Winch - Front or Rear?

[PadgettFabrication]

It sounds like a sweet set up.
BTW
If I find I need to winch all day long I probably made bigger judgment errors than the type of winch I selected. ;p

Yeah thats true too, but The ALL DAY LONG phrase was used simply to illustrate the difference between a winch that CAN work all day, and the winches that can work for a few minutes at a time between resting and cool-down periods. Mile-Marker has a comparison video on their site that is a "MUST SEE".

I understand that the OP was not about Electric vs. Hydraulic vs. Engine driven vs. PTO, but I will plug Mile Marker Hydraulic Winches whenever I can.

 

[rusty_tlc]

Yeah thats true too, but The ALL DAY LONG phrase was used simply to illustrate the difference between a winch that CAN work all day, and the winches that can work for a few minutes at a time between resting and cool-down periods. Mile-Marker has a comparison video on their site that is a "MUST SEE".

I understand that the OP was not about Electric vs. Hydraulic vs. Engine driven vs. PTO, but I will plug Mile Marker Hydraulic Winches whenever I can.

I was being facetious.

 

[Mark W]

can you send me a link to this elastic strap you use? i want to give a chunk a try, maybe i have tried the wrong stuff. the sales drone told me "these straps stretch 30% of their length", well after using the rope these things felt like chains.
i might have a different view after trying the ones you use.

I don't have any particular strap that I use Wayne. I am thinking that I could probably find something in bulk with a bit of research, but I was saying that I have not been dissatisfied with the generic recovery straps I have used.


Mark...

 

[crushers]

if that is the case then i can promise you that you will love this rope ...
and if you don't fall in love with it then i guess beer will be on me when i finally get up there.

 

[SNLC]

I could go on and on about the subject of electric vs PTO vs hydraulic....ask Tapage, he got a taste of that in an email from me!! I suppose this thread is about F&R winches though.

There is a great video of a team in the RainForest Challenge who has that f&r reciever mount system. You should watch these guys try and drag that thing through 3ft of mud and then try to hook it up to the bumper which is submerged under at least a foot of slop. Epic fail is all I have to say.

F&R is only really needed imho if you are in some serious mud a lot alone. That or you are racing. Basically it is overkill for 98% of people out there. Are you going to drive through the Amazon in Brazil? Are you going to drive across Maylasia in the rainy season? If you say yes to questions like that then I suggest a PTO driven hydraulic system running hydraulic winches f&r!

You guys are aware right that you can pull your truck backwards with a front mount winch? The right pulley set up is all you need to do it.

A center mount is really only needed if you race, again imho. Look at the Ibex and the system that was designed for that truck. It is super sweet but who really needs that beside people who compete?

The Volvo C303/6 uses a front mount with a system that allows you to winch out the back too. It is very simply really, check it out for yourself.

Oh and on an expedition truck....front mount electric is all you should ever need. At least for 90+% of all expedition trucks out there anyways. A high rise can get you out of 95% of all stucks in light to medium wheeling. It is simple, jack up the truck, build a road under it and drive out. Heck man, if most people just ran the right tire pressure off-road a lot less people would get stuck!

There is a thread on ExPo where a couple drive a TLC through the Congo. They had no winch and I don't think they aired down their tires even once! They spend a large majority of their time using a high rise to get the truck unstuck. All the while being hassled and mocked by the locals not to mention locals won't raise a finger unless they get paid for it. And the couple nearly kill the truck because of lack of experience in recovery. It is amazing the TLC even made it out in one piece, well it is broken even if still in one piece when it does make it out of the Congo!! Check it out, for you guys with experience winching it is an entertaining read! My point in mentioning it is....you don't have to know how to drive off-road, you don't need a winch and you don't have to have a clue about recovery to drive through the worst countries on the planet! And if driving through the Congo is not an expedition, I don't know what is! Note: I am not expressing any opinions about that expedition, simply pointing out facts.

my 2 cents and you know what they say about opinions!

 

[RiverRatMatt]

I'm not big on advocating luck over experience...

 

[Mark W]

I am gonna have to disagree with you on one point here. I have yet to see a setup that will cleanly let you exert full power to pull backwards with a front mounted winch (without a lot of undue stress on the cable, the winch, or something else in the system) and let you do it with reasonable effort when the rig is deep in the muck.

Not counting systems built into a rig by the manufacturer. other than looking at them for ideas, these don't mean a whole to those of us building our own stuff.


No argument that you generally do not need to worry much about front and rear winches unless you are out alone a lot. But if you are, or if you are out without another winch equipped rig, they can be exactly what you need.

I have been in situations where having the winch on the front got me where I needed to be... and having one on the back got me out of where I didn't. And I have had days that went to s*** and would not have if I had a winch at the other end of where i did.


Mark...

 

[BC40]

Good information. I didn't read all the posts but one other positive thing about front mount winches is they aren't exposed to as much as a rear mount would be. Road salt, slush, mud, etc all build up and corrode the back of the truck more than the front. Same would hold true with a winch. If you keep on top of testing and servicing your equipment then that isn't a problem, but a front mount with a cover will be a little more forgiving of neglect long term.

 

[Mark W]

Yeah, anything under the rig and further back than the front tires is gonna take a beating on the roads.

You could probably make some sort of spray shield to stop most of the sand and gravel, but water spray and road salt is hard to deal with.

A rear bumper mount (rather than mounting it under the tail of the rig) is a little better, but any unit mounted there will still see more abuse from the road than a front mount will.


Mark...

 

[SNLC]

I'm not big on advocating luck over experience...

How do you get experience? Do you need somebody to hold your hand to get experience? For me tossing myself in the s*** is the best way to get experience. I don't listen to people much, so learn on my own most of the time. It has been working for 38yrs!

Luck is just whatever. If something happens and you get out no probs, sure you can say I got lucky! Otherwise wtf is luck?

 

[SNLC]

I am gonna have to disagree with you on one point here. I have yet to see a setup that will cleanly let you exert full power to pull backwards with a front mounted winch (without a lot of undue stress on the cable, the winch, or something else in the system) and let you do it with reasonable effort when the rig is deep in the muck.

Not counting systems built into a rig by the manufacturer. other than looking at them for ideas, these don't mean a whole to those of us building our own stuff.


No argument that you generally do not need to worry much about front and rear winches unless you are out alone a lot. But if you are, or if you are out without another winch equipped rig, they can be exactly what you need.

I have been in situations where having the winch on the front got me where I needed to be... and having one on the back got me out of where I didn't. And I have had days that went to s*** and would not have if I had a winch at the other end of where i did.


Mark...

I never said full pulling power, just that you can do it. Double or triple line pulls increase power, we all know this right?

The point of mentioning other systems is to give people ideas. That is what building a truck is all about in my book. Look at what others have done be it an individual or a company. Take what works for you and your uses and your truck. Make it better.

 

[Mark W]

Oh yeah. I am always looking and dreaming and pondering. Gotta keep an open mind about any approach... at lest long enough to find the flaws.

Today I was wondering abut the feasibility of mounting a self powered high capacity hyro winch system in the bed of my V8 mini-truck and adding a bit of an exo-cage to run the calbe over the cab if I wanted to pull in that direction, as well as straight out the back... and how to set up drop down legs with spade heads to help anchor it for heavy pulls.


Mark...

 

[RiverRatMatt]

How do you get experience? Do you need somebody to hold your hand to get experience? For me tossing myself in the **** is the best way to get experience. I don't listen to people much, so learn on my own most of the time. It has been working for 38yrs!

Luck is just whatever. If something happens and you get out no probs, sure you can say I got lucky! Otherwise wtf is luck?

If you can find a mentor who has experience that can guide you, then yes, that is very advantageous.

If not, like in my case, you learn yourself. HOWEVER, you don't go out and put yourself into life and death situations right off the bat. You have to walk before you can run; start with small stuff - ventures into nearby wilderness where you can go have fun and learn how to avoid getting stuck, how to get unstuck, what your vehicle is capable of, how to use your equipment, etc. Move up from there, go more and more remote, longer trips.

Hell, practicing with your winches and Hi-Lift in your driveway is a good example of learning what you're doing before you put yourself into a truly bad situation

 

[crushers]

i love learning off someone else's fawkups
but
seldom do i come across someone that fawks up more than i do, so usually someone else gets to learn at my expense.

common sense says, learn to walk before you learn to run. sadly, when i started wheeling i didn't have a wheeling buddy so i did have to learn the hard way
and
a lot of luck did fall my way over the decades cause i am still here, i still have 10 fingers, 10 toes and no major damage. looking back there were times when, if something went just a bit more sideways, i wouldn't be here at all.
-blowing a brake line a couple truck lengths from the top of a couple hundred foot, very steep, hill climb with a set of stairs before i could make the top. shut it down in gear, crawled under with a pair of vice grips and pinched the line off so i would have 3 wheel brakes, climbed back in and drove over the top. shut it down with my foot quivering. carried on wheeling for the rest of the day.
-the steep hill was too muddy for traction so i hit the grass along the side. a buddy was riding with me. we were progressing very well till the next rain was a downpour and the grass and dirt underneath became too wet and we lost traction. an almost invisible slide of the truck downhill and i took a look behind me. about 3 truck lengths and we were over the edge to a long verticle drop cliff. i had the older Bellview winch with no remote so my buddy had to grab the winch cable and climb up the steep wet hill to the nearest tree, wrap it around and run/slide back down to the winch, engage and pull the truck up. he slipped and slided with 1 step back for every 2 steps up and it was a LONG climb. he got it around the tree and slid back down, engaged the winch and hit the button. the winch came in just as the back went over the edge. we winched the truck up, tied it to the tree and i sat there shaking. we waited till the rain passed and the sun came back out then finished the cutline on the map.

i could tell many stories of close calls but, yes, it is much safer to learn off someone else
and
wheeling by yourself can be life threatening.

but

you do have to give it a try or you never learn to think things through and take precautions when you see a similar situation coming up that looks so simple, so safe with such a terrible consquence if the manouver goes sideways.

 

[SNLC]

If you can find a mentor who has experience that can guide you, then yes, that is very advantageous.

If not, like in my case, you learn yourself. HOWEVER, you don't go out and put yourself into life and death situations right off the bat. You have to walk before you can run; start with small stuff - ventures into nearby wilderness where you can go have fun and learn how to avoid getting stuck, how to get unstuck, what your vehicle is capable of, how to use your equipment, etc. Move up from there, go more and more remote, longer trips.

Hell, practicing with your winches and Hi-Lift in your driveway is a good example of learning what you're doing before you put yourself into a truly bad situation

Totally agree with you.

 

[SNLC]

i love learning off someone else's fawkups
but
seldom do i come across someone that fawks up more than i do, so usually someone else gets to learn at my expense.

common sense says, learn to walk before you learn to run. sadly, when i started wheeling i didn't have a wheeling buddy so i did have to learn the hard way

i could tell many stories of close calls but, yes, it is much safer to learn off someone else
and
wheeling by yourself can be life threatening.

but

you do have to give it a try or you never learn to think things through and take precautions when you see a similar situation coming up that looks so simple, so safe with such a terrible consquence if the manouver goes sideways.

also completely agree

 

[rusty_tlc]

How do you get experience? Do you need somebody to hold your hand to get experience? For me tossing myself in the s*** is the best way to get experience. I don't listen to people much, so learn on my own most of the time. It has been working for 38yrs!

Luck is just whatever. If something happens and you get out no probs, sure you can say I got lucky! Otherwise wtf is luck?

Luck is when preparation meets opportunity.

Do you need somebody to hold your hand? Maybe not. Does it help to travel with others that have experience and pay attention to what they do? Definitely. Does it help to research and read about areas that are of interest or that may be useful to you? Again I would say definitely.

If you are reading this thread you have at least some interest in the exchange of experience and ideas. Which I would place in the category of preparation.

Tossing yourself into something is fine if it happens to be something like building model airplanes or cooking. Stuff like rock climbing and winching require preparation or you risk injury or worse, ie "bad" luck.

 

[rusty_tlc]

Oh yeah. I am always looking and dreaming and pondering. Gotta keep an open mind about any approach... at lest long enough to find the flaws.

Today I was wondering abut the feasibility of mounting a self powered high capacity hyro winch system in the bed of my V8 mini-truck and adding a bit of an exo-cage to run the calbe over the cab if I wanted to pull in that direction, as well as straight out the back... and how to set up drop down legs with spade heads to help anchor it for heavy pulls.


Mark...

Sounds like a Mini Wrecker.
One time I buried a 3/4 ton extended cab long bed GMC to the frame out near Belmont Mine. It was such a bad stuck I had to get a tow truck from Ely to pull me out. The wrecker was an old Dodge Power Wagon and the driver used a cool trick. He had a set of plate steel wheel chocks with heavy chains on them. He chocked the rear wheels and ran the chains to the rear bumper. When he winched the whole front of his truck would raise up then he would stop winching and let the weight of the truck slowly falling back down pull my truck forward. After doing this a couple of times the suction between my truck and the mud broke, then he could pull me out.

 

[Mark W]

I have seen that "lift the front end" trick too. Cool to watch!

The idea I am chewing for the mini actually arose from your reminding me about the donkey engine concept. I was considering how to put one together with stuff we have on hand and then thinking abpout transporting/moving it, loading/offloading it and stuff like that.

Which led me to ponder the idea of semi dedicating the mini as a mobile donkey.


Mark...

 

[crushers]

so...
you could install a Donkey winch into the back of the mini.
part the mini over the top of the hill well anchored
run the cable or roape through a pulley at the top of the hill
down to the rig below
then winch it up over the pulley to solid ground

and repeat.

ooooh, i like the idea.