New Brake Disappointment (1 Viewer)

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Reckless

Reckless

Joined
May 31, 2013
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So I changed the rotors and brake pads front and rear. I used stock rotors and TRD pads (front and rear). I also changed the brake lines to stainless steel braided lines. The pads were making intermittent noises for first week but have finally stopped now.

Overall, I wish I had gone with an aftermarket rotor. Braking seems marginally better but not a day and night difference. My situation is probably made worse by the bigger aftermarket tire (285/70/17).

I am used to being able to stop on a dime with my AMG/Brembo brakes.
 
Last edited:
Reckless said:
So, I changed the rotors and brake pads front and rear. I used stock rotors and TRD pads (front and rear). I also changed the brake lines to stainless steel braided lines. The pads were making intermittent noises for first week but have finally stopped now.

Overall, I wish I had gone with an aftermarket rotor. Braking seems marginally better but not a day and night difference. My situation is probably made worse by the bigger aftermarket tire (285/70/17).

I am used to being able to stop on a dime with my AMG/Brembo brakes.
Click to expand...
That sucks...what did all that OEM stuff cost (parts)? I am trying to figure out cost difference vs. our HP units.
 
I got everything from ToyotaPartsGuru for $425. 4 rotors and 2 sets of TRD pads.
 
What is the price of Terrain Tamers HP rotors and pads ?
 
When you said the pads made noise the first week and then went away.

Did you do the bed in procedure?
 
Taco2Cruiser said:
When you said the pads made noise the first week and then went away.

Did you do the bed in procedure?
Click to expand...

Tell this brake nooooob (me) what the bed in procedure is...
 
What @wardharris said.

A lot of companies have slightly different views but they are generally the same idea. The idea is the pad does not bed in right, you can glaze the pad and it won't have as good result. OEM pads are the best at handling not being bedded in, where more aggressive driving pads need some special attention when new. Not saying this is THE reason for pads not to do much change to overall braking, was just throwing it out there.

From Power Stop:
"5 moderate to aggressive stops from 40 mph down to 10 mph in rapid succession without letting the brakes cool and do not come to a complete stop. If you're forced to stop, either shift into neutral or give room in front so you can allow the vehicle to roll slightly while waiting for the light. The rotors will be very hot and holding down the brake pedal will allow the pad to create an imprint on the rotor. This is where the judder can originate from.
Then do 5 moderate stops from 35 mph to 5 mph in rapid succession without letting the brakes cool. You should expect to smell some resin as the brakes get hot.
After this is complete, drive around for as long as possible without excessively heating the brakes and without coming to a complete stop (Try for about 5 minutes at moderate speed). This is the cooling stage. It allows the heated resin in the brake pads to cool and cure.
After the brakes have cooled to standard operating temperature, you may use the brakes normally."

From EBC:
BEDDING IN NEW EBC PADS AND DISCS
  • Use brakes with minimal pressure for first 100 miles from urban speeds of 30-50 mph only. Brakes will feel very sharp and responsive but this is ONLY the brake in coating working which gives an abnormally high friction level feeling.
  • Drive a further 250 miles using slightly increased brake pressure and load UNLESS in an emergency in which case apply brake as hard as required.
  • Clean wheels off as there will be residue from the brake-in coating after bed in.
  • Look for a full width contact across the pad depth( rotor braking band) from the outer edge of the disc to the inner and if not achieved allow a further 100-200 miles steady driving. You will see a blue-ish band evidencing contact across the rotor face. Until this band goes from the outer to the inner edges of the brake disc/rotor the pads have NOT yet fully seated. When installing new rotors, reduced width banding is quite possible due to various tolerances and slight misalignments in the vehicle chassis and is NOT a warranty defect or a reason to remove and inspect brakes. Many European cars have SINGLE PISTON CALIPERS and these tend to “Flair” open and cause the contact band described above only to be seen at the outer edge of the disc/rotor and work its way inwards taking up to 1000 miles to do so.
  • After full width contact band is attained make a further 10 stops from 60 mph to 10 mph in succession with a deliberate attempt to get the brakes hot. Some smells may occur even slight smoke during this final heat up stage of the pads in early life. Then coast the vehicle for a mile to allow discs to cool. Do not pull up and park vehicle with brake excessively hot. You must try to get the discs down to below 60-80 degrees C temperature before parking the vehicle.
  • When parked let brakes cool to a final cool-to-touch point. Before touching discs splash a few tiny drops of water onto the disc to asses its temperature to avoid burning fingers. If the water spots cause a “hiss” you have parked up too soon and should go out and drive slowly allowing the brakes to cool further.
NEW DISCS TAKE LONGER TO BED IN

  • Fully bedding new pads to decent condition worn discs/rotors may take only 200-300 miles but when new discs are fitted at the same time bed in times to achieve outer to inner edge contact ( full width blue-grey contact band as mentioned under point 4 above ) can be as long as 800-1000 miles due to extra components needed to be aligned to the vehicle. To Short cut this you can ( and EBC recommend should) have EVEN NEW DISCS Pro Cut Lathe aligned to your vehicle. This process removes only microns of new disc material and shortens bed in time by 75% of the time it COULD take giving you better brakes faster and avoiding hot spotting and pad glazing.
 
Thanks, Taco!
 
Taco2Cruiser said:
What @wardharris said.

A lot of companies have slightly different views but they are generally the same idea. The idea is the pad does not bed in right, you can glaze the pad and it won't have as good result. OEM pads are the best at handling not being bedded in, where more aggressive driving pads need some special attention when new. Not saying this is THE reason for pads not to do much change to overall braking, was just throwing it out there.

From Power Stop:
"5 moderate to aggressive stops from 40 mph down to 10 mph in rapid succession without letting the brakes cool and do not come to a complete stop. If you're forced to stop, either shift into neutral or give room in front so you can allow the vehicle to roll slightly while waiting for the light. The rotors will be very hot and holding down the brake pedal will allow the pad to create an imprint on the rotor. This is where the judder can originate from.
Then do 5 moderate stops from 35 mph to 5 mph in rapid succession without letting the brakes cool. You should expect to smell some resin as the brakes get hot.
After this is complete, drive around for as long as possible without excessively heating the brakes and without coming to a complete stop (Try for about 5 minutes at moderate speed). This is the cooling stage. It allows the heated resin in the brake pads to cool and cure.
After the brakes have cooled to standard operating temperature, you may use the brakes normally."

From EBC:
BEDDING IN NEW EBC PADS AND DISCS
  • Use brakes with minimal pressure for first 100 miles from urban speeds of 30-50 mph only. Brakes will feel very sharp and responsive but this is ONLY the brake in coating working which gives an abnormally high friction level feeling.
  • Drive a further 250 miles using slightly increased brake pressure and load UNLESS in an emergency in which case apply brake as hard as required.
  • Clean wheels off as there will be residue from the brake-in coating after bed in.
  • Look for a full width contact across the pad depth( rotor braking band) from the outer edge of the disc to the inner and if not achieved allow a further 100-200 miles steady driving. You will see a blue-ish band evidencing contact across the rotor face. Until this band goes from the outer to the inner edges of the brake disc/rotor the pads have NOT yet fully seated. When installing new rotors, reduced width banding is quite possible due to various tolerances and slight misalignments in the vehicle chassis and is NOT a warranty defect or a reason to remove and inspect brakes. Many European cars have SINGLE PISTON CALIPERS and these tend to “Flair” open and cause the contact band described above only to be seen at the outer edge of the disc/rotor and work its way inwards taking up to 1000 miles to do so.
  • After full width contact band is attained make a further 10 stops from 60 mph to 10 mph in succession with a deliberate attempt to get the brakes hot. Some smells may occur even slight smoke during this final heat up stage of the pads in early life. Then coast the vehicle for a mile to allow discs to cool. Do not pull up and park vehicle with brake excessively hot. You must try to get the discs down to below 60-80 degrees C temperature before parking the vehicle.
  • When parked let brakes cool to a final cool-to-touch point. Before touching discs splash a few tiny drops of water onto the disc to asses its temperature to avoid burning fingers. If the water spots cause a “hiss” you have parked up too soon and should go out and drive slowly allowing the brakes to cool further.
NEW DISCS TAKE LONGER TO BED IN

  • Fully bedding new pads to decent condition worn discs/rotors may take only 200-300 miles but when new discs are fitted at the same time bed in times to achieve outer to inner edge contact ( full width blue-grey contact band as mentioned under point 4 above ) can be as long as 800-1000 miles due to extra components needed to be aligned to the vehicle. To Short cut this you can ( and EBC recommend should) have EVEN NEW DISCS Pro Cut Lathe aligned to your vehicle. This process removes only microns of new disc material and shortens bed in time by 75% of the time it COULD take giving you better brakes faster and avoiding hot spotting and pad glazing.
Click to expand...
TERRAIN TAMER HP BRAKE BED-IN PROCEDURE

"We normally recommend to just drive them as normal"

A light touch to start for a few miles and you should be good to go. Rotors are machined to ensure that pad faces are parallel to surface of rotor disks. Material of composite pads don't "glaze" as many products may. Seems to work :)
 
wardharris said:
TERRAIN TAMER HP BRAKE BED-IN PROCEDURE

"We normally recommend to just drive them as normal"

A light touch to start for a few miles and you should be good to go. Rotors are machined to ensure that pad faces are parallel to surface of rotor disks. Material of composite pads don't "glaze" as many products may. Seems to work :)
Click to expand...
That doesn't surprise me with Terrain Tamer pads as they are ceramic, nice an gently on components and great for hot climates like Australia.

But ceramic does not do well in cold environments or cold braking, like highway driving in northern US states where you need to slam on the brakes out of nowhere to avoid something, and they are not very good for hard usage, like racing or IMO crawl control. Sorry for that, I do have to advocate for the devil sometimes. But seriously, Terrain Tamer is good stuff and they have done great things with ceramic pads, like anything, there is always compromise.

But I'm curious what Reckless has to say.
 
Taco2Cruiser said:
That doesn't surprise me with Terrain Tamer pads as they are ceramic, nice an gently on components and great for hot climates like Australia.

But ceramic does not do well in cold environments or cold braking, like highway driving in northern US states where you need to slam on the brakes out of nowhere to avoid something, and they are not very good for hard usage, like racing or IMO crawl control. Sorry for that, I do have to advocate for the devil sometimes. But seriously, Terrain Tamer is good stuff and they have done great things with ceramic pads, like anything, there is always compromise.

But I'm curious what Reckless has to say.
Click to expand...
No worries, sir. I am not an expert, just sharing what we hear back from owners, installing shops, other distributors and the manufacturer. These pads have been in use in Northern Europe for several seasons, with no negative comments. Do you have some references for your comments on cermics and counter-indicated usage?

Thanks!
 
My drilled/ slotted Stoptechs and their pads were a nice upgrade along with thier SS lines..... but not like the old E63's binders....

I'd love to slap a set of 380 Stoptech or Brembos's on but that requires 20" rims...... unless I do the charger I'm holding for now.... IF I do then the Whoa will have to match the Go......

Cheers

E
 
wardharris said:
No worries, sir. I am not an expert, just sharing what we hear back from owners, installing shops, other distributors and the manufacturer. These pads have been in use in Northern Europe for several seasons, with no negative comments. Do you have some references for your comments on cermics and counter-indicated usage?

Thanks!
Click to expand...
I'm not expert either, just a guy who's been messing with stuff for a bit, but from Bridgestone.

"But, as with most things, there is some “give” that comes with the “take”; ceramic brake pads do have some limitations. Primarily, their cost: due to higher manufacturing costs, ceramic brake pads tend to be the most expensive of all types of brake pad. Also, since both ceramic and copper can’t absorb as much heat as other types of materials, more of the heat generated by braking will pass through the brake pads and into the rest of the braking system. This can cause more wear and tear on other braking components. Lastly, ceramic brake pads aren’t considered the best choice for extreme driving conditions, such as very cold climates or racing conditions."

Hey I'll be the first to say a ceramic pad is better than an organic (OEM type), but if you want maximum stopping, go semi-metallic. If you want better than organic, but don't want the noise and hard on component nature of semi-metallic, then ceramic is a better choice.
 
Last edited:
I just refreshed my brakes with all OEM components. New front rotors and pads all around. Also, just upsized to 305/55/20 (33.2") tires which had me a bit hesitant as that reduces brake torque. Pleasantly surprised as the braking is back to being linear and strong.

Funny thing with aftermarket or perfromance pads, and I wonder if this might be the issue you are having. In general, they have less initial bite and friction at cold temps. Because they require heat to be at their optimal coefficient of friction. This is why I prefer OEM pads for street use as they really do walk a better balance between wear, dust, bite, and consistent friction at cold temps.

My P-car, with aggressive stock pads, has a really wooden feel at cold temps because they're designed for performance usage. Okay trade off for that car, but I wouldn't want a performance pad for my normal street cars.

Aggressive pads perform their best at higher temps. They're also design for higher maximum operating temp (MOT), where street pads fall apart. At race pace, even aggressive pads are not ideal, and require race pads. Point being is there is an optimal use for each type of pad, and they exhibit bad manners outside of their designed for use.
 
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