Warm No-Spark Condition, Possible Sensor Issue (1 Viewer)

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Joined
Jun 7, 2023
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4
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Location
Santa Cruz
Title sums it up in the best way possible, but I am working on an 89 4runner 3.0 automatic. Among the other neglect related Toyota issues, my main problem now is that I am having spark cut off once the engine reaches operating temperatures (Im assuming). This issue came on maybe a month or two into owning the thing. I drove it an hour or so after buying it earlier this year so it did not have this issue at that time. Can't exactly blame the last owners. Ultimately the best way I can describe the problem is that I can cold-start perfectly every single time. It's never had an issue with cold starting. Once it idles for about 10 to 20 mins, spark is cut before the coil/igniter. I have not traced leads down to the ECM or further yet but I'd like to assume things are working generally as they should because of how perfectly it cold starts and idles, throttle responses and all until its warm. After warming up, there is no more spark, timing light on the coil to distributor wire confirms this. I get maybe 1 singular flash on key turn but it will crank and crank and fill the cylinders with gas with no spark. After having the issue for a while I would just take my 20 minute drives assuming I would not be able to start the car for another hour after getting to where I wanted to be. I can let it cool down to practically cold-start temps again and it will usually start up for me after a little bit of a hiccup. I seem to get codes randomly depending on how much I am trying to start it after it cuts off on me but I consistently see 12 24 31 51.

As for potential complications that can be ruled out, I have done a lot of work recently as the timing belt and injector connectors needed to be replaced. Heres the list: new timing belt, replaced miscellaneous coolant with red, new vacuum lines, repaired broken solders inside AFM, all intake gaskets, cleaned and reinstalled knock sensor, new knock sensor pigtail, replaced bad ground wires on rear right side cylinder head, replaced any cracked wiring along engine harness, rewrapped and cleaned corrosion from all of engine harness after it leaves right side fender, new battery, replaced rubber fuel hoses, fuel line copper crush washers, set TPS in spec. On top of all of that, I went to oreillys assuming I had bad coil and or igniter and got replacements for both, any combination of all four (original denso's from factory and non denso replacements) with no change in my warm start conditions. I will most likely be returning the replacements from oreillys.

I have tested my distributor and AFM for resistances and both are within spec warm and cool. AFM test by removing the connector only works when cold-starting because it will still send spark to the coil for a short time before shutting off, this does not happen at all when warm.

I am going to say it would be safe to assume this is related to a coolant temp sensor of some kind, however, the block at the back of my intake doesn't have exactly the same connectors as others. I am going to throw up a picture of the block that I have and if anyone could provide with names of the sensors that I should be looking to replace or has an alternative answer for my issue that would be much appreciated. This was taken before cleaning off the entire bypass block, trust that they are cleaned up and the bad single wire to coolant sensor is making a proper connection again. Would replacing these sensors/switches be a good idea just in terms of reliability and longevity or should I be looking elsewhere? Electronically, these bypass block sensors and the red green and blue vacuum switching valves on the passenger fender have not been tested for correct operation.

I will be pulling off my intake to get a better look at and better access for potentially replacing them next week and I'll have a better picture then. Would love to get it back on the road and warmed up to properly time it as well. It looks sad sitting at the back of the driveway.
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this seems like a distributor or disturber wiring.
if its firing injectors it should be making spark.
the ect will cause a hard start, it wont stop spark
 
this seems like a distributor or disturber wiring.
if its firing injectors it should be making spark.
the ect will cause a hard start, it wont stop spark
Even when it cold starts quite easily and runs perfectly until warming up? Im willing to replace the distributor but wanna be sure it'd help when it worked well prior to now.
 
Even when it cold starts quite easily and runs perfectly until warming up? Im willing to replace the distributor but wanna be sure it'd help when it worked well prior to now.
the distributor has coils inside.
the pickups inside is what gives signal to the ignitor.
 
Last edited:
the distributor has coils inside.
the pickhp inside is what gives signal to the ignitor.
I will make an effort to test once I have time and can warm it up. It tested fine cold and at temp previously but maybe something changed. I'll look into it
 
I just Googled the codes you listed and found a lot of posts online with the same issues you're having. I'm sorry I can't offer any help other than to start reading these posts.

Good luck with your troubleshooting and I hope you follow up with your fix. Dead end threads suck.
 
I just Googled the codes you listed and found a lot of posts online with the same issues you're having. I'm sorry I can't offer any help other than to start reading these posts.

Good luck with your troubleshooting and I hope you follow up with your fix. Dead end threads suck.
Yeah these dead end threads are brutal, I've replied to a few but to no avail. All they have primarily offered is general ignition problems which can be anything from a short somewhere in the harness, bad ecm which can still throw codes, or genuinely poorly operating sensors and modules. Many of them describe similar no start conditions but very few have had full spark cutoff at temp which throws me off.
 
Just returned the igniter and coil I had picked up in trying to diagnose the problem. Re-tested my original Denso coil and igniter today and they function identically to the replacements. Tested my distributor again today as per the Haynes and the values in this yotatech post, none of the pins on my distributor provide consistent ohms values like it did last time, I assumed this was normal too. Turns out when hot my distributor cuts off my G1 to G- signal entirely exactly when I lose spark while running and warming up. This is around the same time the distributor gets warm to the touch. Im assuming my signal generators lost its ability to generate signal after a certain temp. Maybe this is normal operation, maybe theres something else wrong. Either way I ordered a new Cardone coming early next week. and will update you guys then.
 
Could be your issue. I wouldn't think it's normal to lose signal when warm.

My old, basic as it gets 52 Ford would start right up and run great and then die when I got a block away from the house. It would start back up after it cooled for about 10 minutes and go another block or so. It was a bad coil. It tested good at first but you have to test things when it STOPS running. That's the frustrating part of troubleshooting. Especially electrical components.
 
Could be your issue. I wouldn't think it's normal to lose signal when warm.

My old, basic as it gets 52 Ford would start right up and run great and then die when I got a block away from the house. It would start back up after it cooled for about 10 minutes and go another block or so. It was a bad coil. It tested good at first but you have to test things when it STOPS running. That's the frustrating part of troubleshooting. Especially electrical components.
Definitely could be the coil, luckily I will likely buy another cheap replacement as they are not hard to come by. Im hoping for the longevity of the Denso though because it has lasted this long without abuse. I know the cold to warm loop signals for the ecu are within the distributor so if I still get cut outs when it's really hot out I will assume bad coil too.
I will add that my distributor also looks like this so I'm not entirely upset about spending money on a new one. I can't be sure this functions correctly and isn't siphoning a good amount of metal shavings from this break into my engine. Mind you, I found it like this. This is not an original Denso distributor as far as I know. Probably got dropped by the last owners when they did cylinder heads
71053714948__CC3AE795-FE41-48FD-99E0-A25D78B5DA6C.jpeg
 
I wasn't suspecting your coil, just the only example I had. I was thinking that you may be correct that it was the component in your distributor that lost signal when it was up to temp and also when it quit running. Plus the code.

That broken distributor housing......yikes. Looks like you're on the right path and approaching this logically.

Problems like this are what make you REALLY learn your truck's system.
 
Problems like this are what make you REALLY learn your truck's system.
God yeah, didn't expect to need to learn this much about a 235k plus mile 3vze this early into ownership. Haven't even had it long enough for an oil change. It's not a fun motor to work on but at least reliable once the laundry list of neglect based problems is cut down a bit.
 
Never updated this thread, life's been keeping me busy. Distributor fixed all issues, went with the new cardone unit because I don't care to search for an original denso and lifetime warranty from Oreillys will no doubt come in handy some day. Works well and stays running through warming up cycles. I'm having troubles with setting timing as I can't seem to get an effective setting anywehre between 30 to 10ish degrees. I know Toyota setting is 10/12 degrees but many here seem to claim some absurd number works for them. I'm thinking I might have one cam off by one tooth so I will adjust and see what comes out of that.
 

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