Has anyone found an alternative to the very soft (and rather long in travel) brake pedal on the 200 Series 'cruisers? My 2017 is very soft, as was my 2010... The Toyota service department says its normal for this model vehicle, due to the "luxury feel" the engineers were after. Personally, I'd rather have a more firm, responsive brake any day. Does anyone know if the Toyota Tundra pick-ups have the same pedal, or if there is a solution - e.g. after-market rotors and pads? With the electronic nannies on the LC brakes, I doubt changing the master cylinder to the model used on the full sized trucks would be possible.
Where'd they hide the brakes on this vehicle?
- Thread starter LCLXman
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I ended up installing Stop Tech / Centric unidirectional drilled and slotted rotors and pads about 6 months ago...
They made a major difference in feel, especially in ice / sleet / snotty snow. They're listed under their "fleet" products. Ordered them online.
Feel with a 200 though is different than on my 100. 200 looks not only at how much foot pressure is on the brake pedal, but also how fast the pedal was actuated. Both factors control what your feel. I prefer the feel of the 100, but I have no issues adapting back and forth between the 2 trucks.
hth
Steve
They made a major difference in feel, especially in ice / sleet / snotty snow. They're listed under their "fleet" products. Ordered them online.
Feel with a 200 though is different than on my 100. 200 looks not only at how much foot pressure is on the brake pedal, but also how fast the pedal was actuated. Both factors control what your feel. I prefer the feel of the 100, but I have no issues adapting back and forth between the 2 trucks.
hth
Steve
I put these Power Stop rotors & pads on the front of our 2013 in April -
... and honestly, I think the brakes feel about the same. These trucks definitely have a mushy and over-assisted pedal. I think the next step to increasing pedal firmness would be braided stainless steel lines out to the calipers and flushing and replacing with a serious fluid like Motul RBF 600. These will likely be the next changes I'll make.
... and honestly, I think the brakes feel about the same. These trucks definitely have a mushy and over-assisted pedal. I think the next step to increasing pedal firmness would be braided stainless steel lines out to the calipers and flushing and replacing with a serious fluid like Motul RBF 600. These will likely be the next changes I'll make.
I recently switched my flexible brake lines to extended length braided SS lines (also did a fluid flush) and did notice an improvement. It's nothing like my X5 was, though!
@NLScooby: We had an X5M that drove like a tall sports car, so I can completely agree with you there.
Can you share a link to the extended length braided SS lines you installed?
Can you share a link to the extended length braided SS lines you installed?
Yeah this is what I was going to suggest, start w/ SS brake lines ($185) before moving to new rotors. See what you think and go from there. You'll have immediate gratification if you work through Crown Performance, they have supplied a few sets now. Folks have tried other avenues w/ hit or miss success but I'm there are other options.
Edit: no link, it's a custom order. Call and ask for John Garate.
I have to agree that the pedal is too soft for my liking, and there's too much travel to get them to start binding. I put a set of Hawk "SuperDuty" class pads on the front of my pickup last Fall and it made a huge improvement, so I might try a set of these in the front first since it's an easy swap.
Amazon.com: Hawk Performance HB589P.704 SuperDuty Brake Pad: Automotive
Amazon.com: Hawk Performance HB589P.704 SuperDuty Brake Pad: Automotive
There was a brake change in '16, so the '16 and '17 200s have different brakes from the earlier models. I drive a '14 and a '17. The '17 brakes are more aggressive in pedal feel versus the '14. The brakes of either vehicle don't bother me.
The LC uses a hydraulic booster that is quite different than the old school vacuum booster that sees duty on the Tundra. The Tundra does have much better pedal feel, IME.
Pads will help with the feel.
Pads will help with the feel.
I did Stainless Steel lines first and I didn't feel any improvement. Then I changed all rotors and pads to stock rotors and TRD pads and noticed a marginal 5-10% improvement. I wish I had found a better aftermarket rotor or the kit from the armored LC as I am used to Brembo AMG brakes.
@Mogwai answered your question. @Atwalz and he were the Trail Blazers here- I followed their lead but did tailor my lengths just a bit based on their feedback. If my memory serves me correctly, I went 2" over stock in front and 3" over in back. I can check for you to confirm.
I drove that X5 cross country and felt totally refreshed in those M sport seats! I miss those.....
Here are 3 of the recent 200 brake threads on MUD.
New Brake Disappointment
STOP, collaborate and listen.....Tundra brake swap
2016 Brake VS Pre 2016 Brake
New Brake Disappointment
STOP, collaborate and listen.....Tundra brake swap
2016 Brake VS Pre 2016 Brake
Agree. Just bedded some new TRD pads on new OEM rotors last weekend. Pedal is still soft, but pads bite very quickly.
I do believe the brake feel is by design. The intent for the LC is off-road usage. Which means traction limited environments. In this context, it's good to have brakes that aren't grabby and that are more modulated by travel. If the brakes were grabby, it would more easily break traction (hence control) in slippery environments. Also, a driver being jarred around off road would apply the brake in a herky jerky fashion if it were overly pressure sensitive.
While I did notice this brake feel difference when I first got the car, I don't find it offensive or lacking. The brakes are strong with good bite when needed (as it is brake by wire and senses quick application). As it is brake-by-wire, they could have dialed in any feel. I trust Toyota's design judgement in this case.
I alternate daily between my LX570 and Porsche 911 Turbo, which has arguably some of the best brakes in the business. Though I'd say it's best in the context of tarmac only because huge initial bite (when warm) doesn't risk breaking traction for its use case, and modulation by pressure with very little travel works well for it.
You'd think I would have a problem alternating between these two extremes. I don't at all. When it came time to do a brake job for the LX, stock is what I refreshed it with. As much as I like sporty brakes - for my sports cars, I find OEMs walk a better balance between braking performance qualities for street cars. Performance brakes come with compromises too, such as brake dust, squeal, poor wet and cold friction, hard on rotors, poor wear, etc.
Another consideration is ATRAC, ABS, and EBD. It is very likely these capabilities are finely calibrated for the stock brake hardware. Better "feeling" brakes may just result in worse brake performance when used by those systems.
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I had a someone pull out in front of me recently. I saw what was going to happen and hit the brakes hard, the seat belt retractor motor pulled me back into the seat, anti locks kicked in (A/T tires), the cruiser stopped before impact at her passenger door . My speed was max 50mph, most likely 45mph.
I am not comparing this brake system to any other but it worked well in this time of need.
2011, 39k, OEM brakes still, reading and learning. Thank you
I am not comparing this brake system to any other but it worked well in this time of need.
2011, 39k, OEM brakes still, reading and learning. Thank you
Another consideration is how much weight you've added to the vehicle, or whether you're driving a stock vehicle. Might get to a point in weight where no combination of pad/rotor/brake lines will be a big upgrade, meaning you might only barely notice and it could be more due to all the added weight than the components themselves. Or you have to "upgrade" more components to get the improvements you're looking for. Also bleed the brake lines before making any change to see if that helps.
And I don't personally equate more initial bite to better overall "feel" - before I installed the SS-lines there was a portion of the braking cycle that felt softer than the rest. Adding the SS lines for me took this away, it's now a smooth and firm stop from beginning to end and seems even along the way, very ample for normal/non-loaded driving. But loaded up... I often think what it would be like to run 20" wheels and big brembos along with 35s
And I don't personally equate more initial bite to better overall "feel" - before I installed the SS-lines there was a portion of the braking cycle that felt softer than the rest. Adding the SS lines for me took this away, it's now a smooth and firm stop from beginning to end and seems even along the way, very ample for normal/non-loaded driving. But loaded up... I often think what it would be like to run 20" wheels and big brembos along with 35s
I don't want touchy brakes on a 4x4...
In my experience, the brakes are plenty strong. -They just require more foot pressure. As others have mentioned--if you ever hit them hard enough for the anti-lock and seatbelt tightener to come on...you'll stop MUCH faster than is comfortable.
In my thinking, these brakes are actually helpful in difficult, technical terrain, where you are being bumped, jostled, and bounced around. In those settings, I really don't want to have a touchy brake pedal. If it were touchy, then it would be tricky not to accidentally brake too hard when navigating major obstacles where you're lurched forward, back, etc.
I suspect that the people least comfortable with the LC brakes are those who routinely get out of other vehicles and into their cruiser. For those of us who DD their cruisers, the brakes are not something I ever think about any more. But when I hop in a rental car...I almost always brake WAY too hard at the beginning...because I'm used to the LC's very "intentional" brakes.
In my experience, the brakes are plenty strong. -They just require more foot pressure. As others have mentioned--if you ever hit them hard enough for the anti-lock and seatbelt tightener to come on...you'll stop MUCH faster than is comfortable.
In my thinking, these brakes are actually helpful in difficult, technical terrain, where you are being bumped, jostled, and bounced around. In those settings, I really don't want to have a touchy brake pedal. If it were touchy, then it would be tricky not to accidentally brake too hard when navigating major obstacles where you're lurched forward, back, etc.
I suspect that the people least comfortable with the LC brakes are those who routinely get out of other vehicles and into their cruiser. For those of us who DD their cruisers, the brakes are not something I ever think about any more. But when I hop in a rental car...I almost always brake WAY too hard at the beginning...because I'm used to the LC's very "intentional" brakes.
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