mounting question for 12ht/2h into a 40.

[roma042987]

This is a bit of a confusing question so i'll do my best to elaborate. working on a 75 fj40 with a 2f. Im putting in a h55f/split case and have a late 40 series transmission cross member and some early 60 series brackets that will attach it to the frame. This current set up does not clock the transmission. Here is the kicker im also looking for a 12ht to swap into the 40. Once and if I find a low mileage one the 2f will come out and be attached to the h55f. I will source some hj4x block mounts so the original frame mounts can be used. Here is my dilemma, all of the 2h/12ht bell housings I've come across in the past are aluminum and clock the transmission slightly. So im thinking if I use the trans cross member I've already acquired it will not work with a 12ht with an aluminum bell housing. In my mind im thinking I either A. need to source a late model (post 5/85) 2f bell housing (stamped 3fe) attach it to the 2f and fab up a later model clocked cross member or B. (not even sure it exists) find a 2h unclocked bell housing out of a hj4x which I presume would be cast and pre 1984.
What do you guys think? Am I on point as to this will be an issue or am I missing something?
@orangefj45 @Poser @Radd Cruisers @torfab

 

[alberta mac]

if you can buy a motor why cant you get the tranny ?

 

[roma042987]

if you can buy a motor why cant you get the tranny ?

We do have a trans just can't find a low mileage 12ht at the moment so putting the injected 2f in so I can get him back in the seat

 

[roma042987]

So there is a 2h/12ht 40 series bellhousing that fits the flat early cross member. Here are some photos it is not stamped like the first photo of the 60 series 2h/12ht bellhousing that's stamped HJ

 

[Radd Cruisers]

I have a bellhousing for the 2H/12HT from a 60 series, but finding a 12HT is going to be tough, and they are getting even harder to find - there are none coming in to Canada from Japan anymore as they are too expensive now, and also quite rare. There are number of parts for the 12HT at are getting scarce if you ever need to find spares, a camshaft being one of those NLA parts.

A better consideration for an engine would be the to look at the 1HDT or the 1HZ as they are lots of parts available and good support. There are far more 1HDTs and 1HZs around, for example, than 12HTs and there are more arriving on our shores all the time.

As far as your transmission mounting and things goes, the H55F would need to have the fine splined 1HZ/1HDT input shaft installed, and also the correct bellhousing. And, you're going to have the same clocking issues I suspect.

We don't have any of the older HJ4x bellhousings available.

Just my thoughts on the subject.

~John

 

[Michael B]

John,
I think you have missed the point. Look at the above picture.

Michael <><

 

[HJ45]

Find a 2H HJ47 bellhousing, sits the gearbox straight on rear crossmember, that is what i used, but mine went into a 45.

cheers
HJ45

 

[Will Van]

So there is a 2h/12ht 40 series bellhousing that fits the flat early cross member. Here are some photos it is not stamped like the first photo of the 60 series 2h/12ht bellhousing that's stamped HJ

View attachment 1201539 View attachment 1201540

Is there any easy way to ID whether the bell-housing is "clocked" or "flat"? I assume that the clocked bell-housing is stamped "HJ" and the flat bell-housing is blank, is that correct?

But I see some 2H HJ47 bell housings are stamped "HJ" but I'm not sure if they are flat or clocked?

 

[roma042987]

Is there any easy way to ID whether the bell-housing is "clocked" or "flat"? I assume that the clocked bell-housing is stamped "HJ" and the flat bell-housing is blank, is that correct?

But I see some 2H HJ47 bell housings are stamped "HJ" but I'm not sure if they are flat or clocked?

correct, the clocked bell housing is stamped HJ the early unclocked is not stamped. I believe it will need to be sourced from an HJ45/47 or a pre 10/85 HJ6x. I ended up not using the one I sourced and sold it. Unless you're looking to intall it into a 1980+ 40 series I would not recommend using that one.

 

[Will Van]

correct, the clocked bell housing is stamped HJ the early unclocked is not stamped. I believe it will need to be sourced from an HJ45/47 or a pre 10/85 HJ6x. I ended up not using the one I sourced and sold it. Unless you're looking to intall it into a 1980+ 40 series I would not recommend using that one.

You would not recommend using which one? Clocked or unclocked? Why?

 

[Will Van]

Does anyone know, are the "mounting ears" the same between the HJ45 bellhousing and the FJ40 2F/H41 bellhousing?

Or do I need to source an HJ45 bellhousing and HJ45 mounting ears too?


HJ45 bellhousing

FJ40 2F/H41 bellhousing

 

[nogo]

If you're using the HJ47 2H bellhousing ?...You won't need bellhousing mounts.

 

[roscoFJ73]

Once and if I find a low mileage one the 2f will come out

They keep them in a secret cave guarded by really clever unicorns.
Seriously, i think you might be waiting a few decades. I would buy the cheapest and do a full rebuild or go the 1HZ HD T route, you will finish quicker.
I bought a HJ61 with a rough body but a genuine 300000 klm 12HT with a gearbox replaced under warranty for $2000 in 07. I fixed up a few of the ugly things and sold it straight away for $4000 and went on a holiday. I thought I was so clever

 

[Will Van]

If you're using the HJ47 2H bellhousing ?...You won't need bellhousing mounts.

That is correct. But I’m asking about the HJ45 bellhousing and mounts.

 

[roma042987]

They keep them in a secret cave guarded by really clever unicorns.
Seriously, i think you might be waiting a few decades. I would buy the cheapest and do a full rebuild or go the 1HZ HD T route, you will finish quicker.
I bought a HJ61 with a rough body but a genuine 300000 klm 12HT with a gearbox replaced under warranty for $2000 in 07. I fixed up a few of the ugly things and sold it straight away for $4000 and went on a holiday. I thought I was so clever

That was 4 years ago Rosco! I ended up putting a 12k mile HZ in that truck with the new H55f, full floaters, and cable lockers

But I did find the cave you're talking about and it had two NOS 12ht long blocks in it...was in Northern Ireland. There were no unicorns in it but some clever leperchauns that I lured away with a box of luck charms.

 

[roma042987]

That is correct. But I’m asking about the HJ45 bellhousing and mounts.

I hate to rain on your parade but I feel I should make a recommendation because I went down that rabbit hole you are chasing with the bellhousing and mounts. You don't want to use that early 45 two piece bell housing. That setup was never designed to have an H55 and split case hanging behind it. the four 12mm bolts that attach the trans and tcase to that bellhousing will not hold that much weight for long. That is why Toyota moved the crossmember under the transmission. That's the main thing, also seems like there were some issues with the clutch and or clutch fork. I cant remember the specifics but something like it would require the use of the old hj45 3 finger style clutch which is too weak for the 12ht. Also I did confirm that early two piece bell housing fits a 12ht but did not confirm a 2h/12ht flywheel fits inside of it.

Lastly, the whole thing that was appealing about using the aluminum early bellhousing (unclocked) and late 40 series crossmember turned into a big wash in the end. The h55 is so much taller the trans tunnel has to be butchered up way too much anyway to fit. My recommendation would be to use which ever aluminum bellhousing you have early or late and pick up one of @lcwizard (4plus products) weld in crossmembers.

 

[Will Van]

I hate to rain on your parade but I feel I should make a recommendation because I went down that rabbit hole you are chasing with the bellhousing and mounts. You don't want to use that early 45 two piece bell housing. That setup was never designed to have an H55 and split case hanging behind it. the four 12mm bolts that attach the trans and tcase to that bellhousing will not hold that much weight for long. That is why Toyota moved the crossmember under the transmission. That's the main thing, also seems like there were some issues with the clutch and or clutch fork. I cant remember the specifics but something like it would require the use of the old hj45 3 finger style clutch which is too weak for the 12ht. Also I did confirm that early two piece bell housing fits a 12ht but did not confirm a 2h/12ht flywheel fits inside of it.

Lastly, the whole thing that was appealing about using the aluminum early bellhousing (unclocked) and late 40 series crossmember turned into a big wash in the end. The h55 is so much taller the trans tunnel has to be butchered up way too much anyway to fit. My recommendation would be to use which ever aluminum bellhousing you have early or late and pick up one of @lcwizard (4plus products) weld in crossmembers.

Thanks so much for the feedback!

I will mostly likely go the route you are suggesting - HJ47 aluminum bellhousing, HJ45/47 front engine mounts, and custom H55F crossmember/skid plate mount. I was asking about the HJ45 bellhousing strictly for mockup.

Do you know if the HJ47 aluminum bellhousing and engine mounts are the same layout/dimensions as the 2F bellhousing/engine mounts? In other words, if I weld-in my H55F crossmember with my current 2F setup, am I going to have to cut it all back out when I swap to the 2H?

 

[roma042987]

Thanks so much for the feedback!

I will mostly likely go the route you are suggesting - HJ47 aluminum bellhousing, HJ45/47 front engine mounts, and custom H55F crossmember/skid plate mount. I was asking about the HJ45 bellhousing strictly for mockup.

Do you know if the HJ47 aluminum bellhousing and engine mounts are the same layout/dimensions as the 2F bellhousing/engine mounts? In other words, if I weld-in my H55F crossmember with my current 2F setup, am I going to have to cut it all back out when I swap to the 2H?

Good question. Theoretically it should be the same but having said that I haven't done it in that particular order. Have you seen Dave's crossmember skidplate set up? It is THE way to go.

 

[roma042987]

5speed to a 40 crossmember

I've streamlined a setup to place a 5 to a f/2f in 40s using the flat bottom factory 69 style rubber mount. It has an integrated skid under the transfer. Cross pieces are cut from 1/2" steel. the rest is 1/4. Crossmembers are pre welded so you just bolt the crossmember to the rubber mount, after...

forum.ih8mud.com

Here ya go.

 

[Will Van]

Good question. Theoretically it should be the same but having said that I haven't done it in that particular order. Have you seen Dave's crossmember skidplate set up? It is THE way to go.

5speed to a 40 crossmember

I've streamlined a setup to place a 5 to a f/2f in 40s using the flat bottom factory 69 style rubber mount. It has an integrated skid under the transfer. Cross pieces are cut from 1/2" steel. the rest is 1/4. Crossmembers are pre welded so you just bolt the crossmember to the rubber mount, after...

forum.ih8mud.com

Here ya go.

Thank you.

Yessir, I agree! I almost pulled the trigger on Dave's crossmember/skid plate setup, but was hesitant because I have a twin stick 60 series split transfer case with rear parking brake drum. And I will eventually swap from 2F to 2H/12HT. Dave couldn't confirm that the skid plate would work with the H55F/split-case/PB drum setup. And I didn't want to weld the crossmember twice when I swapped to 2H/12HT.