter minder worked normally.

1604419683961.png
 
Joined
Oct 9, 2018
Messages
93
Location
Santa Rosa, CA
I'm not getting 5psi and the only thing that's restrictive in my exh system could be the Bosal muffler, which is less than ten years old. Other than that, the single high flow magnaflow cat is the same age, mandrel bend 2.5" piping up and over frame rail and all that.

I checked my springs and they're in fact the correct color combo green+red.

Boost leak could be possible but not in the elbow feeding the TBI and I'm not sure where else to check.

Clue:
I did get a P0171 System too Lean (Bank 1). I'm running the OEM MAF and removed the LT MAF GEN1 few weeks ago when I got the same code.

I'll try another gauge to make sure I can rule out the analog gauge using teflon tubing.

As of now, I'm not pulling hills in the higher elevations in a satisfactory matter but I do scoot along nicely otherwise. Acceleration from a red light is good as she comes close to red line if I keep my foot in it. Coming out of Moab last week, I was hitting maybe 3.5 psi climbing the hill.

The filter minder gauge on the OEM filter canister is pegged so I know she's sucking like a mofo :hillbilly:. Before the turbo, the filter minder worked normally.

View attachment 2485195
It seems that several owners of this kit are not seeing the 7 PSI boost that myself and others are. I like to keep things simple when troubleshooting, leaving the really complex failure modes until the simple stuff is ruled out.

The simplest explanation is that the boost gauge is reading incorrectly. I bought a cheep manual gauge two weeks ago to verify the boost on my rig, and it correlates to what the 14 in one gauge is telling me. 7+ PSI max (saw 7.6 PSI under full acceleration over the weekend, for just a second)

The next simple explanation is a boost leak. The compressor housing to the center housing is a possible leak path. There are only four connections after the turbo before the TB. Then you have the TB gasket to the upper intake, then the upper intake to the lower intake, then the lower intake to the head. There are numerous ports in those assemblies to look at, including the EGR, brake booster (should have a check valve from kit), and the PCV valve . The PCV should act like a check valve under boost. It could possibly be leaking at higher boost levels and dumping the boost into the valve cover? Then it flows back to the intake side of the turbo?

(Side question, with a large boost leak, isn't the turbo being turned at higher RPM's due to the wastegate not opening, as it is not seeing a pressure signal to open? Is over speeding the turbo a risk with a boost leak?)

Another simple explanation is that the wastegate is opening too soon. You verified you have the correct springs. The next step would be to pressurize the wastegate manually and verify that it is opening at the correct pressure. Probably not likely that the correct springs are out of spec, but, maybe?

On the exhaust side of the turbo, as you looked into, a restriction could be putting to much backpressure on the turbo, causing lower flow, lower turbo RPM's and less boost. You could also have a large exhaust leak, but, I think you would notice that.

Hope this helps,

Mike
 

alia176

SILVER Star
Joined
Aug 21, 2003
Messages
12,800
Location
Tijeras, NM
Thanks Mike, good writeup.

I was thinking of getting a Blue spring from eBay and combine that with the Green spring to see if I get past 5psi before I start looking for leaks and such. This will be a TEMP solution as I don't want to lean out the engine due to lack of fueling. Just a thought for now...
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top Bottom