How did the clearance for the panhard bar go
Radius Arm Flip
- Thread starter adventr
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- Thread starter
- #122
It's really close, and I had to grind a little off of the "rounded nose" of the radius arm, but so far it hasn't touched.
If you look closely, my panhard isn't perfectly parallel with my draglink. The axle end of the panhard actually needs to go up a tad to make them parallel. That works out for me, as I plan to raise the axle mount for the panhard about 1" to gain more clearance between it and the radius arm.
Thats good to know thanks
Blah blah blah
blah blah blay
so, when you're all done, basically you're saying
Sooo clean... It's a thing of beauty Tim! Well done.
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- Thread starter
- #126
Thanks Shawn! It looks a lot better after I scrubbed the axle clean and painted everything. I'll try to snap some more pics today!
Great work OP... this is now on my "to-do" list if I ever go that big on a lift.
I find all the side discussion about control arm motion entertaining. This community is full of opinions, that's for sure!
I find all the side discussion about control arm motion entertaining. This community is full of opinions, that's for sure!
So, this could very well be done to a 4" or 6" lift so as long as you set the axle and weld the brackets at the right angles ?
N do away with caster brackets and bushings ??
Looks very clean BTW !!!
Great job!!
N do away with caster brackets and bushings ??
Looks very clean BTW !!!
Great job!!
Ever get it checked?
Hi guys, I too have flipped my arms here in aus. It was mostly out of curiousity as there was lots of conflicting info floating around the net. It is a definate improvement with hardly any ill affects. Happy to answer any questions also.
Hi guys, I too have flipped my arms here in aus. It was mostly out of curiousity as there was lots of conflicting info floating around the net. It is a definate improvement with hardly any ill affects. Happy to answer any questions also.
How did you conversion technique differ from Tims?
A definite improvement in what?
How much lift are you running?
Any better pictures?
Tim if you view this as a Hi-jack we can take it to a new thread - LMK
- Thread starter
- #133
Looks great! I like how you added the truss to the top of the axle and raised the panhard mount. That's an excellent way to do it since you have a high-steer setup!
- Thread starter
- #134
More info in here, the better! Keep it going, guys.
There was a definite lack of info whenever I decided to do this project. Hopefully this thread will help out others in the future.
There was a definite lack of info whenever I decided to do this project. Hopefully this thread will help out others in the future.
Thats exactly right. Most of the info was hear say from people who have never done it. And most say it makes no difference at all. Thanks tim, Ill give the quick run down on what I did with mine so everyones on the same page. Hope you dont mind.
How I flipped mine. Im running a 5" lift and 35's. The first thing I did was make a jig to dial in caster perfectly (+3 degrees).
I was already running superflex radius arms but wanted to try something new that handled the best on the road. 3/4/5 y link etc was out for me.
Factory arms bolted in to gauge correct factory caster (aswell as a dial gauge on the axles)
S is for stock.
When lifted the wheels pull back under the truck towards the rear. With after market arms the push the housing forward by 20mm to correct wheel possition. So I made a sliding scale for lift height to correct this anything upto 8".
With front bolt removed.
Set to 5".
This in turn pulled the arms back a little on the housing.
Which isnt a bad thing, because I found if it was in the correct possition to the housing it would foul on the panhard mount. This is also why I cancelled getting after market arms cut myself.
8mm flat plate mounts cut and welded. I opened them at the to to allow for twist.
It made the side closest to the diff centre rise up another 10mm away from the axle centre. So this was copied on the other side aswell. Ill show you why in a minute.
Raised panhard mounts 5".
Braced it for jumping.
And also added a hellfire high steer. It lines up perfectly on the angles and geometry is as close to stock as you can get.
It drive absolutely beautifuly. No bump steer, and handles the bumps extremely well. The difference in handle the small bumps is the same as going from 31" tires, to 35" tires. Thats the feeling anyway. Only downside was a tiny bit more body roll. Which new shocks fixed.
Hope this explains why.
So if you drawer a line between the lower arm bushs and measure that line to the axle centre. That tells you how far from the centre it disects. If it disected the middle of the axle centre itself, the flipping the arm would make no difference apart from diff clearance. But it doesnt.
So flipping the arm doubles that distance from stock possition (x+x=y) I found this to be just over 4". So by raising it another 10mm it is almost perfect 5". So with the panhard and highsteer set to 5" also. It almost stock again.
So the ride relates to delflection in the bush's or regression. In stock form the wheel wants to come backwards and down as the bump is forcing it upwards. Giving a bouncing feel. When flipped it wants to come backwards and up, the same way to bump is forcing it. The point has been made that when you hit a pot hole its working the same as factory. But it feels a hell of alot better ride with the bumps smoother. Adjusting rebound on your shocks easily eliminates it.
Flex. I have just fit my fox shocks and currently tuning them. Im having trouble maxing out the suspension in the front. The very first test of flex was suprising to say the least. The front flexed so easily and effortlessly, like the rear. I had to ask what the front was doing to my spotter. As I had limited feedback through the car itself. Im running 14" shocks in the front and 12" in the rear. pics to come after shocks are tuned.
I was already running superflex radius arms but wanted to try something new that handled the best on the road. 3/4/5 y link etc was out for me.
Factory arms bolted in to gauge correct factory caster (aswell as a dial gauge on the axles)
S is for stock.
When lifted the wheels pull back under the truck towards the rear. With after market arms the push the housing forward by 20mm to correct wheel possition. So I made a sliding scale for lift height to correct this anything upto 8".
With front bolt removed.
Set to 5".
This in turn pulled the arms back a little on the housing.
Which isnt a bad thing, because I found if it was in the correct possition to the housing it would foul on the panhard mount. This is also why I cancelled getting after market arms cut myself.
8mm flat plate mounts cut and welded. I opened them at the to to allow for twist.
It made the side closest to the diff centre rise up another 10mm away from the axle centre. So this was copied on the other side aswell. Ill show you why in a minute.
Raised panhard mounts 5".
Braced it for jumping.
And also added a hellfire high steer. It lines up perfectly on the angles and geometry is as close to stock as you can get.
It drive absolutely beautifuly. No bump steer, and handles the bumps extremely well. The difference in handle the small bumps is the same as going from 31" tires, to 35" tires. Thats the feeling anyway. Only downside was a tiny bit more body roll. Which new shocks fixed.
Hope this explains why.
So if you drawer a line between the lower arm bushs and measure that line to the axle centre. That tells you how far from the centre it disects. If it disected the middle of the axle centre itself, the flipping the arm would make no difference apart from diff clearance. But it doesnt.
So flipping the arm doubles that distance from stock possition (x+x=y) I found this to be just over 4". So by raising it another 10mm it is almost perfect 5". So with the panhard and highsteer set to 5" also. It almost stock again.
So the ride relates to delflection in the bush's or regression. In stock form the wheel wants to come backwards and down as the bump is forcing it upwards. Giving a bouncing feel. When flipped it wants to come backwards and up, the same way to bump is forcing it. The point has been made that when you hit a pot hole its working the same as factory. But it feels a hell of alot better ride with the bumps smoother. Adjusting rebound on your shocks easily eliminates it.
Flex. I have just fit my fox shocks and currently tuning them. Im having trouble maxing out the suspension in the front. The very first test of flex was suprising to say the least. The front flexed so easily and effortlessly, like the rear. I had to ask what the front was doing to my spotter. As I had limited feedback through the car itself. Im running 14" shocks in the front and 12" in the rear. pics to come after shocks are tuned.
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For those that dont already know what superflex radius arms are.
They are the best on the market here in aus for flex and drivability. So my caster was already correct at +3. But there was still a definate improvement in smoothness due to the control arm bush deflection after the flip. This combined with high steer and panhard (bump steer and rolling centre). Makes it feel perfect.
You are correct about geometry (axle centre to chassi point doesnt change) and arc. But the improvements have to be felt to be understood. It increases travel by just the flip (down travel). There is also more leverage at play. By inverting at the chassi or diff end, it also increases again by further reducing binding.
So everyone is somewhat correct. The only people who are wrong are the ones who say it does nothing at all apart from ground clearance. I can tell you straight away they have never done this mod themselves.
They are the best on the market here in aus for flex and drivability. So my caster was already correct at +3. But there was still a definate improvement in smoothness due to the control arm bush deflection after the flip. This combined with high steer and panhard (bump steer and rolling centre). Makes it feel perfect.
You are correct about geometry (axle centre to chassi point doesnt change) and arc. But the improvements have to be felt to be understood. It increases travel by just the flip (down travel). There is also more leverage at play. By inverting at the chassi or diff end, it also increases again by further reducing binding.
So everyone is somewhat correct. The only people who are wrong are the ones who say it does nothing at all apart from ground clearance. I can tell you straight away they have never done this mod themselves.
- Thread starter
- #138
Wow! Very impressive!
I bet that this mod will start to catch on more here in the states, and abroad. In my mind, its the best way to regain driveability after going with a larger lift. I still put a lot of highway miles on my rig (and intend to keep on), so for me, driveability was a BIG factor in choosing a suspension setup. 3-link would be best for offroad, but it's hard to beat the road manners of a radius arm setup. My cruiser basically drives like a stock cruiser after the filp. I've done several road trips since, and have been very pleased with the way it handles.
Thanks for posting up your setup in here!
I bet that this mod will start to catch on more here in the states, and abroad. In my mind, its the best way to regain driveability after going with a larger lift. I still put a lot of highway miles on my rig (and intend to keep on), so for me, driveability was a BIG factor in choosing a suspension setup. 3-link would be best for offroad, but it's hard to beat the road manners of a radius arm setup. My cruiser basically drives like a stock cruiser after the filp. I've done several road trips since, and have been very pleased with the way it handles.
Thanks for posting up your setup in here!
Sorry I already sold the superflex arms.
This definately will catch on. That small mod I did to mine didnt affect driveability at all. IMO its only a slightly behind factory. And flex, with pictures that speak louder than words.
And beleive it or not. Thats still not maxed or lifting a wheel. The front has more left it in. Ive kept it all under wraps until now. But its the best you can get with a lifted 4x4 for on road manners.
This definately will catch on. That small mod I did to mine didnt affect driveability at all. IMO its only a slightly behind factory. And flex, with pictures that speak louder than words.
And beleive it or not. Thats still not maxed or lifting a wheel. The front has more left it in. Ive kept it all under wraps until now. But its the best you can get with a lifted 4x4 for on road manners.
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