Winch - Front or Rear?

[RiverRatMatt]

My truck is coming along nicely.. I'll probably put a thread up here about my build in the near future. It'll be slow because I'm poor, but I think it will be unique.

I do have a question about winches, however. I may be getting a new rear bumper, something better than factory; and possibly one that can mount a winch.

Since I have yet to find a front bumper design that I like, and I don't quite have an excuse to replace the front, a rear winch may be my only option for a while.

So, functionally, what are the pros/cons to having a rear winch? Obviously a front winch would be better since you'd be pulling yourself forward over obstacles if you needed to, but I don't think a rear winch is without merit.

Thoughts and experience?

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

Make a removable front winch and provide a hook up to the rear. I used this setup on a older Land Cruiser that we did a lot of solo travel with and it provided a good security feel. Most of the time you are in trouble solo you want to go back not forward has been my experience.

 

[RiverRatMatt]

The problem is I'm keeping the stock bumper for a while, so no mounting point.

 

[Mark W]

I am not a fan of winched intended to be moved from one end of the rig to the other.

The mounting is usually less than ideal in terms of strength... they stick out too far when they are mounted... they are a big chunk of machinery to store in the rig if you go that route.

They are a PITA to lug out and mount, or move end to end when you are stuck in deep muck.

Ideally a winch on each end of the rig is the way to go. Not many of us have that.

If the goal is recovery from a "stuck", then winch in the rear is gonna be advantageous more often. Usually a couple of feet back has you free... and you might have a LONG way to go forward. If the goal is to get through to the other side.... well, a winch on the front is gonna work better. (Of course a lot of times you can take another run at it when you have to back out.)

No way to guess at every situation that might see you stuck though.

A front mount usually provides easier access to the winch to deal with cable snarls or any other issues that call for attention to the winch itself. But this is because most people mount it under the rig. if you mount is in/on the rear bumper you might be able to alleviate this.

Go ahead and put a winch on the tail and later on when you find the bumper you want up front, put one there too.

Mark...

 

[rusty_tlc]

Most of the times my winch has seen duty it has been pulling somebody else either over and obstacle or pulling them out of a stuck. I'm often the only one in the group that has a winch so we plan to either have me ahead of the rig likely to get stuck or send a victim through an untested tough spot ahead of me so I can retrieve them if they don't make it.

I guess what I'm saying is that I view a winch as tool that is primarily used to rescue others rather than as a self recovery tool. As such it is far more useful in the front.

You might also consider a pulley system that allows the winch to be used in both directions. IIRC there was a Mud guy from NZ that had that kind of setup.

 

[RiverRatMatt]

I think I'll go with what Mark suggests. A rear winch is better than none, and, like he says, sometimes what you need is a better line or a run at it.

On a Pickup, you could make an irregular tripod with a pully on top, put that in the bed, then run the line over the top of your truck to pull yourself forward. Lots of work and could damage your rig though.

I'll definitely put a winch on the front as well, but for now a rear winch would be good.

 

[SHREDwagon]

I'm looking at getting a 3 Ton More Power Puller for rear and side pulls if needed:
The Wyeth-Scott Co. - portable winches | cable puller | come along winches

More versatile, light (21 lbs with synthetic line), relatively cheap (300 bones), made in USA and gets good reviews. You could always add the electric winch later when you find the right bumper. I like the idea of having non-electric back-up as well.... Murpys Law and all....

 

[Bogo]

You might also consider a pulley system that allows the winch to be used in both directions. IIRC there was a Mud guy from NZ that had that kind of setup.

On a Pickup, you could make an irregular tripod with a pully on top, put that in the bed, then run the line over the top of your truck to pull yourself forward. Lots of work and could damage your rig though. .

I'd run a pulley system under the truck, and leave a leader in place so it is easy to pull the cable through the cable path.

One of the ideas I had thought of was to place the winch in the spare tire location mounted to the frame rail with the drum axis lengthwise along the length of the truck rather than side to side. A pair of fixed pulleys would route the line forward or aft. Where needed the route of the cable would be changed at roller fairleads. The route to the rear bumper only required the fairlead at the rear bumper. For the front, 4 were required. I figured I needed the roller fairleads because of the leader line used to pull it quickly through when changing from rear use to front use.

 

[crushers]

in 30 years i have yet to come across a situation where i felt that if i had a rear mount winch it would have saved my ass.
a front mount winch yes, definately, and one that WORKS (8274) not those POS low profile toys.

what i have found is without a rear winch i am more cautious about what i will drive into if i am wheeling by myself. i will get out, take a look, poke a stick, look for winch attachment anchor points, make sure my winch is still working before proceeding.

but

i am not knocking those that do run a rear mount winch, each to their own. i would NEVER put my life in the hands of a low profile winch and that is about all you can run in the back of a vehicle ... unless you want to go to the bother of installing a PTO driven rear winch or maybe a hydraulic winch out back.

 

[RiverRatMatt]

Running cable to the front and having it fixed there makes a lot of sense, I was wondering how the hell I'd access it if I were stuck

What about heat buildup if you mount it in the spare tire area? If you're dug in to your frame, its not getting a lot of air circulation (if any)?

The only thing keeping me from getting a manual winch like what SHREDwagon suggested is my Hi-Lift, since it can perform the same function, just requires a couple straps/chains. Though I guess a manual one would be easier to use.

 

[RiverRatMatt]

i am not knocking those that do run a rear mount winch, each to their own. i would NEVER put my life in the hands of a low profile winch and that is about all you can run in the back of a vehicle ... unless you want to go to the bother of installing a PTO driven rear winch or maybe a hydraulic winch out back.

How would I go about setting up a hydraulic or PTO winch? I'd have to get a new transmission for PTO wouldn't I? Seriously sucks that American Toyotas don't come with PTO anymore :/

If I did a rear winch, it would be a full sized setup. I'd just need to find a bumper that would work for that.... Which may not exist.

 

[crushers]

custom buddy, it is all custom from here on...

 

[RiverRatMatt]

custom buddy, it is all custom from here on...

$$$ :/

I would honestly give my right nut to work under a guy like you, doing custom work on cruisers and the like.

 

[crushers]

custom is as expensive as you want to make it.
a simple C channel with mounting plates doesn't look bad and works.

or

fancy bending with all the gadgets will cost a fortune...

 

[4xsteve]

I ran across that article about the guy from NZ a LONG time ago and "borrowed" his idea. Works great! I've got an M8000 mounted under the bed of my 84xcab and I can pull front or rear at any time - wire comes out both ends for easy access. You can see a little of what I did on my ROTM thread here: https://forum.ih8mud.com/79-95-toyota-truck-tech/296050-rotm-4xsteves-84-mini.html

 

[kidglove13]

What if you cannot get at your winch when you are stuck then you are screwed.
I am no winch expert but buring your winch underneath your truck sounds like a bad idea
A winch is something that needs to be readily accessable I would think
Who wants to mess around under their rig, thats if you can get to it.

 

[Mark W]

For my uses, I tend to agree with the Kid here.

When I head out for a couple of days, or weeks in the back country, I know that everything under the rig is gonna be blasted with sand and gravel, cakes in mud, drug through brush and generally abused. Now, my rigs tend to be tall enough to work under pretty easily when parked at the shop. But if I am frame down in a bog... which is the most common stuck I am gonna see.... a winch mounted somewhere under the rig would be down in the muck too. And any cable pulley arrangement would be as well.

Even if not worried about being stuck deep, I don't like the idea of having to crawl under the rig to deal with a snarled, or even just messily laid cable. And not being able to keep an eye on the cable/winch as it pulls. I can see an under rig cable/pully system being prone to failure at the worst times.


Even tucking a winch under the tail of my '40 for rear only pulls has me going back and forth as i try to figure out how to keep it accessible without mounting it on the bumper instead of behind it.

Would work well for some. But I expect that it is better used by guys who tend to get crossed up in rocks rather than mired in bogs.


Mark...

 

[kidglove13]

I spend most of my time in the rocks and I would not want a winch under my rig
Maybe for expedition, but still pullies and stuff makes for to many potential failure points
I like to keep it simple as possible

 

[crushers]

exactly, i want easy access to the winch, the cable and anything else that could have an issue.

plus, with the winch in the middle (or front with cable to rear) makes me curious as to the stability of the winching process. you will need a fair lead at which ever end you are winching from and with the winch itself in the center will this not end up acting like a clothes line lifting that end up till the cable is straight?
this might work well if you are trying to winch up over a log or a bank (maybe) but i can picture the winching end of the vehicle becoming unstable as the rear might lift ... of course maybe i am over thinking this??

i have never liked the "winch in the middle" idea, i can also picture the cable tangling up and how do you get under there to fix the issue if you are in water or mud or ... up to the frame (as Mark pointed out)? how do you keep an eye on the motor for overheating?

personally, i will pass on this idea.

 

[4xsteve]

What if you cannot get at your winch when you are stuck then you are screwed.
I am no winch expert but buring your winch underneath your truck sounds like a bad idea
A winch is something that needs to be readily accessable I would think
Who wants to mess around under their rig, thats if you can get to it.

Well, the way I see it is that you shouldn't need to get to the winch itself anyway. You should only really need to get to the cable and the controller plug. If you're stuck and having to screw with the actual winch itself, time to get a more reliable winch or have a buddy pull ya out. Unless you're simply referring to the freespool lever; in which case, mine is accessible from above the bumper but that's still not something that's a "must have". Freespool just makes things quicker and easier but not a necessity IMO. And if you're referring to the cable, it's reachable on the outside of the rear bumper and just under the front bumper. And last but not least, just to cover all areas, the solenoid pack where the controller plugs in to is inside the bed just inside the tailgate hooked up to a 2nd battery. Does all that make sense?