asutherland
VA7 HDT
That is odd. Please report back to us how it's coming along. 
Did he provide tracking info? Or just say it was mailed?
Did he provide tracking info? Or just say it was mailed?
Snorkel $190
- Thread starter diego355
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That is odd. Please report back to us how it's coming along.
Yes he did after I told him I was contacting ebay. He replied back sorry for the late response I've been very busy. The freight company is out of China. Says I will have it between 5/2 and 5/9. So I will see he did apoligize for the delay.
I have one of these snorkels and i am very happy with it. I am thinking of importing them to the USA to reduce the costs for us. Would anyone be interested?
Sounds like an good idea the only thing is ARB USA might be able to come after you then and your stock here stateside .
From what I've seen ARB really does not want people buying these as they seem to be direct knock off's even seem to have the same oval where the Safari would normally be displayed.
If my hypothesis is correct, 
these are just taken off the ARB/Safari manufacturing line before the name imprint is done, or they're run on the same manufacturing equipment with the name imprinting disabled.
Either way, if I'm right, this scenario is the Chinese stealing them from ARB/Safari and selling them to us anonymously via eBay. It's called the "gray market".
We're basically buying stolen goods.
That is why I don't think there will be any organized, formal importation of these in bulk. We're not dealing with a legitimate, formal business. But it's not theoretically impossible to get them in bulk. I think you'd have to go to China, meet these people, buy them in bulk, and arrange shipping yourself.
Of course,... I could be wrong.
these are just taken off the ARB/Safari manufacturing line before the name imprint is done, or they're run on the same manufacturing equipment with the name imprinting disabled.Either way, if I'm right, this scenario is the Chinese stealing them from ARB/Safari and selling them to us anonymously via eBay. It's called the "gray market".
We're basically buying stolen goods.
That is why I don't think there will be any organized, formal importation of these in bulk. We're not dealing with a legitimate, formal business. But it's not theoretically impossible to get them in bulk. I think you'd have to go to China, meet these people, buy them in bulk, and arrange shipping yourself.
Of course,... I could be wrong.
If my hypothesis is correct,
Either way, if I'm right, this scenario is the Chinese stealing them from ARB/Safari and selling them to us anonymously via eBay. It's called the "gray market".
We're basically buying stolen goods.
That is why I don't think there will be any organized, formal importation of these in bulk. We're not dealing with a legitimate, formal business. But it's not theoretically impossible to get them in bulk. I think you'd have to go to China, meet these people, buy them in bulk, and arrange shipping yourself.
Of course,... I could be wrong.
I am almost certain this is the case for you 80 Series owners, however the 100 Series snorkel has been tracked back to a factory in MY. There is a separate factory that pumps out all sorts of replicas and have been around for almost a decade. Let me find the link and post it.
This was however a bummer, but at the same time it was nice knowing where my snorkel came from. The 100 Series thread on these snorkels got very scientific. A few members did lots of research (me included, but mostly them). The link is probably a few pages back at this point. It's worth reading.
pmans post in the 100-Series Section
___________________________________
Ok, so my curiosity got the best of me and I decided to do more research on polymers, cause I go to Georgia Tech and they ruin you as a person when you go there. Also, Im sure someone will find it interesting and helpful....maybe.
First off, I am not a Polymer Engineer. I know the basics of materials engineering and the basic chemistry behind polymers, so I can at least be of some, albeit very little help on this. The info below is what I gathered from a few hours of research, I have listed the link below each section that contains information from that site. What I have posted below is my best attempt to be purely factual and shed more light on engineering behind this stuff.
Basically, UV8, UV20, or UVX, where X is any number, means that the plastic can withstand X*1000 hrs of UV exposure in normal conditions, i.e. being outside. So UV8 is good for 8000hrs of UV exposure, UV20 is for 20,000 hrs of exposure. How do they determine what rating to give? Well they basically find out how many hours of UV exposure the polymer can handle before it loses more than 50% of its original tensile elongation value. So as an example, LLDPE is supposed to have a max tensile elongation value of 500-900%, after 8000 or whatever hours of UV exposure (Im not entirely sure of its UV rating) it will only have a max tensile elongation of 250-450%. The references for this info are below:
Tensile Property Testing of Plastics
Material Properties of LLDPE, Commodity Polymers | Polymers Data Sheets
http://www.polyprocessing.com/pdf/technical/CarbonBlackandPlastics.pdf
Safari seems to think that 20,000hrs is good for 20 years of life, so 1000 hours=1 year of normal usage on a car. By that standard and the info they give on their don't get burned site, the chinese knockoffs from 5 years ago were still good for 8 years of use before degrading. Source link is below
Don't Get Burnt - Low Quality Snorkel Copies
___________________________________
Ok, so my curiosity got the best of me and I decided to do more research on polymers, cause I go to Georgia Tech and they ruin you as a person when you go there. Also, Im sure someone will find it interesting and helpful....maybe.
First off, I am not a Polymer Engineer. I know the basics of materials engineering and the basic chemistry behind polymers, so I can at least be of some, albeit very little help on this. The info below is what I gathered from a few hours of research, I have listed the link below each section that contains information from that site. What I have posted below is my best attempt to be purely factual and shed more light on engineering behind this stuff.
Basically, UV8, UV20, or UVX, where X is any number, means that the plastic can withstand X*1000 hrs of UV exposure in normal conditions, i.e. being outside. So UV8 is good for 8000hrs of UV exposure, UV20 is for 20,000 hrs of exposure. How do they determine what rating to give? Well they basically find out how many hours of UV exposure the polymer can handle before it loses more than 50% of its original tensile elongation value. So as an example, LLDPE is supposed to have a max tensile elongation value of 500-900%, after 8000 or whatever hours of UV exposure (Im not entirely sure of its UV rating) it will only have a max tensile elongation of 250-450%. The references for this info are below:
Tensile Property Testing of Plastics
Material Properties of LLDPE, Commodity Polymers | Polymers Data Sheets
http://www.polyprocessing.com/pdf/technical/CarbonBlackandPlastics.pdf
Safari seems to think that 20,000hrs is good for 20 years of life, so 1000 hours=1 year of normal usage on a car. By that standard and the info they give on their don't get burned site, the chinese knockoffs from 5 years ago were still good for 8 years of use before degrading. Source link is below
Don't Get Burnt - Low Quality Snorkel Copies
I'm still dubious about it all because I believe this chemical analysis work is all based on the ARB/Safari paid-for "report". That means, this write up "assumes" everything the ARB/Safari report says is true. I'm just doubtful. Call me a skeptic. Too many years in military intelligence.
We all know about the site in Malaysia which sells all the 4x4 stuff. But do we know that they make the stuff there? My snorkel came from Malaysia, but that doesn't mean it was made there.
Bottom line is these snorkels are a good deal, seem to work just fine, and seem to arrive when ordered. In the end, if you're going to shop on the gray market, you're going to have to adapt.
We all know about the site in Malaysia which sells all the 4x4 stuff. But do we know that they make the stuff there? My snorkel came from Malaysia, but that doesn't mean it was made there.
Bottom line is these snorkels are a good deal, seem to work just fine, and seem to arrive when ordered. In the end, if you're going to shop on the gray market, you're going to have to adapt.
asutherland
VA7 HDT
Check where all your electronic stuff around the house is made. Or that $40 iPod cable. Hah, ask Apple.
The paper work that came with my snorkel stated in more than one spot " country of mfg. Malaysia ".
Whether or not that means anything I'm not sure. What I do know is it looks and feels identical to the
Safari on my last 80.
Whether or not that means anything I'm not sure. What I do know is it looks and feels identical to the
Safari on my last 80.
Well I received mine today after a nominal 11 day shipping time. The box, it came in however, looked like it had been run over by a truck. I dont know what it speakes of the plastic quality of these, but despite the box being crushed, the snorkel looks perfect, not a single mark!
ARB cannot do a single thing to stop these grey market sales. In the image you see the BMW X5 and a chinese copy. BMW tried to sue the chinese car maker. they lost.
Hey Zoomie, can you post a link to this case?
My hypothesis has been that the snorkel factory is in China and that there was only this one factory. In that case, ARB/Safari's only recourse might be to tear the factory down and move it back to Australia. I don't know if any of this is true or possible though.
I'm registering for the full blown International Law course next Fall so maybe I'll learn more about this stuff then.
If you go pilot/nav/abm/intel/afsoc or maybe engineer you'll learn a lot about Chinese reverse engineering.
BMW loses court battle to chinese X5 clone
Im probably going to do aquisitions or contracting. im not PQed
Thanks! I did a quick search and found some NYTimes articles from 07/08. Wow! If the Chinese government "approves" these products, then the companies have little to no recourse in Chinese courts.
Anyway, I don't think this is the "gray market" exactly, but it's all pretty close.
Oh, Contracting/Acquisitions always sounded really cool. Lot of people go to L.A. with that. You'll have a great career in or out of the AF with that probably. We refer to contracts in law school as "K". Kinda bores me, but if it's your thing, that's great. The world needs people who can make sense of huge complex contracts.
From what I have read before, it seemed like there were more than one manufacturer "knocking" these off. I really doubt they are all from the same manufacturer ARB uses. I imagine it is really easy for a plastic manufacturer to get an original snorkel and then copy/mold it.
I'm just surprised it would be profitable enough to bother.
theres a market for anything. look at how many people have bought it from our forum. we dont know how many people work at these knock offs, it could only be a few people. as long as they are making profit they will give ARB a run for their money, especially for a product that can easily be reproduced and has no real possibility for catastrophic failure.