Real Time Rear Brake Help Needed

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TequilaMechanic

TequilaMechanic

Joined
Aug 26, 2023
Threads
8
Messages
128
Location
USA
I’m experiencing a horrible sounding rear brake after completing a brake job. Sound is bad enough I can’t drive the car.


I replaced the rotors (OEM) and pads (OEM) on the rear brakes. Brake caliper pins were removed and replaced with OEM. Calipers were reused and pin bores were cleaned and regreased. Installed new pin boots (external). I removed the old parking brake bell crank and replaced it with new OEM. I have entirely backed off on the parking brake adjustment star washer and I can spin the rotor but it takes two hands and some effort (with entire rear jacked up). It sounds like there is some rubbing.


First test drive I could hear lots of rubbing on the rear. I found tons of brake dust on the right rear caliper bracket and thought the pads were not retracting. I put brake grease on the metal shims on the mounting bracket. I also loosened the parking brake star washer. I can pull off the rotor but have to use bolts to unseat it. I probably drive the bolts in 1/8” before I can remove the rotor by hand.


Second test drive I could also hear pads dragging. I don’t notice it in reverse, but it’s noticeable when going forward. Unconcerning amount of brake dust found.


So next I took off the rotor and put the tire on and spun it gently, one handed starting at 12 o clock position and releasing at 3 o clock. The wheel stops around 5 o’clock. Then I put on the rotor and the wheel and repeated. The wheel stops before getting to the 3:30 position, sizeable difference. Repeated after disconnecting the parking brake cable and still stopping before 3:30. Seems like my parking brake shoe is the issue since I’m expecting it should be pretty easy to spin my rotor and it’s not.


Looking for advice if I’m overlooking something obvious. Also looking for advice on next steps. Seems like maybe I warped the parking brake shoes during the removal of my rusty rotor and the pads are contacting my rotor causing my issues.
 
Recheck the springs within the parking brake mechanism as well as the connections at the back of the “dust cover” where the bell crank is situated … a really analog system. Good luck
 
Second this - sounds like the new bell crank is impacting your parking brake and not releasing. Also check the parking brake cables, if they are too tight and not letting it release.
 
Still stumped. Found my top springs were installed opposite (more coils goes on the front brake shoe). Even with the parking brake cable disconnected and star washer all the way loose, I have friction. Everything else seems to match my drivers side. Any ideas?
 
I had a similar issue (couldn’t get the rotor back on in my case) … turned out to be the bell crank at the bottom that just wasn’t quite seated properly … jiggle it around a bit, you’ll feel when it slots into place. Good luck

I think the 100 and 80 series share the same system so don’t restrict your searches to just 100 series forums/posts

PS. Is your dust cover badly rusted? Ie is the bracket that your cable attaches to on the back of the dust cover tearing away?
 
Pictures of e-brake shoe and assembly, with rotor off?

Pictures of fitting kit and pads in caliper.

Brake dust covers are known to be rubbed by rotors drum. Look for rub marks on dust shield.

Not being able to pull rotor/drum off, without two bolts to press out. Indicates wheel hub rusty. We should always deglazed (de rusted) all mating surfaces. It's important all crud be removed, without removing any metal from hub. Then axle and hub are runout with a dial gauge, to insure within spec. I mark readings on hub. Then rotor installed with lugs, runout and record readings, removed and turned to next lug and runout again. Repeat for the 5 position (5 lugs) and then place rotor on best point/lugs and mark rotor to hub position.
 
2001LC said:
Pictures of e-brake shoe and assembly, with rotor off?

Pictures of fitting kit and pads in caliper.

Brake dust covers are known to be rubbed by rotors drum. Look for rub marks on dust shield.

Not being able to pull rotor/drum off, without two bolts to press out. Indicates wheel hub rusty. We should always deglazed (de rusted) all mating surfaces. It's important all crud be removed, without removing any metal from hub. Then axle and hub are runout with a dial gauge, to insure within spec. I mark readings on hub. Then rotor installed with lugs, runout and record readings, removed and turned to next lug and runout again. Repeat for the 5 position (5 lugs) and then place rotor on best point/lugs and mark rotor to hub position.
Click to expand...


Here’s a photo dump of the install. I can already see some scoring inside the brand new rotor. This side was pretty rusty so maybe more wire brushing is in order, will start there. Thanks!

IMG_1735.webp
IMG_1734.webp
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looks like you have rubbing in a few places, pic 2 you can see where the back side of the rotor is rubbing the backing plate and in the top pic looks like the parking brake shoes are making contact.

did you clean off the rotors before you installed them, ive seen the rotors stick to the parking brake due to the anti rust crud that the rotors get coated with.

if the star adjuster isnt fully seated between the shoes it can hold the shoes out just enough to where the rotor will slip on and cause a drag.

how do the spring cups look, ive had them where the hold down pin is starting to pull through and that will usually cock the shoe a bit to where the rotor will slip on then be very difficult to remove and also cause the parking brake to drage
 
bigredmachine said:
also that top bar below the spring anchor between the shoes is notched to only go on one way or itll hold the parking brake arm out and will act like the parking brake is on
Click to expand...
Yeah I think the dog bone is good, spring side facing rear of vehicle. Gap shown in notch looks the same as my before picture.
IMG_1736.webp
 
i would double check and make sure that everything is seated before i took it apart again. im guessing that you did one side at a time so you could reference back which would eliminate swapping the wrong parts side to side. bell cranks are a left and right only but they have an l or r stamped in them so thats easy to check and the blocks will only bolt up on the correct side. it sounds like something is holding the parking brake shoes out a little bit
 
bigredmachine said:
looks like you have rubbing in a few places, pic 2 you can see where the back side of the rotor is rubbing the backing plate and in the top pic looks like the parking brake shoes are making contact.

did you clean off the rotors before you installed them, ive seen the rotors stick to the parking brake due to the anti rust crud that the rotors get coated with.

if the star adjuster isnt fully seated between the shoes it can hold the shoes out just enough to where the rotor will slip on and cause a drag.

how do the spring cups look, ive had them where the hold down pin is starting to pull through and that will usually cock the shoe a bit to where the rotor will slip on then be very difficult to remove and also cause the parking brake to drage
Click to expand...
Good point about the spring cups. Nothing about my components are inspiring confidence at the moment. Pins are rusty, the outer cups may be deformed, the springs are old. It does look like the shoes are sitting on the plate correctly but I’m sure a refresh isn’t costly.

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Your shoe aren't making a good flush contact. You may have aftermarket shoes.

New rotor/drums, need bedding in. Pull on hand brake at ~25 to 35 MPH, while holding in release button. Do not come to a stop with E-brake or use when parked, while drums hot.. Repeat 3 times.

46550H P/N diagram above, is a shim (6 or 8 sizes available). That's a gap needs checked/set, by using proper thickness shim. Not likely your issue, just make note of.

Look for rub/shiny marks on backing plate. I think I see shinny!

IMG_1724.jpeg


The points (raises) where shoes contact backing plate, need grease (Toyota Disk brake grease).

Try pull hard on e-brake handle, with drum on. Release and remove drum/rotor. See if dog bone then is seated.

I use Nylon 2" cup wheel & 4" wheel, to clean crud off hub, to nice clean metal. Then runout hub & axle, with dial gauge.
 
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2001LC said:
Your shoe aren't make a good flush contact. You may have aftermarket shoes.

New rotor/drums, need bedding in. Pull on hand brake at ~25 to 35 MPH, while holding in release button. Do not come to a stop with E-brake or use when parked, while drums hot.. Repeat 3 times.

46550H P/N diagram above, is a shim (6 or 8 sizes available). That a gap needs checked/set, by using proper thickness shim. Not likely your issue, just make note of.

Look for rub/shiny marks on backing plate. I think I see shinny!

View attachment 3658426

The points (raises) where shoes contact backing plate, need grease (Toyota Disk brake grease).

Try pull hard on e-brake handle, with drum on. Release and remove drum/rotor. See if dog bone then is seated.

I use Nylon 2" cup wheel & 4" wheel, to clean crud off hub, to nice clean metal. Then runout hub & axle, with dial gauge.
Click to expand...
While I didn’t replace the shoes, there is a lot of rust on everything on the leading side of the assembly. The shoes look flush but if the rotor is cocked like we’re thinking it’s plausible the shoes are rested on raises that are rusty and not original thickness. The rust could be cocking the shoe or extreme rust could prevent the spring retraction and have the assembly enlarged I suppose. Sounds like a tear down is in order to get to the raises for cleaning and greasing.

Thank you!
 
I took my pass side rear apart yesterday to find the source of an intermittent clicking noise i had while driving slow. I suspected it was parking brake binding slightly . By the way my "dog bone" has a gap like yours and I think that is normal. I cleaned and brake greased every thing that has contact point. When I went to put it back together I had too much friction despite having the star retracted all the way and everything looks seated. I end up gently tapping the shoes and assembly with a soft raw hide hammer and something seated and I slipped the rotor on without any interference at all. I put a couple lug nuts on to keep the rotor true and then adjusted the parking brake star. My clicking is gone. Good luck with your brake tear down, it's probably something hanging or binding a bit.
 
2001LC said:
Your shoe aren't make a good flush contact. You may have aftermarket shoes.

New rotor/drums, need bedding in. Pull on hand brake at ~25 to 35 MPH, while holding in release button. Do not come to a stop with E-brake or use when parked, while drums hot.. Repeat 3 times.

46550H P/N diagram above, is a shim (6 or 8 sizes available). That's a gap needs checked/set, by using proper thickness shim. Not likely your issue, just make note of.

Look for rub/shiny marks on backing plate. I think I see shinny!

View attachment 3658426

The points (raises) where shoes contact backing plate, need grease (Toyota Disk brake grease).

Try pull hard on e-brake handle, with drum on. Release and remove drum/rotor. See if dog bone then is seated.

I use Nylon 2" cup wheel & 4" wheel, to clean crud off hub, to nice clean metal. Then runout hub & axle, with dial gauge.
Click to expand...
When you're checking runout, are you checking the face where the rear brake discs grab?
 
TequilaMechanic said:
Pins are rusty, the outer cups may be deformed, the springs are old. It does look like the shoes are sitting on the plate correctly but I’m sure a refresh isn’t costly.
Click to expand...


rusty pins arnt really a problem because they just sit there to hold tension unless their rusting out to the point that their thinning out and can break easy. check to make sure that the pins are straight, you have one straight pin and one bent pin. straight pin should be straight and you can check that by doing the roll test. make sure that it rolls evenly on a flat surface and for lack of a better description dosnt settle in one spot. the bent pin can straighten out a bit if you have to force the rotor off and will cause the shoe to not sit flush on the backing plate. those i would get a little bend back in them with a few taps from a hammer and holding them in a vice. you should be able to get a generic hardware kit for about 25-30$ no need to get anything from the dealership on this one unless your really in a bind and thats the only place that has it
 
Just did my rear brakes yesterday. From looking at your pictures the hub faces that sit against the rotors are rusty. Wire wheel all that stuff off. Clean up the outer bore of the hub that sticks through the rotor as well. Make sure the mating surfaces are clean. Then push the rotor on and give it a few small taps with a rubber mallet to ensure it's fully seated on the hub. As someone mentioned above, lugs nuts to hold it in place while you assemble the pads and caliper.

I had a rubbing sound before seating them fully. Once fully seated it was quiet and smooth rotations.

So Yes, it could be the parking brakes causing this, but it could also be the much simpler fix described above.

To adjust parking brake, once rotors are on and fully seated. per FSM turn star wheel until parking brake pads are tight against rotor. Then back off (loosen) star wheel 8 turns (not complete revolutions, every time you click the wheel up or down with the screwdriver is a turn. Probably only equates to 2 or 3 full revolutions of the star wheel. Followed this FSM method and parking brake worked perfectly with no drag on brakes, first try.

Good luck!
 
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LJE said:
When you're checking runout, are you checking the face where the rear brake discs grab?
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Runout is check on face of wheel hub, between lugs bolt and outer edge. We also by pushing and pulling hub/axle, while dial gauge still on face of hub. Then move dial gauge to out edge of wheel hub. Then lift hub into dial gauge.

Keep in mind. To check runout, surface must be clean. We must not remove metal (get sparks) as we clean. Or runout can't be checked. In addition, wheel hub can't have been pounded on, which warps the surface.

This pictures of front rotor runout, was handy. Hubs are runout the same way, before running-out the rotors disk.

Brake rotor disk front.JPG
 
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