Radiator protection from fan abuse

[mudgudgeon]

@mudgudgeon. They have also gotten chewed doing jumps, its not just water crossings. I will update the thread if there is any contact.

Jumps and nearly 3 tonne of landcruiser is never gonna end well IMHO

Accidentally getting air is unavoidable at times if you're pushing your speed but best avoided whenever possible.

If you like to jump your cruiser on the regular, it's not a question of if you'll screw something up, it's more a question of what & when.

 

[Outsane]

Jumps and nearly 3 tonne of landcruiser is never gonna end well IMHO

Accidentally getting air is unavoidable at times if you're pushing your speed but best avoided whenever possible.

If you like to jump your cruiser on the regular, it's not a question of if you'll screw something up, it's more a question of what & when.

Same with going rock crawling...

 

[tmxmotorsports]

Sorry, I am gonna have to disagree. I have personally seen two different electric fans fail. Both on the trail as it happened. In one case we were able to rob an aux electric off of a rig running it for extra cooling along with the absolutely dependable (and non-damaging potential having) factory CLUTCH fan and use that to keep the injured rig kinda sorta cool enough for the couple opf days back to the trail head and a trailer. In the other case we actually had a replacement fan flown out via a Supercub which landed it on a narrow ridge top strip for us about 70 miles from the trailhead. It was actually cheaper than what it would have cost to get a couple of rigs back to the trail head, back to town and then back to us... and a LOT quicker.
In another instance, it was not really a failure of the fan, but.... at low speeds (trail speeds) the stock alternator in a.... '76 IIRC FJ55 could not put out enough amperage to keep the voltage up and the electric fan (which was the only fan under the hood) was not turning fast enough to cool the engine. and in yet one more ocurrence... a dead alternator on the trail resulted in a rig that could not keep going for long with the fan running off the battery. If he had only had to power the ignition he cold have made it back to the trailhead, but with no real cooling (slow fan speed again) and before long a completely dead battery... nope.

Fortunately for him, a couple of us were running dual batteries and we were familiar with the routine... swap his battery out when it died, toss our secondary in it's place and recharge his in our rig(s) while he drained the fresh one and just rotate the duty around because we could. Kept him on the trail with us for a couple of days with only minor aggravation that way.

Anyway... an electric fan can indeed contribute to and actually be the cause of "stranded".


I AM on board with the concept of an electric fan not damaging the rad

I have seen OEM non-clutch fans damage radiators. I have actually seen GM clutch fans (mounted on swapped in V8s) damage radiators. I have seen the OEM clutch fan on a 3'4 V6 damage a radiator. Both of those clutch fans did the deed when they were suddenly dropped into deep-ish water while at high-ish rpms. (crawling big-ish rock in a creek crossing) They both flexed an impacted immediately before the clutch was overpowered and allowed slippage. Yep, even that heavy duty GM fan!

But... I have never seem an OEM Land Cruiser clutch fan impact a radiator except for in a collision or *maybe* when motor mounts are broken and the rig is still pushed down the trail.

I've run all the older rigs of course. Going back a bit over 40 years now. The past dozen or so years I have spend more and more time on the trail in one of my '80s and I have a several buddies who can say the same. As well as newer guys to the crew who started in '80s. Lots of highway and road miles. Smooth and rough (plenty of both in Alaska and western Canada after all). Lots and lots of trail miles. Again smoth and rough (in other words playing "off road rally boys" sometimes and "flex it all out" crawling occasionally along with all the easy miles). And lots and lots and LOTS of water crossings (not the few inch deep silliness either).
Anyway, the '80s get subjected to real trail use just like all the other rigs (and not just the ones on 38 inch Dick Cepecks and 40 inch Boggers).

If you want a dependable, NOT damage prone and virtually failure proof fan that move the most-est air... OEM clutch fan!

BTW... FOR THE OP!!!

That piece of flat stock that you bridged across the radiator will almost certainly do almost NOTHING to protect your radiator from a fan strike.


Mark...

Mark my post was complete sarcasm because ive had electric fans fail and also destroy my radiator

 

[mudgudgeon]

Same with going rock crawling...

I hear ya, and agree up to a point.

Jumping a cruiser is violent. Rock "crawling" can be slow and controlled most of the time, but yeah, it can be hard on a mass production vehicle for sure

 

[Outsane]

I hear ya, and agree up to a point.

Jumping a cruiser is violent. Rock "crawling" can be slow and controlled most of the time, but yeah, it can be hard on a mass production vehicle for sure

Totally and I don't typically try to jump the 80, but it happens.

 

[Mark W]

Mark my post was complete sarcasm because ive had electric fans fail and also destroy my radiator

Yep... I get that completely. Not sure how I missed it the first time around. Color me embarrassed!


Mark...

 

[tmxmotorsports]

Yep... I get that completely. Not sure how I missed it the first time around. Color me embarrassed!


Mark...

All good

 

[landtank]

I am in the process of replacing an OEM TRAD 16400-66040 in my LX450.
I was on a not so extreme trail and the fan sliced the radiator at the very bottom, a fraction above the seam for the lower tank. I'm still trying to figure out how this happened.
All 3 motor mounts were replaced with new OEM within the last few months. The old ones came out in 2 pieces.
While I was pulling things apart in my driveway, I put a floor jack under the motor and was looking for separation. Saw none. Removed both front motor mounts and inspected. Both looked brand new.

I run a 100% OEM setup, with the exception of a modified OEM fan clutch.
What gets me is that the fan lives behind the lower part of the shroud. I can't imagine the mechanics of how this could have happened.

Ordered a new radiator, mounting hardware, shroud, and fan, All OEM.
Replacing the water pump with a new OEM I had sitting on a shelf, swapping to another modified fan clutch.

I’ve had 2 such slices with a 2row Denso radiator. The problem was 2 fold.

First the bottom radiator mount is a little sloppy and I was able to slide it forward to create a larger gap.

There is a new design for the fan shroud that eliminates the possibility of a fan blade contacting the shroud and being guided into the radiator and slicing the tubes sling the bottom.

 

[lumbee1]

I've been through 4 radiators over 4 years with two being from fan strikes.
The TYC1918 is a thick radiator with superior performance but doesn't like fan tickles. This particular fan strike was from normal driving and the resulting leak was small.
The second fan strike was with a much thinner Denso radiator that replaced the TYC. On the way to work, I hit redline trying to get in front of traffic. This caused the blades to bend forward and tear through the bottom of the rad.

I limped the Cruiser home over 20 miles with no water in the block.

It took me 4 hours and there were many times where the Scangauge was reporting 281* (I think this is the limit of the computer).

The root cause for both TYC and Denso fan strikes was the fan shroud. I was using the original fan shroud that has a curve in the bottom. Under extreme situations, the fan blades would bend and the curve in the bottom of the fan shroud would catch the tip of the blade and drive it into the radiator. The OEM updated fan shroud has squared off profile to prevent this.

Here are the two shrouds side by side looking down at the bottom of the shroud.
OEM on top, updated OEM on bottom

The tips of the fan were able to flex more than two inches to contact the radiator.

 

[jonheld]

I’ve had 2 such slices with a 2row Denso radiator. The problem was 2 fold.

First the bottom radiator mount is a little sloppy and I was able to slide it forward to create a larger gap.

There is a new design for the fan shroud that eliminates the possibility of a fan blade contacting the shroud and being guided into the radiator and slicing the tubes sling the bottom.

I'm also thinking that after 30 years, a new fan isn't the worst idea.
I'm still waiting on delivery, but I want to compare blade angle and protrusion between the old one and new.
In the interim, I'm going to start putting things back together today.

This truck has driven from Jersey to California, from Maine to Florida, almost the entire Trans Canada highway, ran through Pritchett, the Rubicon, and some of the most difficult trails on the east coast. Never once complaining.
I find it almost funny that on what I would consider to be a fairly moderate trail she decides to eat the radiator.

 

[landtank]

I want to clarify something. The slop that I referenced was with the side bolts that attach the radiator itself to the angled mounting bracket.

and don't forget to check for frame cracks.

 

[jonheld]

I want to clarify something. The slop that I referenced was with the side bolts that attach the radiator itself to the angled mounting bracket.

and don't forget to check for frame cracks.

Yea, I assumed that's what you meant. I was able to gain just a bit with the side brackets. I considered drilling out the holes, but opted to leave it be.
Frame looks pretty solid from multiple angles.
Radiator is in along with the new water pump. Filled the system with distilled water and running a pressure test now. Have 2 gallons of Toyota red standing by.
The new fan shroud is definitely different from the old one.
Looks like I'm getting f*cked by FedEx with my new fan. Was supposed to be delivered Thursday, then Friday, now it's in western PA. Maybe by the end of the day??
Didn't want to use the old fan as it has seen better days.

 

[landtank]

The fan only has to flex to catch onto the shroud, Maybe a 1/2 inch. Once there the blade rides along the rim of the lower tank. If you look at the fan at rest at at it's lowest point and measure from there to the top of the lower tank, that's how much blade if cutting into your radiator.

 

[jonheld]

The fan only has to flex to catch onto the shroud, Maybe a 1/2 inch. Once there the blade rides along the rim of the lower tank. If you look at the fan at rest at at it's lowest point and measure from there to the top of the lower tank, that's how much blade if cutting into your radiator.

Yep. I cleaned and inspected the old fan. Not going back on the truck. I'll wait for the new one.

 

[CJF]

On the way to work, I hit redline trying to get in front of traffic. This caused the blades to bend forward and tear through the bottom of the rad. I limped the Cruiser home over 20 miles with no water in the block. It took me 4 hours and there were many times where the Scangauge was reporting 281* (I think this is the limit of the computer).

Jeebus dude.

You really felt there were NO other options to get it home?? Any resulting engine damage you're aware of?

 

[lumbee1]

Jeebus dude.

You really felt there were NO other options to get it home?? Any resulting engine damage you're aware of?

I was frustrated, pissed it happened, but determined to get it home. I ordered a new radiator immediate, swapped out the damaged one, and fired it up. The only other issue was a leaking water pipe. The seal was old so it was expected.

 

[jonheld]

Here are some pictures for your amusement:
Both fans are sitting on blue hubs. There is a significant difference in blade protrusion between the old and new fans. I think after 30 years of sucking 200 degree air, the fan doesn't really owe me anything more.

 

[baldilocks]

Here are some pictures for your amusement:
Both fans are sitting on blue hubs. There is a significant difference in blade protrusion between the old and new fans. I think after 30 years of sucking 200 degree air, the fan doesn't really owe me anything more.

View attachment 4205987

View attachment 4205989

I just got my 96 going, new engine, trans, mild turbo boost, all new under the hood. After running hard up a local hill several times to seat the piston the OEM radiator mounted in new OEM bushings sprung a mysterious leak center bottom. This is after maybe ten miles of driving. After reading this thread I’m thinking the 20k oil in the new blue hub clutch and very good throttle response plus additional power may have caused the new OEM fan to flex forward. I ran 10k oil in a black hub clutch in my 93 for several years with no issues.

What viscosity oil are you running in your fan clutch? I chose 20k based on a good deal of Mud threads I read before switching to the blue hub clutch.

I don’t remember seeing even minute damage to the radiator when I unpackaged it several months ago and have not yet disassembled the cooling system components for inspection.

 

[jonheld]

I just got my 96 going, new engine, trans, mild turbo boost, all new under the hood. After running hard up a local hill several times to seat the piston the OEM radiator mounted in new OEM bushings sprung a mysterious leak center bottom. This is after maybe ten miles of driving. After reading this thread I’m thinking the 20k oil in the new blue hub clutch and very good throttle response plus additional power may have caused the new OEM fan to flex forward. I ran 10k oil in a black hub clutch in my 93 for several years with no issues.

What viscosity oil are you running in your fan clutch? I chose 20k based on a good deal of Mud threads I read before switching to the blue hub clutch.

I don’t remember seeing even minute damage to the radiator when I unpackaged it several months ago and have not yet disassembled the cooling system components for inspection.

I've been running 20k oil for years without issue.

 

[Outsane]

Here are some pictures for your amusement:
Both fans are sitting on blue hubs. There is a significant difference in blade protrusion between the old and new fans. I think after 30 years of sucking 200 degree air, the fan doesn't really owe me anything more.

View attachment 4205987

View attachment 4205989

thats a good picture, and good info