Rust issues

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T

TuffMudder

Still working on my FJ55!
10 Year
Joined
Oct 2, 2013
Threads
42
Messages
758
Location
Fort Smith, AR
I wanted to get some opinions on my project.

I have a guy who works on my 1969 pig and this has been a full frame off restomod from the beginning. I had the body removed from the frame, body and frame sandblasted to bare metal, had visible damage cut out and new metal welded in and then had it painted. I don't recall what was put on the frame, but I think it was por15. The body received 2 part epoxy primer, then lizard skin sound and heat on both sides of the floor pan and firewall and then urethane paint over everything. This was approximately 2-3 years ago.

He recently had to put the project on hold due to a contract he is fulfilling, so I brought the body and frame home to store it recently. I went out this week and started looking it over and noticed rust starting to pop up in a lot of places, including some coming through the lizard skin. As I looked closer, I found areas that had gotten little to know pain showing extensive rust. Additionally there are areas where the paint is falling off in ships and others that are peeling off.

I'll post pics in a follow up post, but my question is, is this just to be expected/accepted, or is it reasonable for me to hold the guy accountable? Do I have a valid argument that this kind of rust is due to poor workmanship, in particular poor prep work. If that's the case, while I wouldn't expect him to pay for the sandblasting or the supplies, should I expect him to eat the time it takes to get this right?

I do realize, if I want it done right, I should have done it myself, but I didn't have the skill, space or time and was willing to pay the money thinking I would have a better outcome.

I'm on the fence about addressing this with him vs just accepting it for what it is. You guys have more experience with saving these pigs than anyone, so any input while I make this decision would be appreciated.
 
Have all the pics on photobucket and it's really having problems tonight, to the point that I can't post the pics her, so I transferred them to Imgur. The link is below and descriptions are with the images. Sorry for the inconvenience

FJ55
 
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This is me learning that if you reserve a spot thinking your going to post pics from photobucket, but then have to use an imgur link, you can't delete the post
 
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reserved...
but not needed
 
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Looks like he took the term "paint over rust" a little too literal. I'm not a body or paint expert but it looks like his prep work was lacking. Or he stripped the metal and didnt cover it soon enough.
 
scrapdaddy said:
Wow, that's a shame. What does the painter say about it?
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I haven't had that conversation yet. I wanted to see if others agreed about holding him accountable before talking with him, because i have a pretty good idea how the conversation is going to go.

In my opinion, this looks like a failure in the prep, but i'm no expert. My dilemna is what to do. I don't think it will go over well with him. Would i think 'should' happen is the work gets redone. I pay for supplies and sandblasting, he eats the cost of his time. If he is fully on board that's the route i'll go, if he's not, i'm concerned about him conceding and redoing it with us not on good terms.

Of course if he just says those are the breaks, there's nothing i can do, and i'll have to decide to either move forward or start redoing things. Problem there is the lizard skin. That stuff isn't coming off So the firewall and floor pan i'm stuck with how it is now, unless somebody knows a lizard skin secret I couldn't uncover with google.
 
TuffMudder said:
I do realize, if I want it done right, I should have done it myself, but I didn't have the skill, space or time
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I would expect to pay 15,000.00 to 25,000.00 to have your shell prepped and painted correctly, again this is a starting point for a clean daily driver and any major rust repair would make that number go up. Looking at the pictures I’m guessing you paid somewhere around 8,000.00. If so looks like you got about what you paid for, if you paid 15K plus then I would definitely take it back and have a chat with the shop that did the work.

So moving forward, do you have more time, skill or space now than you did then?

I’m guessing you’re not building a show truck and probably haven’t painted many cars, if I’m correct my suggestion is set some realistic goals. Knowing something looks bad is a completely different skill set than the ones required to do the job correctly. Most of these projects get stalled out because guys want something “right” but underestimate the skill and money it takes to do it “right” and start over thinking it..

Option one would be just spot repair the areas in your photos because that could happen quickly (like a weekend at my shop) and get it scuffed and painted a color you like and start putting it back together. Will something pop back through and some future date? Likely. But could you be driving this beast by the end of the year? Again likely. If you’re going to drive it off road there is a good chance rocks and trees are going to leave a few ugly spots making the other imperfections seem less important.

Option two would be strip it all back down and find a shop willing to tackle a complete restoration, expect this to take several more years and 10’s of thousands of dollars. It is possible to make something too nice to use and once you pass through these doors of “let’s do it right” it’s hard to turn back.

Option three would be strip it all back down and try to “do it right” yourself. Be warned if you are lacking just one of the time, skill, space or money things that it takes to complete a project this size it’s likely it will never see the light of day.



I apologize if this sounds Dicky I assure you that’s not my intent, this is a very cool project and looking back through the years of build threads here in the sty it’s very rare to see one of this magnitude actually ever get completed.

I guarantee you a less than perfect running driving pig will put a bigger smile on your face than incomplete project
 
@wngrog I'm in arkansas, definitely not a salty climate. I've had the pig since Oct 2013 and it went to his shop shortly after i recieved it and he has had the entire time until about 2 months ago.

@J Mack I have of 60k in the project so far. I don't know exactly how much was in the body, but from sand blasting, body work, prep and paint, I know i'm over 8k. Now whether its 10k, 15k or more i don't know. also, was never intended to be a finalized paint job, just a layer of urethane he wanted to put over the primer for added rust protection. The intent was always to scuff this up and do bedliner over this, so there was no blocking or added sanding or layers (I assume your estimate was for a proper paint job)

I have no desire for a show queen and I don't buy anything that i don't plan to use the hell out of, especially vehicles. My goal from the beginning has been make this a truck that will last a lifetime and my first step was to get it down to prestine metal and start fresh with the intention of not having to worry about rust.

I do not have additional space, just a 2 1/2 car garage to work in. no new skills and time is always an issue with a full time job, wife and 2 young kids, but i will do the small pieces that make up the engine compartment and will have a better feel for whether I could redo the body minus the lizard skin sections.

I think that covers your questions, and I appreciate the feedback

I have considered option 1. For the frame, i think that's the way to go. I've got areas that have chipped off,but the frame remains solid and i don't think rust will be an issue. The body however, I'm genuinely concerned at how quickly this could get out of control. I assume based on what is showing up this soon, that i have a real problem lurking underneath. There's no way i get out of this vehicle under 80k even doing all remaining work myself, and I'd hate to have spent that much to have the vehicle become a rust bucket in another 5-10 years.
 
Wow. $60,000 and this is where you are. Wow.


Do you have a link to the rest of the build?


If the body is like you want it is there some sort of process where you can dip it or coat it to kill the rust?
 
I’m only offering opinions because you asked for them, feel free to tell me to shut up anytime.



TuffMudder said:
@J Mack I have of 60k in the project so far.
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Ha, you’re about half way there..



TuffMudder said:
(I assume your estimate was for a proper paint job)
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Yes sir.



TuffMudder said:
with the intention of not having to worry about rust.
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I don’t believe that’s an option with a 55 once the rust process begins (some would argue that’s day one). You could try dipping or some other high dollar process to slow it down to a crawl but stopping it without aftermarket body panels would be nearly impossible at this point, (all of our body panels have rust spots lingering in hidden areas and it’s just a matter of time before they show their ugly head). Due diligence is the best course of action on a daily driver, fix what you can see, squirt some protective coating in the places you can, don’t worry about what you can’t control and drive on.



TuffMudder said:
and I'd hate to have spent that much to have the vehicle become a rust bucket in another 5-10 years.
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Clearly it’s not getting better sitting so you might as well put it together and drive it, the body is going to do what it’s going to do. Trying to prevent the unpreventable is a fruitless endeavor that doesn’t get you driving your pig any sooner.


I built my 55 in a one man shop mostly by myself after work and family in 14 months. Is it perfect? No. Is it the best 55? No. Would I do everything the same if I had it to do over? No. Did I make mistakes along the way? Absolutely. Do I give a $hit? No, I’m having a blast driving this pig around warts and all and when something $hits the bed I’ll deal with it then, for now I’m only concerned with the things I can control like how much beer to pack for the pig party!

Good luck man I truly hope you get this one on the road!!!
 
wngrog said:
Never mind. I found it. I'm
Settling in to read up.
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Warning, I'm the worlds worst at documenting so unfortunately there are sizable gaps in my thread
 
J Mack, I'll be glad to tell you to shut up if I feel it's necessary, but I wouldn't have asked the question if I didn't want to hear peoples answers

I'll talk to Jessi to see what he says, but I think I'll plan to finish it out myself and just hire out fabrication.
 
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