My $260 E-Pig...Which drive train should I use??!! Sorry kind of long...

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O.K. here she is...actually i guess this one is a he (license plate reads "FAT FRED")
Saw it on E-BAY, description sounded awfull, but it was ten minutes from my house, so I had to go see it...This thing is awesome. '73 with ooold school v-8 conversion (I'll come back to this-need help) but no motor, front disc brake axle from '76 FJ40, 4speed trans and transfer and rear axle from same '76 fj40, Jt Outfitters rear disc conversion (looks NEW), bucket seats, and 4 point cage. There is rust in the usual places, but not anywhere enough to make this a parts truck, and nothing like it was advertised.

This is gonna be my trail truck. I wan't to SOA and run at least 35" tires, power steering, and all that happy horse crap.

Now here's my hang up: I parted out an '89 Chevy Burb several years ago, and have been waiting to find a home for it's TBI 350 (it's going in this truck!), and had planned on keeping it together with the 700r4/np241 and the tilt column and all the wiring and crap ( to kind of keep it plug and play).
The new pig came with an old Downey conversion (chevy bell-5and 1/8th inch hole/ alum adapter plate/ toyota trans & transfer/downey crossmember).

I know I want the overdrive of the 700r4, and that it can climb fairly well (and that it's one of the best 700s...K-case/ electronic lockup). But I also know that no 700 is bullitproof, and I don't know how badly it will lack compression braking (I've never wheeled with an auto that had low range). No compression braking AND lack of trust in reliability kind of = deal breaker.

I don't know anything about the downey adapter from 1980 (I wasn't even born yet) except that they don't make the plates anymore (buy new bellhousing). The kit is still complete and everything looks great. I am kinda thinking of throwing it back together the way it is now, with the h42, and looking for a new tranny down the road (will an sm465 bolt onto the chevy bell I already have?, or would an H55 bolt right onto my adapter plate?) Big tires and H42 = crap, and not being able to reuse anything later is also kind of a deal breaker.

I AM going to put this together with the stuff I already have...
And whichever route I go (auto or manual) will have a totaly different set of issues, and more, or less fab work, but as far as I can tell they both will end up costing about the same in the end. So I just need to make up my mind and go for it. I want to start yesterday.

So the important questions:
1) Would I be able to use the bell (or clutch/slave setup) I have now, for a SM465 later?
2) Would a H55 bolt to (and function with) the old Downey plate?
3) Would either 1 or 2 necesarily affect driveshaft length much (since they are going to get worked over for the SOA...don't want to do it twice)
4) What do YOU think I should do, and/or what would YOU use if you had both drivetrains sitting on YOUR floor?

Thanks guys!
5a09_3.jpg
 
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I'd go with the auto, but aside from the centered rear output, doesn't an '89 sub have a driver side front output, or did they change it in '92? If it's passenger, I'd drop it all in, flip the rear axle upside down to get closer to center, and run it. You won't have great compression braking, but you'll have pretty good crawling, and unless you're on slippery stuff you can use your brakes to help with the compression braking.

btw, nice score on the pig
 
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find a cheap 465 and rebuild it, run the tbi 350, sell your leftovers and buy the adapter to the cruiser case... works for me. The 1st gear in the 465 plus "3-speed" cruiser case gears will get you to about 64:1 ... just about perfect for most trails. Now if you foresee yourself following buggies, truggies, etc. on really hardcore trails... then tbi 350/465/toybox/cruiser case and have stupid low.
 
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scouthead said:
So the important questions:
1) Would I be able to use the bell (or clutch/slave setup) I have now, for a SM465 later?
2) Would a H55 bolt to (and function with) the old Downey plate?
3) Would either 1 or 2 necesarily affect driveshaft length much (since they are going to get worked over for the SOA...don't want to do it twice)
4) What do YOU think I should do, and/or what would YOU use if you had both drivetrains sitting on YOUR floor?

Thanks guys!

1) No. You'd have to use a chevy bellhousing and flywheel plus all the other clutch associated hardware (arm, throw out bearing, input shaft bushing, clutch etc).

2) if the bellhousing is like the later AA bellhousing, and I assume it is if a h42 four speed was bolted behind the 350, then yes. (Edit: If it's the older style I'd source a new bellhousing. PM me if you're interested in one).

3) I cannot comment on driveshaft length for spoa, but the 350/h42 length is fairly short in the front in my experience. I would cut and turn the front axle and run a CV at the 'case end to avoid bind at the transfer case if I was going SPOA.

4) For now, I'd bolt the 350 into the truck with the Toyota drive line to drive it and would start gathering parts for what exactly you want to do with the truck. I'd have the 700R4 beefed, run a Cruiser case, and spring over the truck all at once so I wouldn't be swapping drive lines all the time. If you go sm465, I'd use the longer adapter to get more driveline length in the front.
 
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I would use the 700R4. You can build it plenty strong to handle a stock 350. It would be plug and play like you mentioned. I will probably get flamed for this but wheeling an auto on the trail is so much easier then a manual.

Ryan.
 
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1) No. You'd have to use a chevy bellhousing and flywheel plus all the other clutch associated hardware (arm, throw out bearing, input shaft bushing, clutch etc).

2) if the bellhousing is like the later AA bellhousing, and I assume it is if a h42 four speed was bolted behind the 350, then yes. (Edit: If it's the older style I'd source a new bellhousing. PM me if you're interested in one).


The bellhousing and flywheel and throw-out arm are all GM...there is an adapter plate between the GM bell, and the H42.
And how do you get a quote from someone elses post to be boxed?
 
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I'm not sure if I would want the column shift. It would be cool to keep the origional Toyota column shifter, but my pig doesn't have it,and I'm putting in the suburban Tilt column. And my '90 3/4 ton Burb will sometimes shift itself into nutral when I'm towing a lot of weight (chevy autos have only one tranny mount in the center...can torque over quite a bit). Maybe I could convert the column to use a cable?
I might just stick an Art Carr between the seats and call it good...if I use the auto.

Also, I have a buyer for whichever drive-train I don't end up using...and will probably end up making a hundred bucks or so more than the Pig's purhase price...and I forgot to mention it has BRAND NEW 31 x 10.50 tires on it, and has a 5 pound Halon extinguisher mounted on the cage, warn hubs, couple of Dick Cepek jerry can carriers, 3 unused reman toyota alternators in their boxes, extra driveshafts, a stack of various toyota repair manuals that's about a foot and a half high, rear window works awesome, extra wind-wing...
So I don't know how much closer to free it can get... and still be a good deal.
I'm stoked...just need to get it running!
 
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Sorry Skim,
this 55 hasn't been all toyota since 1980...and I already have a motor...and this is completely off my subject.
And besides if I had the $$ to put a 3FE in an old beater that is already set up to run a chevy, I think I would do the right thing and just throw in a 5.3 Vortec. If I wanted a 3f I'd buy an Fj62 or an 80...but then it wouldn't be that far off from driving my bone stock '76 fj55 with factory air, and who needs power windows anyway (and my 55 just looks so much cooler)

thanks anyways I guess
 
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Having just switched from the Stock 4 speed w/v8 to a 700r4 ill try to give you some of my input..

The stock 4 speed tranny/t-case and 4.11 gears w/35's was a good setup for mild trails, and around town.. I felt the gearing of the tranny was great, and it felt fine going down the steeper stuff..

The 700r4 with a dana 300 t-case (2.7 low range) Is Great for going Slower, and climbing stuff.. i can feather the trottle and brake to get it to hook up on the rocks.. The down side, as of yet is the gearing.. Going to and from the trail, the 4.11 gears just dont match the 700r4's gears.. Id say 4.88's or 5.29's would be great.. I think that with the auto, its less forgiving on your axle ratio choise..

As far as going down hill, the lower gear's either in the t-case of diffs would make a world of difference.. also using the brakes gently is not a horrible thing

keep in mind that going Auto is the most expensive route.. Even if you already have a 700r4 out of a junk car, chances are that its worn to s*** and needs a rebuild.. That starts at about $1000.. Then you need an adapter to a t-case.. (the NP241 is less than desirable), Driveshafts, Spedo Cable, Exhaust, Gearing options. It will all add up

i would not waste the time with the 3fe.. All toyota is cool, but not worth it in the end, you will always have more money into the toyota counterparts for less performance..
 
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Thanks isotel... two questions though...

first-why is the NP241 less than desirable? It's got the same gearing as your Dana 300 (2.73 to 1) weighs a lot less, came in 3/4 ton trucks, came behind the cummins 6bt, is rated to handle more torque than an NP205... and I'm sure it's good and well stronger than any one piece cruiser case... So ?? Just not a fan of chain drive? (I know the adapter and NP241, that I have, will end up about 5 or 6 inches longer than your 700/dana300 setup...but this would be going in a wagon)

Second question...Are you glad you went with the 700r4, or if you could go back and do things differently...NV4500?? H55??
 
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I've been running the 700R4 and the 241 case for 4 years now and have had no problems with it. I have an Aussie locker in the rear and a small block 400 with a liberal skinny pedal. My 241 is clocked up flat by redrilling one hole in the adapter. The only bad thing about the setup is that I had to run a two piece driveshaft to clear the tranny pan.
 
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I've been running the 700R4 and the 241 case for 4 years now and have had no problems with it. I have an Aussie locker in the rear and a small block 400 with a liberal skinny pedal. My 241 is clocked up flat by redrilling one hole in the adapter. The only bad thing about the setup is that I had to run a two piece driveshaft to clear the tranny pan.

Thanks, this is what I need to hear. Did you have to center the rear axle? Slip yoke eliminator? what did you do for a parking brake?

I think I would not bother trying to clock the transfer up on mine, just an excuse to build a sick skidplate...we'll see, I may feel different if it goes in and hangs way the "f" down...

Thought I decided to use the auto the other day, then changed my mind again...So I just started fixing rust holes on the body, and I'll make up my mind about the important stuff after I can think about stuff for a while longer.
Thanks David W...

I think I remember seeing a pic of a couple of pigs parked together in the Toyota Owner mag.... caption labeled one as having sb400/700r4.... That you?
 
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yea i guess the 241 would be ok, but isint it a chain drive with a Slip yoke style rear output.. sorry i dont know that much about them, My decision to go with the d300 was all based on after market support.. when i decide that the stock case is not enough, i can upgrade to 4:1, 32 spline front output (i already have the rear done).. and its got the ability to have front drive only..

i still like the auto!
 
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Yeah, chain drive...and slip yoke rear...
Chain drive is o.k. with me (saw an NP241 under a 1ton cummins dually 4x4 yesterday), the slip yoke will have to go...gonna cost me $300-$400, but still cheaper for me to keep it, than having a shorter shaft put in my tranny, and finding a new case, and a new adapter...Can also get 4:1 planetaries for the 241, and bigger output flanges (rear output shaft is aready 32 spline - don't know about front), but probably mucho $$, for more gearing for a 241...

I would probably go with a 300 also if I didn't already have all this stuff...or if the wheelbase was real short like on a 40 series. Being able to do a front burn would be pretty cool, pretty sure that's not possible with a 241.

And what kind of a parking brake setup do you have Isotel? Can you put a drum or something on a Dana300? And a 300 has a centered rear also right?....
????
 
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