Okay, Now I'm Completely Convinced: ALL Original HG's Are Actively Failing!

[turbocruiser]

milling is not needed if the head is not warped so in a PM situation it should be optional. taking ten thousandths off increases compression = more oomph but it limits your options if the head blows a second time since maximum milling from stock without adjusting timing chain is about 15 thousandths and we have just witnessed a 9 thousandth warp.

need for a valve job depends on results of a vacuum test by machine shop. I did mine because the 2 centre exhaust valves were on borderline but at 155k all others were perfect and the head shop believed the two were only off as a result of distortion from the warp in the head which I think I had only just picked up.

Out of curiosity, who had the 9 thousandths warp???

 

[Biff]

Doug, does version 3 have the additional footage I missed in version 1?

 

[semlin]

Out of curiosity, who had the 9 thousandths warp???

you did it except i meant 8 thousandths

 

[turbocruiser]

you did it except i meant 8 thousandths

okay, good, technically though, I think the warpage was 7 thousandths and the 8 thousandths of milling was to take the surface to smooth as possible, anyway, okay and good!

 

[cruiserdan]

So Doug, whaddya add to the thing? How much are anal upgrades???

There you go Turbo.......I fixed it for ya.......

 

[turbocruiser]

There you go Turbo.......I fixed it for ya.......

Thanks Dan, you as always are there for me!!!!

 

[Farley]

After reading the latest about head gasket problems I had decided that I wanted to do the HG job as PM. Being that I am a to kind of person I figured I would see if someone (Robbie) would be able to do it for me, but since he is out testing the FJ for the next several months he wouldn't be able to get to my Cruiser until @ December.

I called several other Cruiser and Toyota only specialty shops and dealers up and down the front range of Colorado, from Denver to Fort Collins, and have only found one that would consider, although somewhat reluctantly, replacing the HG as PM. All have pretty much said that unless there is an outward sign of failure they would not, or advise against, removing the head if not necessary. I have been told that either they have never seen a HG fail, or in their 15-20 years in business only had to replace two...

I am guess I am confused at the incidence of failure that is reported on the boards vs. the number of shops, dealers, etc. that never seem to see this kind of problem.

 

[PDoyle]

Hmm, you can always wait until December for Robbie. A smart move, if the people your talking too haven't done but 1 or 2...

 

[turbocruiser]

Hmm, you can always wait until December for Robbie. A smart move, if the people your talking too haven't done but 1 or 2...

I agree, I would wait for Robbie; I think alot of times when specific shops advise you to avoid doing this its because THEY want to avoid doing this due to inexperience or inexpertise. Keep in mind my example as well as the examples of many more here that our HG's WERE actively failing. You have two choices: either catch it ahead of time for less money OR catch it behind time for more money. I would simply baby your beauty and make an appointment with Robbie, he is in your area and he is THE MAN for the job!!!

 

[Farley]

I agree, I would wait for Robbie; I think alot of times when specific shops advise you to avoid doing this its because THEY want to avoid doing this due to inexperience or inexpertise. Keep in mind my example as well as the examples of many more here that our HG's WERE actively failing. You have two choices: either catch it ahead of time for less money OR catch it behind time for more money. I would simply baby your beauty and make an appointment with Robbie, he is in your area and he is THE MAN for the job!!!

Cool - that's pretty much what I was thinking. I want to make sure it is done right, and know that he is the man when it comes to working on these rigs. I had Robbie check out my truck last Jul/Aug and he did the Birf maint on all four corners as well. I am having a compresion and leak down test done this coming week - I realize that it is not the best indicator for HG failure, but it's still piece of mind for me. At this time no bubbles in the overflow, all the plugs looked good when I pulled them last weekend, and am waiting to get some results back from Blackstone any day now.

 

[landtank]

After reading the latest about head gasket problems I had decided that I wanted to do the HG job as PM. Being that I am a to kind of person I figured I would see if someone (Robbie) would be able to do it for me, but since he is out testing the FJ for the next several months he wouldn't be able to get to my Cruiser until @ December.

I called several other Cruiser and Toyota only specialty shops and dealers up and down the front range of Colorado, from Denver to Fort Collins, and have only found one that would consider, although somewhat reluctantly, replacing the HG as PM. All have pretty much said that unless there is an outward sign of failure they would not, or advise against, removing the head if not necessary. I have been told that either they have never seen a HG fail, or in their 15-20 years in business only had to replace two...

I am guess I am confused at the incidence of failure that is reported on the boards vs. the number of shops, dealers, etc. that never seem to see this kind of problem.

First those shops are probably not 80 series savvy, they most likely do older LCs such as 40s and 60s which don't have the failure rate we do.


Second, a 2 banana guy could easily tackle this as a PM. Remember that your truck is running fine so there is no need for experience in being able to recognize issues from being overheated or failing. It's a straight forward R&R of the gasket. The biggest enemy of doing it yourself is not having the time to sort out small procedural miss understandings. If you gave yourself a weeks vacation and started on the first Saturday of that vacation I'm sure mid week you would be done and have a great running truck.

I skipped the machine shop completely as I had no issues prior to tear down. Do an oil analysis and if it comes back clean I'd do the same or if you want to have a shop go through the head, schedule it for that following Monday, that will give you 2 days to get the head off which is easily done.

While it might look overwhelming to you because of the unknown, it's just unbolting a lot of crap, cleaning it up and bolting it back on. Personally I was more nervous on my first birf job than the HG PM.

 

[SUMOTOY]

Rick's idea of an oil analysis is a much better indicator than a leakdown, and is a 2 minute DIY. There are more oil analysis places around than good machine shops. The reports are extremely detailed (since aircraft maintenance depends on them) and can give a very good non invasive indicator/baseline of your engine's condition.


Scott Justusson

 

[Farley]

First those shops are probably not 80 series savvy, they most likely do older LCs such as 40s and 60s which don't have the failure rate we do.


Second, a 2 banana guy could easily tackle this as a PM. Remember that your truck is running fine so there is no need for experience in being able to recognize issues from being overheated or failing. It's a straight forward R&R of the gasket. The biggest enemy of doing it yourself is not having the time to sort out small procedural miss understandings. If you gave yourself a weeks vacation and started on the first Saturday of that vacation I'm sure mid week you would be done and have a great running truck.

I skipped the machine shop completely as I had no issues prior to tear down. Do an oil analysis and if it comes back clean I'd do the same or if you want to have a shop go through the head, schedule it for that following Monday, that will give you 2 days to get the head off which is easily done.

While it might look overwhelming to you because of the unknown, it's just unbolting a lot of crap, cleaning it up and bolting it back on. Personally I was more nervous on my first birf job than the HG PM.

I have thought about approaching this myself. I am planning on ordering a FSM from C-Dan and would most likely also order the HG DVD from Doug as well. Does the FSM show a complete list of tools needed? Most of my tools are standard, not metric so I know I'd be heading to Sears to pick up a new set of wrenches, sockets, etc. Are air tools recommended?

I'm another one who is a bit put off by all of the computers on newer engines. My brother and I used to build 68-72 Oldsmobiles and have tore down more than a few 350's and 455's - which from my limited knowledge seem to be much simpler motors that the 1FZ.

 

[turbocruiser]

Rick's idea of an oil analysis is a much better indicator than a leakdown, and is a 2 minute DIY. There are more oil analysis places around than good machine shops. The reports are extremely detailed (since aircraft maintenance depends on them) and can give a very good non invasive indicator/baseline of your engine's condition.


Scott Justusson

Again, keep in mind that I regularly ran OA's and there was never any coolant anywhere in my oil.

 

[semlin]

am I missing something or isn't there another rather well known shop specializing in 80s in the Denver area other than Robbie that might be able to work on Farley's truck???

 

[Biff]

am I missing something or isn't there another rather well known shop specializing in 80s in the Denver area other than Robbie that might be able to work on Farley's truck???

Semlin,

Are you doing a dvd on your HG work? I think if you do one it would compliment the want that Doug, did. If you do it I'll buy it.

 

[semlin]

heh, sorry no dvd of me cursing in the snow I will try to post up a set of comments at the end to try to point out a few minor details but I couldn't improve on Doug's work. picked up the head today.

 

[Rookie2]

If you gave yourself a weeks vacation and started on the first Saturday of that vacation I'm sure mid week you would be done and have a great running truck.

Are you saying that the simple R&R approach did improve the running of your truck? If so, what would cause that... just the general cleaning?

 

[landtank]

Are you saying that the simple R&R approach did improve the running of your truck? If so, what would cause that... just the general cleaning?

Before my HG I had a little skip in the engine when idling. It wasn't that bad just noticeable. Well after the HG that skip was cured and has been for 70k miles. IdahoDoug had the same experience and he stated a few times prior to that as to how well his cruisers idled because of all the love and attention he gave them with T-Body cleanings, injector cleanings and such.

I personally think that the sealing ring on the #6 cylinder deforms and creates a combustion problem with a hot spot. And since that cylinder feeds the EGR system it would also effect that as well, effecting the O2 sensors readings and so on. Just conjecture on my part but I think if more do this as a PM more will realise improved running engines.

 

[Rookie2]

Okay, sounds good. But you didn't get the injectors cleaned and all that jazz when you PM'd it at 70K... right? If I recall, you had your injectors sent out a few months back.

I'm thinking about just doing the basic R&R, and with 90K on the clock, didn't know if some other items should just be done with it given this is a little lower mileage than most others are doing theirs at.

Thanks,
Rookie2