Cruiserdrew said:
Andrew can you clarify your pan hard mod? Did you use an adjustable one or drop the bracket? And what did you use for a set up on the location of your rear axle?
Panhard adjusting
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Andrew can you clarify your pan hard mod? Did you use an adjustable one or drop the bracket? And what did you use for a set up on the location of your rear axle?
Junk
Mod Emeritus
Lowering the front arms like that is just frickin nuts in my book unless you are strictly targeting poserboys.
Guess I just don't buy into the sales pitch.
Guess I just don't buy into the sales pitch.
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I'm keeping a foot in both camps ... suppose I could always dip my lowering brackets in teflon , right ? 
But Junk may have a valid point . If the lowering is not best on the rocks , you might find 'posers' as you call them opting for the kits . Not saying they will be the largest buying segment , but there is a big world out there .. not everyone spends life crawling ... sometimes function takes a back seat to form ... imagine *gasp*
TY
But Junk may have a valid point . If the lowering is not best on the rocks , you might find 'posers' as you call them opting for the kits . Not saying they will be the largest buying segment , but there is a big world out there .. not everyone spends life crawling ... sometimes function takes a back seat to form ... imagine *gasp*
TY
Cruiserdrew
On the way there
LandCruiserPhil said:
I just used the weld in spacers from Slee Offroad. To measure, I measured the side of the tire to the spring and set it equal on both sides. The drop bracket looks trick but it isn't adjustable. The weld in spacers can be adjusted to accomidate everything from stock to 6 inches.
I think that the adjustment of the panhard rod is not for when the truck is at rest but for when you stuff one side. It's important that when you stuff one side that the tire ends up in the middle of the wheel well. To do this you remove your springs and then lift the axle with the tires up against your bump stops and then adjust the panhard so that the axle is centered in the truck. If you center the axle as it sits in your driveway it will be to far to one side on a stuff it create a rubbing problem.
The amount of adjustment needed would depend on what size tires you are running. The larger the tires the lower the bumpstops need to be dropped and the more adjustment is needed.
Ideally you want the panhard rod to be parrallel to the axle/frame when the axle is against the stops which is where the drop bracket is a better choice, however that braket would only work for one situation which might not be your's. Even though Christo's solution is not ideal it is probably overall a better choice.
The amount of adjustment needed would depend on what size tires you are running. The larger the tires the lower the bumpstops need to be dropped and the more adjustment is needed.
Ideally you want the panhard rod to be parrallel to the axle/frame when the axle is against the stops which is where the drop bracket is a better choice, however that braket would only work for one situation which might not be your's. Even though Christo's solution is not ideal it is probably overall a better choice.
Yes, the angled panhard can cause one side to rub and not the other. However it should be adjusted for ride height and not for flex. Rubbing should be addressed in other ways.
With the front axle moved one way and the rear the other, you tend to get steering anomalies where the truck does not steer the same when turning left and right. I would rather have the truck steer properly at high speed on the road, than have my tire exactly centered when flexed up.
Yes, parallel panhard would be best, just not as easy to accomodate all lifts with a single bracket.
And also just fyi for Tyler, this can only work in the rear, do not ever attempt to drop the front panhard, unless you drop the draglink as well.
With the front axle moved one way and the rear the other, you tend to get steering anomalies where the truck does not steer the same when turning left and right. I would rather have the truck steer properly at high speed on the road, than have my tire exactly centered when flexed up.
Yes, parallel panhard would be best, just not as easy to accomodate all lifts with a single bracket.
And also just fyi for Tyler, this can only work in the rear, do not ever attempt to drop the front panhard, unless you drop the draglink as well.
Just to be sure that people understand what I'm saying I thought I'd try to post it in a comparison type chart. These numbers I think are close so you get the idea.
1. OME 2.5" lift 33" tires No bumpstop drop no panhard adjustment
2. 4" lift 35" tires 2" bumpstop drop panhard adjustment needed
3. 6" lift 37" tires 3" bumpstop drop panhard adjustment needed
because there was no adjustment with the OME lift there is 2.5" of error in the axles rest position over that of a stock truck
Since we have adjusted the 4" lift to a bumpstop that has been dropped 2" we have 2" of error over the stock truck
And with the 6" lift adjusted to a bumpstop that has been dropped 3" we have 3" of error over stock
This error is in inches of drop of the panhard rod and not the side shift in axle placement. But I think it does illustrate that the 4" w/35" tires would produce a better driveability than that of the standard OME lift and the 6" lift would not be that far off either.
Now if you were to go with:
6" lift 35" tires 2" bumpstop drop that would give you 4" of error over the stock truck and then probably really effect it's ride quality.
Personally might sights are and always have been on a 4" lift.
1. OME 2.5" lift 33" tires No bumpstop drop no panhard adjustment
2. 4" lift 35" tires 2" bumpstop drop panhard adjustment needed
3. 6" lift 37" tires 3" bumpstop drop panhard adjustment needed
because there was no adjustment with the OME lift there is 2.5" of error in the axles rest position over that of a stock truck
Since we have adjusted the 4" lift to a bumpstop that has been dropped 2" we have 2" of error over the stock truck
And with the 6" lift adjusted to a bumpstop that has been dropped 3" we have 3" of error over stock
This error is in inches of drop of the panhard rod and not the side shift in axle placement. But I think it does illustrate that the 4" w/35" tires would produce a better driveability than that of the standard OME lift and the 6" lift would not be that far off either.
Now if you were to go with:
6" lift 35" tires 2" bumpstop drop that would give you 4" of error over the stock truck and then probably really effect it's ride quality.
Personally might sights are and always have been on a 4" lift.
Rick, are you referring to amounts to drop the panhard? And/ Or bumpstops to prevent rubbing?
Tyler, just remember that when you start modifying the suspension it's not going to handle like the way it does stock. But I think you'll like the gains you get out of it more then the compromises you'll settle for. And I mean the compromises are minimal.
Carl
Carl
I'm assuming that with a stock truck if you were to lift the axle until it hit the stops the axle would then be centered in the truck.
So you put on your larger tires and then drop your bumpstops accordingly to compensate for their larger diameter, lets say 2". Now when you lift the axle back up to the "dropped" stops the axle is no longer centered, you will have to lengthen the panhard rod to compensate for that drop in the stops.
So if you put on a 4" lift and adjust the panhard to a 2" dropped stop you have effectively compensated for half of the axle displacement of the lift, which would be 2", less than that of the OME 2.5" lift. And have the axle in the ideal spot on a full stuff.
It's not a 1:1 error because of the swing in the arm but I was hoping it would help make things clear as to what I was thinking.
So you put on your larger tires and then drop your bumpstops accordingly to compensate for their larger diameter, lets say 2". Now when you lift the axle back up to the "dropped" stops the axle is no longer centered, you will have to lengthen the panhard rod to compensate for that drop in the stops.
So if you put on a 4" lift and adjust the panhard to a 2" dropped stop you have effectively compensated for half of the axle displacement of the lift, which would be 2", less than that of the OME 2.5" lift. And have the axle in the ideal spot on a full stuff.
It's not a 1:1 error because of the swing in the arm but I was hoping it would help make things clear as to what I was thinking.
landtank said:
Rick, I see what you are saying but you mention "one side." Do you mean optimize your suspension to flex for just either the left or ride side? Because you could never adjust both sides to be in the middle of the wheel well unless both sides were compressed the same amount. Each side pivots on different point--one on the frame and one on the axle.
When you put larger tires on the tires will now hit sooner on compression. Hence the need to drop the stops. Normally when the linkage is designed it is designed so when the axle is lifted up to it's limit the panhard rod runs parrallel to the frame. However once you lower the stops it will no longer run parrallel, it will be at an angle. Now that the bar is at an angle the horizontal distance between the two ends of the bar has been shortened and the axle is sitting to one side.
The best way to fix this is to then drop the panhard mount to regain this parrallel postion. The distance between the mounts of the panhard rod is set so that the panhard rod controls both sides of the axle to travel identical paths or archs. By lengthening that rod as Christo does it throws off the balance of the travelled archs because the pivot point on the frame is essentually closer to the wheel now.
The best way to fix this is to then drop the panhard mount to regain this parrallel postion. The distance between the mounts of the panhard rod is set so that the panhard rod controls both sides of the axle to travel identical paths or archs. By lengthening that rod as Christo does it throws off the balance of the travelled archs because the pivot point on the frame is essentually closer to the wheel now.
landtank said:
The axle is centered at ride height, not at compression. However if the panhard rod is horizontal, then any lateral movement will be at it's least for any given up and down travel.
With the rod at an angle, the arc does change as Rick pointed out and the movement will not be symetrical. However axle position at extreme airticulation is not as important as street maners.
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Regardless of where the panhard is mounted the axle will only be centered in one "sweet spot" so the reality is that it is not ever really truly centered because the vehilce is always moving around and the load is constantly changing. Christo's rod enables one to "center" the axle at any given height, no matter the height. A drop-bracket, while returning the arm to a position closer to parallel, is only appropriate for one height.
D-
D-
The rear pan hard is only 1/2 the problem what about the front. Any ideas on how to correct the front without ending up with bump steer? I have one but it wont be cheap need to do a little more research before I post up.
th only way to keep the axle centred at all times would be to manufacture an A Braket lihe the rear mounting on Some rRover products, that is unless a prossesor controlled hydrolic ram was built up. Is that far fetched
Had a look at a stock truck today and thought I'd share some more info with you all.
In stock configuration the panhard rod slopes down toward the drivers side of the vehicle (US). However if the axle were to be lifted to the bumpstops it would then be sloping upwards on the drivers side.
It would seem that there are 2 "sweet spots" where the axle is centered in the vehicle. One at the stops and one at ride height. In between these two spots where the panhard rod is horizontal the axle would sit slightly toward the DS side.
Of course this was in the parking lot at The Home Depot on a somewhat cold day. This is on my list of this to get worked out this summer if I can find the time.
In stock configuration the panhard rod slopes down toward the drivers side of the vehicle (US). However if the axle were to be lifted to the bumpstops it would then be sloping upwards on the drivers side.
It would seem that there are 2 "sweet spots" where the axle is centered in the vehicle. One at the stops and one at ride height. In between these two spots where the panhard rod is horizontal the axle would sit slightly toward the DS side.
Of course this was in the parking lot at The Home Depot on a somewhat cold day. This is on my list of this to get worked out this summer if I can find the time.
Man this is an old thread, but I figured it was better than starting a new one. I just got the OME 2.5 inch lift off of slee. I assumed I wouldn't need anything else besides what came with the full kit. But driving around town or on the highway, my truck feels tipsy, I'm always correcting the steering ever so slightly. I noticed my rear axle is angled more towards the passenger side. Would an adjustable panhard rod from slee fix this?
Centering your axle with an adjustable panhard will not change the feel or the drivability of your LC.
What did you do to adjust your caster when you lifted it?