RTH - tightening the wheel bearings

[Mountainpassing]

Hey there is 2 data points!
So the Tools method has quite a variance.
I have personally read several of those posts where his numbers change. My guess is there is a sweet spot for each 80 and it just depends,might even be different depending on what bearings one buys.
For me fsm is spot on and for others who winged it and failed and then went fsm it was spot on.
Ive never had any doubt about Tools r us being skilled but assuming anyone else is as average as me ,i recommend the fsm.

I do get what your saying about shear but my guess is that its quantifiable and doesnt add up to much in the way of torque values.

 

[BILT4ME]

Thanks guys. I might have to revisit that axle before my trip next week. Anything in specific that I should look for that would suggest it was too tight when I open it again? I havent seen smoke in mine. Only have driven it for 100 miles or so though.

If you pull off the outer cover and the grease is BLACK (and maybe runny) then it was too tight. If it is still near original color, then you're good to go. It depends on tire size. If you're running 37+, then 45 is a good number.

 

[BILT4ME]

Hey there is 2 data points!
So the Tools method has quite a variance.
I have personally read several of those posts where his numbers change. My guess is there is a sweet spot for each 80 and it just depends,might even be different depending on what bearings one buys.
For me fsm is spot on and for others who winged it and failed and then went fsm it was spot on.
Ive never had any doubt about Tools r us being skilled but assuming anyone else is as average as me ,i recommend the fsm.

I do get what your saying about shear but my guess is that its quantifiable and doesnt add up to much in the way of torque values.

I'm an old car guy. I have a 59 Studebaker and have used the standard green WB grease in it for years. The official FSM for these says to snug it, then back it off one castellation and install the pin. No rotating torque value or anything.

I ran the green grease in it and frequently had WB problems. I went to the Red-N-Tacky 2, torqued to 25 LB-FT, and have run the car at 100+ MPH for extended amounts of time and had no issues. The RNT2 does not liquefy like the old GG does. It has a higher melting point and can take considerably more pressure than the GG can.

I can't just go buy new hubs for the Stude, so I really watch what I do there and that is what really sold me on the torque values and the RNT2. The WB on the Stude are TINY in comparison to the LC, so the LC bearings at 25 LB-FT is much less per square inch than that on the Stude.

From my personal past experience, I could tighten WB to the pint where they would squeak and barely be able to turn by hand. Once using the RNT2, I can't find that point and it really tells me that the "new" lubricants are MUCH better than the old stuff from when our cars and trucks were originally designed. Bearing tolerances are tighter, grease pressures are higher, WB can run tighter.

 

[Mountainpassing]

Agreed, modern grease is waay better.
WB can be (theoretically) tightened more: Agreed but to what extent? Does it really fall outside the fsm?
There is an engineer out there that knows exactly the figure the torque is moved over, but can it be measured on an at home torque wrench?
I personally don't know the figure but id love to be let in on exactly how much its changed since 97. Like i said i suspect its marginal.
My advice (remember I'm just average) is to use all the best Japanese components and the best torque wrench and scale. Use them per fsm and see how it goes! Unless your one of these naturally skilled mechanics in which case just ignore me.

 

[DirtScaresMe]

Yes. The inner nut is the one that actually sets the preload on the bearings. That one goes to 25-35 LB-FT. Then locking ring. Then outer nut torqued to 45 LB-FT.

Heard the clicks in my torque wrench at those spots, and put it all back on. Don't have the 12/6 play anymore, will take it off the jacks and drive it around tonight and tomorrow to see how it goes.

 

[DirtScaresMe]

Thanks guys, big part of why I love my 80 is this forum.

 

[BILT4ME]

Heard the clicks in my torque wrench at those spots, and put it all back on. Don't have the 12/6 play anymore, will take it off the jacks and drive it around tonight and tomorrow to see how it goes.

Hopefully you filled the gap between the inner and outer bearings with grease. Some people forget to do this. If not, then the grease can liquefy and run out of the bearing and have inadequate lube. I always fill the center so when I install the hub, I have a big gob on the end of the spindle that I must wipe off.

 

[Gabriel 71]

Screw the fish scale it's for fish set st 30lbs I have had to redo mine cause of loosening up, set to low first few times doing by the book will result in loose wheel bearings. Toyota has been wrong in the past example 7fe head bolt spec. Real world most people running even slightly bigger tires will have to go beyond Toyota's spec for wheel bearing preload.

 

[bigredmachine]

Cool, thanks bros.

And when you're talking "inner" and "outer", inner is the one that compresses the wheel bearing and outer is the one that's ontop of the ring with the guide tab on it, right?

inner sets the bearing preload, outer acts as a jam nut on the inner.

 

[Tools R Us]

...
WB can be (theoretically) tightened more: Agreed but to what extent?

Know of a few who have misread the FSM and set both nuts to 47ft/lb. Ran them long term, including highway trips, with zero delectable issue. Didn't replace the bearings, looked great, repack/reset.

... Does it really fall outside the fsm? There is an engineer out there that knows exactly the figure the torque is moved over, but can it be measured on an at home torque wrench?
I personally don't know the figure but id love to be let in on exactly how much its changed since 97. Like i said i suspect its marginal.
My advice (remember I'm just average) is to use all the best Japanese components and the best torque wrench and scale. Use them per fsm and see how it goes! Unless your one of these naturally skilled mechanics in which case just ignore me.

In playing with the fish scale, fresh grease and seals, were able to get proper FSM numbers with very little tension on the nut. Couldn't tell if the bearing was turning or the inner race turning on the spindle. Depending on how it was pulled, new grease/seals vs old, thicker vs thinner grease, etc, there was a wide variance in nut tension. That is why we started playing with the torque wrench, is more consistent, reduces the variables. That method is much more common, most bearing preload is done that way, almost no one uses a fish scale.

When the races move, it wears the washer, allowing more movement, making more wear, now starts beating up the spindle. In decades of dealing with these, have replaced our share of spindles, etc. Going to the torque wrench method has reduced that expenditure, failure point to almost zero.

Well aware of what the FSM calls for, have done and payed for that many times. In testing, don't see how it's possible to be consistent, likely those who wrote it didn't foresee loads like 37" tires, big lifts, wheeling like some of us do, etc. It's a case of detecting weakness, loose = weak, tight = strong, learning what works better, real world experience that the FSM writers likely didn't have.

 

[Tools R Us]

...
I ran the green grease in it and frequently had WB problems. ...

What Green Grease? The stuff that is often talked about here is a brand name, relatively new, really good stuff, have had zero problems with it in wheel bearings. That said, it's over kill for wheel bearings, like way, we use it for u-joints, the best commonly available stuff we have found. The grease needs for wheel bearings is relatively pedestrian, we use the stuff from Wally world or whatever.

 

[Tools R Us]

Hopefully you filled the gap between the inner and outer bearings with grease. Some people forget to do this. If not, then the grease can liquefy and run out of the bearing and have inadequate lube. I always fill the center so when I install the hub, I have a big gob on the end of the spindle that I must wipe off.

The cavity in the hub should only be filled to the level of the races. Bearings don't need that much lube, over packing, making the bearings push too much grease is a leading cause of bearing overheating, grease breakdown, etc.

 

[Mountainpassing]

"Well aware of what the FSM calls for, have done and payed for that many times. In testing, don't see how it's possible to be consistent, likely those who wrote it didn't foresee loads like 37" tires, big lifts, wheeling like some of us do, etc. It's a case of detecting weakness, loose = weak, tight = strong, learning what works better, real world experience that the FSM writers likely didn't have."

I have 31" rubber and I dont play in the rocks unless I have to, I find the FSM to still be relevant to my purposes.
In fact when taken together,the FSM,fishscale, etc I have perfect results and can only grade the procedure with a perfect 100 percent success rate.I think they designed the whole thing well.
Then again I don't mind taking all day at it, food for thought .

 

[baldilocks]

Yeah I heard/saw that, but I figured if I'm getting wobble on the wheel and a wheel is loose on the axle, probably 1+1=2.

But sure if this doesn't fix it then I'll hit up the rotors.

The rotors are removed now. Why not just take them to get resurfaced.

 

[DirtScaresMe]

The rotors are removed now. Why not just take them to get resurfaced.

I live in bfe, the closest place to do that is an hour away.

 

[mudgudgeon]

Wobble felt while braking can be associated with warped rotors.

Loose wheel bearings can also show up as a shudder through the brakes

 

[Tools R Us]

Loose wheel bearings can also show up as a shudder through the brakes

Also long pedal, will knock the pads back taking more pedal travel to push them back to rotor contact.

 

[Qball]

I live in bfe, the closest place to do that is an hour away.

Or just get new rotors from amazon or eBay? I have centric rotors and they are smooth as glass!

 

[DirtScaresMe]

Or just get new rotors from amazon or eBay? I have centric rotors and they are smooth as glass!

I'll probably get some new rotors at some point but right now my brakes are okay-enough. The whole rig drives like a tractor (compared to the subaru imprezza I buzz around in as well) so my expectations are fairly low.

Next summer I want to get:

• Harrop lockers
• Re-geared
• Bigger tires
• New rims
• New super cool drilled out rotors
• I'll do a brake job

But headed into this winter I've got the wobble out, oil changed recently, and hopefully nothing else that will cause me problems in the middle of a snowstorm. Come November in the mountains one best have all their projects done. It was a miracle we had a few warm days here before the fun starts back up.

 

[wardharris]

I'll probably get some new rotors at some point but right now my brakes are okay-enough. The whole rig drives like a tractor (compared to the subaru imprezza I buzz around in as well) so my expectations are fairly low.

Next summer I want to get:

• Harrop lockers
• Re-geared
• Bigger tires
• New rims
• New super cool drilled out rotors
• I'll do a brake job

But headed into this winter I've got the wobble out, oil changed recently, and hopefully nothing else that will cause me problems in the middle of a snowstorm. Come November in the mountains one best have all their projects done. It was a miracle we had a few warm days here before the fun starts back up.

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