Builds Peter's Ultimate Expo Land Cruiser Build Thread
- Thread starter Behemoth60
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- #62
Meh... I will look into it. The problem is the dash bits to make a LHD A/C unit work. Ironically, here in LHD North America, there are no native A/C parts for 70... only our 15y/o imports have A/C, and lo and behold I happen to have the A/C parts from Fluffy, Lumpy70's hand-me-down parts from the LHD conversion he did on that BJ74.
Along with the RHD A/C box, he also provided the parts list of LHD parts he used to re-A/C Fluffy as a LHD truck, whick were originally figured out by Brett Toothill (What's his forum name?) on his BJ70 after he moved from Calgary to Sacremento all those years ago.
Having spent some time in some deserts, I appreciate that the heat is part of the experience. You will also note that the A/C recommendation is coming from 80 series drivers, not 70 series people, and as we know, those 80's have a soft fleshy underbelly called cup holders and climate control. Which beg's the question, How come they are allowed on this forum anyway?
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Maybe the desert is "part of the experience", but the drive to and from the desert is the painful one.
My two cents...get the A/C.
If you don't want to source and fuddle around with all the 70 series stuff, which after doing myself I totally understand, there are various aftermarket options for probably half the price.
If I were to do it again, I would do this as I would want to regain some dash and engine bay space for numerous accessories.
Google "Hot Rod Air Conditioning", lots of options for that crowd where nothing fits over the shelf.
Some examples:
http://www.oldairproducts.com/catalog/ac-systems-parts/custom-street-rod-ac-units-c-1_32000000.html
http://www.classicautoair.com/trunk-air-conditioner.html
http://www.restomodair.com/ac-systems/
My two cents...get the A/C.
If you don't want to source and fuddle around with all the 70 series stuff, which after doing myself I totally understand, there are various aftermarket options for probably half the price.
If I were to do it again, I would do this as I would want to regain some dash and engine bay space for numerous accessories.
Google "Hot Rod Air Conditioning", lots of options for that crowd where nothing fits over the shelf.
Some examples:
http://www.oldairproducts.com/catalog/ac-systems-parts/custom-street-rod-ac-units-c-1_32000000.html
http://www.classicautoair.com/trunk-air-conditioner.html
http://www.restomodair.com/ac-systems/
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You will also note that the A/C recommendation is coming from 80 series drivers, not 70 series people, and as we know, those 80's have a soft fleshy underbelly called cup holders and climate control. Which beg's the question, How come they are allowed on this forum anyway?
looks like your getting steady progress still. So no cupholders or AC in your ultimate rig then?
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- #65
Beverage in the left hand, gear shift in the right. Steer with the knees. Wipe sweat from your brow with your clutch foot between shifts. That's how it's done in a 70 series boys!
Also in the "my two cents" category: Tires.
There was a discussion on our local list about tire size, and if 49x15 tires were too big for this truck.
My opinion is that the ~40's on Ziplok (Link to picture) are perfect for this expo rig. There was a question as to the winter driveability of the Michelin XL's, but IMO, change tires in winter. The majority purpose of this rig seems to be desert / rocks, so the XL's are your tire.
I personally think that the availability, serviceability, and more importantly the rotational force that those 49's create, would be way to many problems.
Those 40's have gotten Ziplok around everywhere with no issues.
Rant: Completed.
There was a discussion on our local list about tire size, and if 49x15 tires were too big for this truck.
My opinion is that the ~40's on Ziplok (Link to picture) are perfect for this expo rig. There was a question as to the winter driveability of the Michelin XL's, but IMO, change tires in winter. The majority purpose of this rig seems to be desert / rocks, so the XL's are your tire.
I personally think that the availability, serviceability, and more importantly the rotational force that those 49's create, would be way to many problems.
Those 40's have gotten Ziplok around everywhere with no issues.
Rant: Completed.
We also almost came to a conclusion as to what to name this bastard son of toyota sheet metal and dodge's power/drivetrain at lunch...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lg7MAacSPNM
<snip> You will also note that the A/C recommendation is coming from 80 series drivers, not 70 series people, and as we know, those 80's have a soft fleshy underbelly called cup holders and climate control. Which beg's the question, How come they are allowed on this forum anyway?
I think you got Dans attention..
14bolts are way cool and cheap, those parts to build a front end are not cheap but very beef..
Many years back when my shop was next to Northwestfab, Kyle was on the phone with Ian from Extreme 4x4 and at that time they were building up a set of these axles. Turned out great pretty decent cost..
http://www.powerblocktv.com/episodes/XT2011-09/14-bolt-axle-101-low-dollar-wheeler-part-3
Jon had a good time helping you out, I think he is getting the itch to put his cruiser back together..
Rob
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- #70
Indeed, that very video cemented my decision to go with 14bolts front and rear. I did a budget on building the 14Bolt front, and it's not far off what I've come to understand to be the going rate for top quality axles... about $7-10K per end.
No matter what axle you build, if you are doing a top notch build, they are all in that range, including our beloved Cruiser axles. But... after spending that coin, the size and strength of the 14B compared to the Cruiser axle... there's just no comparison...
- Thread starter
- #71
Agreed in principal.
And in fact, my search for a second set of Winter XL's with some screw in studs is what triggered my look at the 395/85R20s (46.4"x15.5, actually). Go ahead and look on ebay for 12.50R20's, and then for 395/85R20's. The 395's are available in all three basic patters, XML, XL, XZL. They are everywhere, and their availability makes them cheaper. The 12.50's are only available in the XL pattern, but rarely. There's just very few 12.50's out there.
So, in principal, I definitely like the 12.50s (40.4"x12.5) and they definitely work well, no question about that. It's the availability of the 395's that have my attention. I need a way to get a pair of those tires for mock up, and mock up with the 12.50's, before I make a defacto decision, me thinks.
Would the 395s use the same width wheel as your 12.5R20s? If so, I would buy a set and check to see if you can make them fit. If not, you should have no troubles selling them to a flat biller for their 1ton ford with stacks.
It's all about risk. I don't think you would be out very much $ if you buy a set to try out and they don't work. You risk a little $ to try to get them to fit. But you could be risking a lot of time and $ if you don't try, and you somehow have tire issues in the Aussie outback, and have to make modifications to fit a set of 395s.
My thoughts are worth exactly what you paid me for them!
It's all about risk. I don't think you would be out very much $ if you buy a set to try out and they don't work. You risk a little $ to try to get them to fit. But you could be risking a lot of time and $ if you don't try, and you somehow have tire issues in the Aussie outback, and have to make modifications to fit a set of 395s.
My thoughts are worth exactly what you paid me for them!
I kind of like the idea of 40's for it, 44's and 46's would be great, but Im not sure if they would be best suited for an expo vehicle, for a wheeler sure, but I would compare pavement time versus trail time. Unless this truck is to be pulled around on a trailer and not really be an expo rig.
This patrol truck posted elsewhere just seems to have the right balance between tires and truck, it's on wide 40" pit bulls:
This patrol truck posted elsewhere just seems to have the right balance between tires and truck, it's on wide 40" pit bulls:
If you can turn them (you can) and if you can stop them (you will) then why not try and make them fit. Like I said in the list, go for it.
I have NEVER been in a situation where I said to myself; "self, I need smaller tires". EVER.
Plus I still want your 40s.
I have NEVER been in a situation where I said to myself; "self, I need smaller tires". EVER.
Plus I still want your 40s.
I thought he was gonna keep them on ziplock.
Another name suggestion for the new rig if your not down with "Zuhl"...
the Zippopotamus! ;p
- Thread starter
- #76
<---You never went wheeling with TippyR, did you?
The thing that is haunting me, though is, that for the past 8 years of rolling on 40's, I've never said to myself "Self, I need bigger tires." The 40's are a fantastic all-round size, you were with me in 2009 when we spent 2 weeks putting 10,000kms on the a set. They are definately expo-able.
The Tire decision is made... I'll stick wiht the Michelin's 12.50R20's as the primary summer expo tire, and just have to get something suitable as a winter tire.
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good choice... now the hunt is on for a set for me Marmaduke! I have been considering a set of toyos in the 40" range but I like those Michelins....
too bad they don't make the M55 in a 40 tire. My favorite winter tire so far that I have had on the Tundra
I have been considering a set of toyos in the 40" range but I like those Michelins....too bad they don't make the M55 in a 40 tire. My favorite winter tire so far that I have had on the Tundra
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- #78
Transmission Conundrum
The Ford version of the ZF S6 is a great transmission. Adpater plates available to the Cummins, only mainstream manual ever built with an integral oil pump and external oil cooler. Unfortuneately, I fell victim to confirmation bias, and when I tried to confirm that the ZF S6 had a 32 spline output and would mate up to the 32 Spline input of the Atlas case I saw for sale, of course the Internet told me what I wanted to hear. Truth is...
The Ford version of the ZF S6 ACTUALLY has a giant 24 spline output, for which Advance Adapters has never made an input for the Atlas as the bearings would be too big for the case.
There is a GM version of the ZF S6. 31 spline output, that will bolt right up to my Atlas if I buy a new input gear for $176. The GM ZF is reported to shift nicer (Better bushings in the shifter), but they deleted the oil pump from their transmission and that led to some longevity problems in their app, and why GM was amung the first to drop a Manual from the light truck line up.
Problem is, the Bell housing on the GM Version is integral to the case, and the bell housing is phycially too small to fit over the Cummins flywheel! Lot's of 'internet talk' about how it might be done. No one's ever done it, as near as I can tell.
I have a call into Blumenthal, the largest ZF rebuilder State-side. Asked if they could build a Hybrid Case... all Ford 7.3 stuff up front, but with GM 31 spline output shaft. They are looking into whether it's possible, and if so, price and delivery for such a creation.
Option B, and probably the realistic option is to go with a ZF S5 5 speed from the 90's Fords. It will mate to both the Cummins and Atlas with available aftermarket parts.
S5 has the same 1st, 4th, and 5th ratios as the 1, 5, 6 ratio's of the S6, just tighter splits between 2, 3 and and an additional 4 in the S6.
The S6 is a Stronger tranny at 650ft-lb rating, compared to the S5's 420/470 rating (depending on year) (Note, my Cummins is rated for 600ft-lbs stock).
And the S6 is heavier... 235 vs 185 lbs.
Both have left and right PTO's, both are all aluminum integral bell housings.
S5's are way more gettable, in fact, there is one in the local Pick 'n Pull yard for $150!!!! I found a used S6 outside Edmonton for $1,700. Price is not necessarily a deciding factor on this project, but 'buildability' sure is!
And yes, I know about the ZF S6 in the medium duty GM trucks with the removable bell housing... still, I can't find evidence that anyone has done the mate of one of those to a Cummins, and I don't want that to be the focus of the project.
I will wait to hear back from Blumenthal, but I think the ZF S5 is the 'realisitc' and 'Buildable' path forward. Truth is that this truck is not for heavy duty pulling, I'll never need the gear splits of the 6 speed, and never really need that tranny cooler. It will be easier to fit under the body, and the I'll have 50lb more weight carrying capacity for an onboard capuccino maker. I've owned a Ford with that S5 transmission, and loved it. Litterally, the only transmission nicer to shift than the Toyota H55f
The Ford version of the ZF S6 is a great transmission. Adpater plates available to the Cummins, only mainstream manual ever built with an integral oil pump and external oil cooler. Unfortuneately, I fell victim to confirmation bias, and when I tried to confirm that the ZF S6 had a 32 spline output and would mate up to the 32 Spline input of the Atlas case I saw for sale, of course the Internet told me what I wanted to hear. Truth is...
The Ford version of the ZF S6 ACTUALLY has a giant 24 spline output, for which Advance Adapters has never made an input for the Atlas as the bearings would be too big for the case.
There is a GM version of the ZF S6. 31 spline output, that will bolt right up to my Atlas if I buy a new input gear for $176. The GM ZF is reported to shift nicer (Better bushings in the shifter), but they deleted the oil pump from their transmission and that led to some longevity problems in their app, and why GM was amung the first to drop a Manual from the light truck line up.
Problem is, the Bell housing on the GM Version is integral to the case, and the bell housing is phycially too small to fit over the Cummins flywheel! Lot's of 'internet talk' about how it might be done. No one's ever done it, as near as I can tell.
I have a call into Blumenthal, the largest ZF rebuilder State-side. Asked if they could build a Hybrid Case... all Ford 7.3 stuff up front, but with GM 31 spline output shaft. They are looking into whether it's possible, and if so, price and delivery for such a creation.
Option B, and probably the realistic option is to go with a ZF S5 5 speed from the 90's Fords. It will mate to both the Cummins and Atlas with available aftermarket parts.
S5 has the same 1st, 4th, and 5th ratios as the 1, 5, 6 ratio's of the S6, just tighter splits between 2, 3 and and an additional 4 in the S6.
The S6 is a Stronger tranny at 650ft-lb rating, compared to the S5's 420/470 rating (depending on year) (Note, my Cummins is rated for 600ft-lbs stock).
And the S6 is heavier... 235 vs 185 lbs.
Both have left and right PTO's, both are all aluminum integral bell housings.
S5's are way more gettable, in fact, there is one in the local Pick 'n Pull yard for $150!!!! I found a used S6 outside Edmonton for $1,700. Price is not necessarily a deciding factor on this project, but 'buildability' sure is!
And yes, I know about the ZF S6 in the medium duty GM trucks with the removable bell housing... still, I can't find evidence that anyone has done the mate of one of those to a Cummins, and I don't want that to be the focus of the project.
I will wait to hear back from Blumenthal, but I think the ZF S5 is the 'realisitc' and 'Buildable' path forward. Truth is that this truck is not for heavy duty pulling, I'll never need the gear splits of the 6 speed, and never really need that tranny cooler. It will be easier to fit under the body, and the I'll have 50lb more weight carrying capacity for an onboard capuccino maker. I've owned a Ford with that S5 transmission, and loved it. Litterally, the only transmission nicer to shift than the Toyota H55f
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- #79
now the hunt is on for a set for me Marmaduke!
Called Berg Supply, where I got my last set of 12.50R20's. He confirmed that they are no longer available, and the supply dried up about 2 years ago, right when I ordered my last set. The Military is goin with singles on the trucks in those 46" 395/85R20 size I was talking about. Available in all tread patters, and even in different brands, like the Goodyear MVT which is equivalent to the Michelin XZL.
There's a 41/14.50R20 Irok Radial. That would be a great tire. I do like the Iroks, especially as a winter tire. Those would look good.
I think the 39.5x13.50R17LT are going to make there way to my garage....
