Julian73
SILVER Star
Doesn't get cold enough for 0W in Texas, even in the panhandle and 20 or 30 hot viscosity makes no difference with respect to outside low temps.
Update: 5W-30 & Heavier Recommended RoTW
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0w40 has been the best for me.
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How so?
Cold weather protection but higher
I am quoting an online source “0W-40 oil flow can normally go down to -40℃, whereas 5W-30 oil flow can go down to -35℃. When it gets hot, 0W-40 oil shows better performance than 5W-30, with the ability to perform well up to +40℃. 5W-30 motor oil only flows normally up to +35℃.”
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- #205
Doesn’t see -40F, but those are extreme weather performance parameters.
0W40 felt right when I tow or cold mornings (here in Austin or when we visited NY during winter)
A given vehicle can have vastly different oil temps depending on what the operator is doing with it, let alone how different vehicles can cool (or not) the oil with various methods of doing so.
I bring this up simply to say “works to +35 or +40” is a huge oversimplification. It depends on the oil temps in a given engine and use case. The ridiculous amount of high-mile 3URs happily ticking along having run 0w-20 their whole lives in contradiction to that chart underlines my point.
Note that I’m not saying not to run 0w-40. I’d consider it too if it weren’t so expensive, given how much oil I put into my 200. I can regularly find the 5w-30 pennzoil platinum I’ve been running for about half the cost of a name brand 0w-40.
Only that one time. Lol
It is too expensive and that’s one of the main hindering factor running 0w40. I usually buy 30 gallon tanks from overstock sales. I managed to get 0w40 once and qualitatively felt better than 0w20 or 5w30
My 2013 has close to 278k miles, engine being smooth at that mileage makes one believe may be 0w40 is better, but could be completely placebo effect
If it happens then we won’t have water for 1 month
This city shuts down if one icicle falls!
Personally dont think 0W is worth it when spec even calls for 10W. I think 5W is perfect middle ground and I wouldn’t worry about cold start at any climate with that really. Not in any non extreme climate like siberia or iceland or laplands or something.
Ive been seeing some stuff on tik tok lately about these wide range oils not being as good on a few properties that I cant recall. There are so many opinions on this and smart ppl arguing both ways i cant find the courage to obsess over this one…
5W-30 for me, as frequently as I can. Bought a few mobil 1 cases at Costco on sale last year ($26.99 for 6 qts.), when thats used up ill buy penzoil UP.
I can easily smell the fuel dilution in my oil on this engine. Not that I’m an expert or anything, but that has been cautioned here a few times as the biggest potential worry by people who know a lot more than I do.
Now my only real question is when or whether at all to run high mileage conditioning oils. Im coming up on 80k and thinking it may be time to save some of these seals.
I've probably said it already in this thread, but I would really caution bigger being better when it comes to oil.
Cold start protection is arguably the larger variable. Higher viscosity is not an asset with cold start when combined with cold weather.
Majority of people are not going to be driving or using their cars in a fashion than requires anymore hot viscosity also. That's just burning more fuel for no reason. Unless someone is using their vehicle in an extreme fashion, and you'll know it because you'll be at 4k+ RPM for 30 minutes at a time, there's little reason to deviate from the manufacturers recommendation.
That said, IMO 5W-30 is going to be just fine for the lower latititudes. Anywhere in the snowbelt, a higher low viscosity is potentially inviting more cold startup wear...the opposite of what one may be trying to achieve.
Cold start protection is arguably the larger variable. Higher viscosity is not an asset with cold start when combined with cold weather.
Majority of people are not going to be driving or using their cars in a fashion than requires anymore hot viscosity also. That's just burning more fuel for no reason. Unless someone is using their vehicle in an extreme fashion, and you'll know it because you'll be at 4k+ RPM for 30 minutes at a time, there's little reason to deviate from the manufacturers recommendation.
That said, IMO 5W-30 is going to be just fine for the lower latititudes. Anywhere in the snowbelt, a higher low viscosity is potentially inviting more cold startup wear...the opposite of what one may be trying to achieve.
@AnyMal my understanding is they have to use different and more involved additive packages to accomplish a wide viscosity spread, and the issue may be the stability of that additive pack over the oil change interval. Whereas if the viscosity spread is narrower you are depending more on the physical properties of the base stock itself to do the protecting.
@TeCKis300 to your point, I do remember reading high viscosity oils like 60w in the v8 M3 do a good job of protecting at high temps, the problem is once the temp is elevated they take forever for that heat to come out of them. Thinner oils will bring the oil temp down much more quickly after the high load condition has subsided, as long as they can mechanically protect the engine. Which could be interpreted as a case for avoiding 40 and 50wt unless absolutely needed.
All of this is shades of gray.. really as long as we are using oil that meets the spec it’s a matter of what makes the most sense to the end user. I’d put money against someone’s engine failing due to use of a -40 oil. Or -20 for that matter.
@TeCKis300 to your point, I do remember reading high viscosity oils like 60w in the v8 M3 do a good job of protecting at high temps, the problem is once the temp is elevated they take forever for that heat to come out of them. Thinner oils will bring the oil temp down much more quickly after the high load condition has subsided, as long as they can mechanically protect the engine. Which could be interpreted as a case for avoiding 40 and 50wt unless absolutely needed.
All of this is shades of gray.. really as long as we are using oil that meets the spec it’s a matter of what makes the most sense to the end user. I’d put money against someone’s engine failing due to use of a -40 oil. Or -20 for that matter.
I have run 5w30 in all of my Land Cruisers since 1987. Even when I spent some time going to school in Fairbanks, AK and those fun -45 mornings. Seems to have worked - still have the 87 FJ60 and it still runs just fine without a rebuild. Same with my 100 and 200. Does it take a few more cranks to start? Maybe, although there doesn’t seem to be much difference in the start time between a truly cold start and one where I have plugged in. But I have noticed that the 5.7 in the 200 idles much more smoothly and quietly on 5w30, close to that wonderful 4.7 in my 100. Even after 450k miles that 4.7 still sounds like a sewing machine.
We definitely all hear a collective smoothing of the engine. Its not placebo!
I also noticed it builds pressure way better. And doesnt over pressure. I used to see before the switch the pressure gauge wouldn’t ever really budge past the lower quarter mark, even at WOT overtaking on freeway. That doesn’t seem good but what do i know. Now it goes from between quarter to half mark when i step on it. As I would expect.
@TeCKis300 as far as cold start no one would argue 0 weight isnt best, but isn’t that the job of the boost pressure circuit on startup? It hits the 3/4 mark as intended just like the 0W with my 5W and never exceeded it or has changed at all by even a millimeter. It seems to do a great job of distribution on crank to protect the engine.
Also, in theory, wouldn’t the heavier stuff stick and adhere better when cold mitigating some of the weight flow issues?
Not to be a contrarian but tradition isn't a good anecdote when it comes to technology. Technology moves on and the 5.7L is a very different beast. They didn't just decide by committee to use 0W-20. Rather it was designed from the ground up as a system to use that oil specification. Clearances would be very different on the 5.7L to an old school 2F.
It's the very first few turns of the engine before flow and pressure is achieved that wear happens. By definition, a higher viscosity oil will resist flow more. Slowing down it's travel to the critical interfaces of the engine where it's metal on metal until sufficient pressure and fluid film is established.
There's generally very little concern to WOT and running the engine hard as the load points and bearing surface areas designs have already taken into account spec'd viscosity and load, including margin.
Stick is relative. Depends on how someone uses their car, every day vs letting it sit days on end.
We can compare to the 2UR-GSE though, same family, and plenty of similarities to the 3UR along with bearing clearances. 5W30 or 10W30 is recommended, xW40 might be ok. I believe guys tracking those F cars found xW50 oils ran significantly hotter than the 30W oils.… too much resistance to pumping and shear. Additional oil cooling was required.
Heritage 2020
SILVER Star
In my view, it depends on where you live and how you use your vehicle.
My family goes back and forth between Tennessee (very hot summers/fairly mild winters) and Montana (fairly hot summers/brutally cold winters).
We overland and NPS trails plus mild stuff in between.
We go to the mall and Starbucks—thus the ARB bull bar to fend off drive through mishaps.
Overall: A high quality factory recommended 0w/20 full synthetic changed every 5000 miles will do fine—just as an 0w/30, 5w/30, full synthetic. I believe people overthink things.
The 3UR-FE is a great engine and doesn’t require overthinking, just good maintenance.
I’m no oil engineer or scientist, but common sense tells me such from owning a variety of vehicles.
My family goes back and forth between Tennessee (very hot summers/fairly mild winters) and Montana (fairly hot summers/brutally cold winters).
We overland and NPS trails plus mild stuff in between.
We go to the mall and Starbucks—thus the ARB bull bar to fend off drive through mishaps.
Overall: A high quality factory recommended 0w/20 full synthetic changed every 5000 miles will do fine—just as an 0w/30, 5w/30, full synthetic. I believe people overthink things.
The 3UR-FE is a great engine and doesn’t require overthinking, just good maintenance.
I’m no oil engineer or scientist, but common sense tells me such from owning a variety of vehicles.
Yeah, maybe, but Russia runs 5W30 in the gas 200s and it seems to work well in the cold as well. Only the US market recommends 0W20 and that is for fuel savings. Ill waste a little gas to get 500k miles out of the engine.
I guess we’ll see. I have 18 more years to go.
This is a good video explaining stuff.
kinda starts addressing our question in this thread at about 6:00 mark
kinda starts addressing our question in this thread at about 6:00 mark