LPG Conversion (1 Viewer)

[ih8dirt]

I've made a few posts about LPG conversion in the "What have you done to your 200 series this week?" thread, this is a separate thread about it, with a bit more info. Again, I didn't do the conversion myself, so I don't have THAT much info, but here's what I've got.

First of all, what are the pros of an LPG conversion? Quite a lot, actually.
1) A second tank. I have a '08 URJ200 and it has a pretty small tank (93? liters or around 25 gallons), so I needed a second tank. LPG tank is extremely durable, you could place it on the place of the spare tire under the truck or in the trunk. I've decided to place it under the truck.
2) Money. Price of gas in my country is 36 cents per liter (or about $1.37 per gallon). Price of LPG is about 15 cents per liter ($0.55 per gallon). Fuel consumption is around 10% higher on LPG, and gas is still used to start the car and while it's heating up, but still allows to save significant amount of money on fuel. The system becomes profitable after less than 18,000 miles.
3) The quality of gas in my country is awful. It's awful from the start, and then gas stations mix it up with other stuff to increase the volume and save money. I already had to change fuel pump because of bad quality of gas once. The quality of LPG is much better generally.
4) It is better for the environment, it is better for the engine.

Now, how the system works. This is a 4th generation LPG system.
There is a control unit, reducers and the tank, these are the main parts of the system. First LPG goes through a filter to reducer, which evaporates LPG. Reducer is cooled down by it's own cooling system, which is connected to a car's stock cooling system. Reducer also creates constant high pressure. LPG is sent to nozzles, which are installed in the intake manifold next to inlet valves. Everything is controlled by a separate LPG control unit, which reads all the data from car's sensors, analyzes it and adjusts for differences between gas and LPG.

The system installed here is an Italian one, most of the elements are from Lovato/Tomasetto, control unit is from OMVL and the tank is from Stako (Poland).

Now, pictures!

This is the tank. It doesn't hang as low as it looks on the photo. About the same as the spare (maybe a bit lower). It's extremely durable, so I don't really worry if I would hit a stone with it. It's 95 liters (25 gallons), but can't be fully filled. It fills up to about 90-92 liters. The spare tire is in the trunk for now. I guess I'll have to get the rear bumper with a tire carrier. Is it a good idea to place the spare on the roof, by the way?

Reducers under the bonnet.

Control unit. As I've said, the system uses all the car's native sensors and adjusts for differences between LPG and regular gas. The car itself doesn't even know something's changing when I'm switching fuel types.

 

[ih8dirt]

The filling point, next to the filling point for regular gas. It is often installed under the rear bumper, which is a bad way to do it. There's a lot of dirt, it's hard to get to at filling stations, you also have to move it if you modify your bumper. Here it's conveniently hidden under the stock filling point cover. Though, not every car has enough space there to add an LPG filling point. 100's and 200's do have enough space.

This is how it looks at a refuel station.

The button to change fuel type. It also has indicators of which fuel type I am using right now (yellow LED on the right shows I'm using gas, green LED on the left - LPG, when the green LED flashes - the system is getting ready to change fuel type to LPG) and approximately how much LPG is left in the tank. It doesn't show amount of LPG that well though, due to the nature of it. The rule is, it shows the tank is empty when it's actually half full. I can change fuel type any time, at any speed, I don't even notice when it switches. The control unit analyzes all the parameters and changes it at perfect time. It could even change it only for half of the valves, so that half of the engine will work on LPG and half - on gas. It doesn't do it under normal conditions though.

The car itself always starts on regular gas, then switches to LPG automatically when engine temp reaches about 70 degrees Celsius. I can start the engine on LPG if I need to (like if I ran out of gas), but it's not recommended. I can also turn off the LPG system completely, and the car will just run on gas as usual.

The car measures average fuel consumption as usual, though not as precise as on gas. Fuel consumption on LPG is about 10% higher than on gas.

I like the conversion. I had it on my 100 (almost the same), I've decided to do the same on 200. It's saving money, it gives more range, it saves engine from bad quality fuel. For example, detonation is non-existent as LPG's octane is about 100 AKI. There is slight power loss, though you can't really feel it 99% of the time. Fuel consumption is a bit higher. The system took around 1 day and $1100 to install (parts and work included), and I'll get that money back on the price difference in about half-a-year to a year. I guess the price would be higher in the US, but shouldn't be that expensive. Now it would take about a month for me to officially register the system here, I don't know anything about legal stuff in US.


There's another small nice touch. If the LPG tank is empty, in theory I could use a special adapter to fill up from any household gas bottle, which could be found literally anywhere. Just gives me some convenience.


And I guess that's it! If you have any questions I would be happy to answer them.
Sorry for phone-quality pics and for a very dirty car - it's hard to keep in clean in this time of the year here!

 

[Archtaan]

Interesting and very cool. Looks like a quality setup. The 16.8 L/100km converts to about 14mpg. So you avg. 15.2 L/100km when not using LP?

 

[ih8dirt]

Interesting and very cool. Looks like a quality setup. The 16.8 L/100km converts to about 14mpg. So you avg. 15.2 L/100km when not using LP?

Thanks!

Consumption, obviously, depends on where I'm driving. If it's country roads on gas I avg about 15.5 L/100km, if it's it city driving it's about 18-19 L/100km. I didn't test LPG on 200 a lot, only had it for a few days, I'm saying consumption is 10% higher based on previous experience, should be same here.

 

[Emturk]

Please can you send details of this coversion kit? Which parts have been bought exactly. Thanks

 

[NC237]

This is really cool. Thank you for sharing.

@Romer bump for consideration in the FAQ thread?

 

[ryanCA]

Very nice

It's very common conversion in SE Asia. I see LPG conversions on everything from corollas, cruisers to BMW 7 series

Though over the last 3 years, I have beeen seeing increasing CNG conversions

 

[Back 40]

interesting read, I have LX570 with a CNG conversion and have been very happy with it so far. The only complaint I have is that the tanks are in the back and do take up some space.

Are you having any problems with throttle delay when full throttle is applied?

 

[lasalsa]

Great option. I've been tossing the idea of getting my '08 converted to CNG. The only downfall is the space that the tanks take.
Our thought is to have the slimmer tanks installed under the side rails of the truck, and not the back where the spare is.
We also hear that the GNG can be filled by tapping into your existing home CNG system. Albeit slowly, still will work.

Who wants a 200 series to try it on in GA?

Keep the thread going along!

 

[ryanCA]

interesting read, I have LX570 with a CNG conversion and have been very happy with it so far. The only complaint I have is that the tanks are in the back and do take up some space.

Are you having any problems with throttle delay when full throttle is applied?

Details of your kit ?
Your location ?
Who did the install ?

I am contemplating doing it on the wife's 17 LX

 

[Back 40]

Details of your kit ?
Your location ?
Who did the install ?

I am contemplating doing it on the wife's 17 LX

I live in NW Arkansas. The install was performed by the prior owner. It was performed by Green County Conversions in Oklahoma City.

It has been a nice addition. Obviously we don't get the best fuel mileage. On longer trips the CNG tanks provide 200-250 additional miles of range.

 

[ryanCA]

I live in NW Arkansas. The install was performed by the prior owner. It was performed by Green County Conversions in Oklahoma City.

It has been a nice addition. Obviously we don't get the best fuel mileage. On longer trips the CNG tanks provide 200-250 additional miles of range.

Appreciate the info
THe range is utterly critical to us

I just did a roadtrip of 3781 miles with our station wagon, and its 620 mile range doing 80mph was a welcome change from all the cruisers in our life

 

[Romer]

He is in Kazakhstan and I don't think this conversion is legal in the US. Let me know if that's not correct. I know the Aussie's are doing this to and you can likely find kits there

 

[NC237]

I stand corrected. It is legal. Thanks guys for the info.

He is in Kazakhstan and I don't think this conversion is legal in the US. Let me know if that's not correct. I know the Aussie's are doing this to and you can likely find kits there

 

[ckkone]

Roger that. You are correct sir - not legal here. There's a list of vehicles and kits for conversation which are - the LC unfortunately isn't on it.

Lists of EPA-Compliant Alternative Fuel Conversion Systems | US EPA

This is not ture, at least not in the state of UT. Any vehicle in UT can be converted, however after the system is installed it needs to be inspected by a CSA America-certified CNG Fuel System Inspector and pass state safety and emissions inspections.

 

[Back 40]

This is not ture, at least not in the state of UT. Any vehicle in UT can be converted, however after the system is installed it needs to be inspected by a CSA America-certified CNG Fuel System Inspector and pass state safety and emissions inspections.

This is correct. The system must be checked every three years. There are also certain stickers that are required to indicate that the vehicle has a CNG conversion. Obviously the first responders and fire dept like to be aware of 10-20 gal of potentially explosive CNG.

 

[bugsnbikes]

cng in northern california via pge can be set up and charged to home pge account. projected cost in the next year is roughly 20% less per gallon than gas prices. 2.08avg vs 2.60ish. So even with a 10% power loss its offset somewhat by the 20% less fuel cost. Net 10% less fuel cost annually or .25-30c per gallon.

it would take 4000 gallons to recoup costs of system or 60,000 miles of driving @15mpg and another 60,000 miles /4000 gallons to recoup costs of new tanks in 10 years.

So 120,000 miles before you start "saving" money on gas vs cng at current prices. imho- cng makes alot more sense @ $4.00 gas prices. at $2.50- meh

most people dont factor in tanks as a consumable....but they are pricey and when savings are a mere 10% and you are factoring in decades of miles and use....it pushes out the savings curve.

 

[Back 40]

cng in northern california via pge can be set up and charged to home pge account. projected cost in the next year is roughly 20% less per gallon than gas prices. 2.08avg vs 2.60ish. So even with a 10% power loss its offset somewhat by the 20% less fuel cost. Net 10% less fuel cost annually or .25-30c per gallon.

it would take 4000 gallons to recoup costs of system or 60,000 miles of driving @15mpg and another 60,000 miles /4000 gallons to recoup costs of new tanks in 10 years.

So 120,000 miles before you start "saving" money on gas vs cng at current prices. imho- cng makes alot more sense @ $4.00 gas prices. at $2.50- meh

most people dont factor in tanks as a consumable....but they are pricey and when savings are a mere 10% and you are factoring in decades of miles and use....it pushes out the savings curve.

Im surprised by the high cost of CNG out there. I just filled up my tanks yesterday for $1.09 versus $2.55 (premium).
At the rate that these things drink gas, my savings has been pretty substantial. I would guess my ROI to be less than half of what your quoting.

The second attribute would be that you are not adding additional carbon into your engine. Im not exactly a tree hugger, but i do like the fact that my engine will last longer and run cleaner.

You would think as liberal as California is they would reduce some of the taxes on alt fuels.

 

[gearguywb]

The problem with CNG vs. propane is availability. Putting in a CNG refueling station is extremely expensive. Far less cost and much more availability on the propane side.

 

[Rex9802]

What is the cost here in the US?