toyota tar mat / sound deadener removal? Tips? Tricks?

[sl33py]

Anybody ever weigh this stuff to see what it weighs when removed?

All of mine fit in a large garbage bag - wasn't too heavy to lift easily. Versus the damplifier i got in two boxes because it was too heavy to lift otherwise...

rob

 

[archie]

If it is still firmly attached after 20 years, why do you want to take the factory stuff off? The reason to go with the butyl rubber after market stuff instead of the asphault stuff it because the asphault after market stuff tends to fall off. But even if the factory stuff is asphault, it's stood the test of time. Hopefully my butyl rubber stuff will stay on 20 years.

So, someone help me understand why the factory dampener has to go even when it is still firmly attached? Unless someone changes my mind, I'm planning on putting the RAAMAT right over it. The factory stuff in conjunction with the new stuff will make things even more quiet.

I vote to leave it on also. It is a rust inhibitor also. That's why they use tar on roofs, it prevents water penetration.
Let's say you pay yourself $10/hour for labor. Now imagining investing 16 hours on removal. Add misc. materials cost and frustration and you will see it would be easier to leave it on.
I cut a panel out on the bottom of my 62 series (fuel repair) and I found it pretty well attached. It' didn't move in the first 20 years, I don't think it's going anywhere in the next 20 years.

 

[NLXTACY]

So for all you naysayers

Dry Ice for the win. I think I waited too long. Now I can see that just a minute or two is all that is needed.

thanks guys. my brother came over last night and we got all the tar mat removed in about 2 hours with dry ice, a rubber mallet, chisel, and screwdrivers!

We finally worked out a system of freezing the mat, waiting 1-2 min. hitting it hard w/ one of those mallets - hard plastic on one side, rubber on the other (from harbor freight). The hard side seemed to work well, better than w/ a regular metal hammer. he was able to get HUGE pieces to come up then just using his hand. It also left very little adhesive to remove. I finished up last night with what was left of the dry ice (started w/ 5 lbs) freezing little bits left over and tapping w/ the flat screwdriver.

Finished that and started laying down damplifier (after cleaning w/ windex) - got drivers footwell done, but a lot to do still! I will get a thread started for damplifier install.

thanks for the help!!

rob

 

[sl33py]

damplifier on metal vs on original tar mat.

That is encouraging that you got the old stuff off in 2 hours. Since I have that decision still to make, what led you to decide to remove the factory dampening material rather than leave it be?

I did it before i spoke with Anthony (Second Skin CEO/VP/Rep). Luckily it's the right thing.

paraphrasing Anthony from SS: the benefit of damplifier (any dampener really) is it dampens what it is attached to. So sticking to tar mat dampens tar mat, not the sheet metal you want.

Ultimately it's not as effective and you are spending $$ to get poor results. an improvement - i'm sure, but not what it's capable of.

Now i'm enough of a geek that i got a used radio shack SPL (analog) and took some measurements driving home on the freeway. I'll get a thread going specific to the install and post them up w/ improvements when completed. Hopefully a big improvement!

GL with yours!

rob

 

[sl33py]

also, if i were to do it again. TWO 5lb bags of dry ice would be the way to go. we ended up fighting over pieces - especially as they shrank. Two sets of them would've made it sit even longer on each section, with the ability to swap pieces around more while one is being cooled, chip the next, and leapfrog. the longer it sits on the tar - the easier it is to remove.

I think w/ that we could've done it in 1 hour plus a bit. Especially a second time i think we could really cruise now.

GL!

rob

 

[sl33py]

and here is what i was able to accomplish last night before crashing late:

i'll post up the rest of the pics when i do a writeup.

rob

 

[slcfj62]

Now i'm enough of a geek that i got a used radio shack SPL (analog) and took some measurements driving home on the freeway. I'll get a thread going specific to the install and post them up w/ improvements when completed. Hopefully a big improvement!

It is going to be interesting to see how that goes. Are you going to do the check after you get the stuff on the floor and before you do the doors? I'd be curious to see if it makes a measureable difference. The floor, with the factory dampener and the carpet probably does a pretty good job. It think most of the road noise comes through the sides.

At any rate, I asked another professional source, the guy at RAAMMAT and he recommended putting the new stuff over the old stuff and that the two would work together. So this is starting to sound like a political discussion. That's why I am interested to see if you measure much of a difference with just doing the floor. If you do, then I will vote your method.

 

[hank14]

the benefit of damplifier (any dampener really) is it dampens what it is attached to. So sticking to tar mat dampens tar mat, not the sheet metal you want.

I'm no harmonics expert, but this seems ridiculous to me. If the tar material is so solidly adhered to the metal that a chisel busts through the sheet metal as easily as it removes the tar, I do not think you can "dampen" one surface and not the other.

The only reason I would think you would want to remove the tar is it is was already coming up, peeling off, or there was rust and decay to address before adding the mat.

My $0.02.

 

[Elbert]

what happens to this stuff if it gets wet? (damplifier)

 

[sl33py]

It is going to be interesting to see how that goes. Are you going to do the check after you get the stuff on the floor and before you do the doors? I'd be curious to see if it makes a measureable difference. The floor, with the factory dampener and the carpet probably does a pretty good job. It think most of the road noise comes through the sides.

At any rate, I asked another professional source, the guy at RAAMMAT and he recommended putting the new stuff over the old stuff and that the two would work together. So this is starting to sound like a political discussion. That's why I am interested to see if you measure much of a difference with just doing the floor. If you do, then I will vote your method.

Sorry SLC, but i started on the PS door before tackling the tar mat... I can take readings if you'd like, but i agree the doors are going to be critical to quieting it down. I can even just finish that one door and do the floor, then measure. I imagine it's going to be pretty loud without any carpet though...

i'm flexible. a quick run down the road (target of 60-65mph) and measure is easy.

rob

 

[sl33py]

I'm no harmonics expert, but this seems ridiculous to me. If the tar material is so solidly adhered to the metal that a chisel busts through the sheet metal as easily as it removes the tar, I do not think you can "dampen" one surface and not the other.

The only reason I would think you would want to remove the tar is it is was already coming up, peeling off, or there was rust and decay to address before adding the mat.

My $0.02.

Scott - i'm no harmonics expert either. I do believe him, this wasn't a sales pitch and this is from someone that knows their stuff (competitions etc). It makes sense to me. the tar will move, but not as much as the metal. adhering strongly to the metal should result in the best improvement. getting this stuff the the parts that move the most (ie metal) gives the best benefit.
I guarantee it is an improvement over the tar, but it's supposed to be even a bigger improvement when it's fully bound to the sheet metal.

I've heard great stuff about RAAMMat and don't doubt it will "work together" - but wonder what's the best setup - over tar, by itself, or two layers? If i want to layer mine, i want room for both layers to be the damplifier...

round and round we go. Ultimately - any dampener should help. I was willing to invest a bit of extra time to eek out any performance i could (plus some free slave labor - ala brother). Hopefully also simplify the install a bit and have flexibility if i want more layers.

Good luck with however you do yours!

rob

 

[slcfj62]

Sorry SLC, but i started on the PS door before tackling the tar mat... I can take readings if you'd like, but i agree the doors are going to be critical to quieting it down. I can even just finish that one door and do the floor, then measure. I imagine it's going to be pretty loud without any carpet though...

i'm flexible. a quick run down the road (target of 60-65mph) and measure is easy.

rob

No No, don't change up your plans on my account. Keep truckin'. Time to work on these things is usually stolen from something else.

 

[sl33py]

what happens to this stuff if it gets wet? (damplifier)

Nothing should happen. it's butyl (ie like rubber and solid w/ foil backing)

It's not permeable like some of the open cell foams (i'd avoid those). It should just be a matter of drying your carpet and wiping the dampener off. I am eventually going to install vinyl to make it even easier. Just waiting for it to arrive.

rob

 

[sl33py]

No No, don't change up your plans on my account. Keep truckin'. Time to work on these things is usually stolen from something else.

i took some measurements going down freeway, and can't recall now if which was A or C weighted. either way it was WAY TOO LOUD! 70-80db and 90-100db (one was A, one was C, not sure which, and both set slow response). I am missing the DS door panel though which really can't help... I have a couple posts on the wanted section for newer replacements.

PO butchered them for 6x9 speakers (of all the dumb**** ideas!).

so there is my baseline. i'll grab some as i finish stages and let you know. this all will be in my damplifier thread (with lots of pics of course!)

rob

 

[TX650L]

What do you guys think of having spray in bed liner shot over the facotry sound deadening stuff? Mine is still very intact after all this time and I imagine it won't be very noticable under a layer of spray in.

 

[Spike Strip]

BTW, another sure fire way to get the tar up easily.....

Coolant, yes engine coolant. Ask SPIKE STRIP how we know

Well, doesn't quite get it up ... (you know what I mean)

Hot coolant (leaking from the rear heater) first melts then mixes with the tar and just kinda turns it into your own personal La Brea Tar Pits behind the passenger seat

So far I've found two Saber-tooth tigers and a Jeep Mechanic!

Some day I'll drop the dry-ice on it and freeze it like The BLOB!

 

[Creeker]

I'm no harmonics expert, but this seems ridiculous to me. If the tar material is so solidly adhered to the metal that a chisel busts through the sheet metal as easily as it removes the tar, I do not think you can "dampen" one surface and not the other.

The only reason I would think you would want to remove the tar is it is was already coming up, peeling off, or there was rust and decay to address before adding the mat.

My $0.02.

I'm hoping to start sound damp work this fall, and I plan to leave the factory stuff in place. I've had my carpet stripped out of the front for a year, and the Toyota tar is as solid as ever and fully adhered. I agree with Hank; unless there are underlying problems, leave the factory stuff in place for additional dampening.