Loss of power, torque, dead spot, hesitation whatever you want to call it!

g-man

SILVER Star
Joined
Sep 5, 2006
Messages
3,622
Location
Charlottesville VA
the question I have about the valve adjustment. Put the pointer on the flywheel to the line (TDC). if its on the compression stroke the rotor of the distributor should be pointing to the #1 spark plug wire at the distributor? Adjust 1,2,3,5,7,9. Then rotate the engine 360 Degrees stop at the TDC line again. Where should my rotor be pointing then so I know I am on the exhaust stroke? Then adjust 4,6,8,10,11,12. and how do I turn the motor over manually by the fly wheel? unhook the Coil so it doesn't fire.
Yes, you could pull the coil wire and bump the ignition around while someone watches for the TDC mark, Realize your fuel pump will still be pumping lots of fuel into your carb while you do this so don't plan on starting it anytime soon. Also have a strong battery or a charger connected to it to keep from draining it. Alternately you could move the flywheel by hand. You have to take 6 bolts off the bellhousing dust cover on the bottom and put a rag on it and pull it around by hand or with a tool designed to grab the teeth. Make sure the parking brake is on, you have the wheels chocked and the transmission in NEUTRAL. Trying to do this in gear is going to make the truck roll ...if your brutishly strong. Not good! Removing the spark plugs will aid in removing some compression and making this easier, but it's doable w/out removing the plugs. Also if you do this you can make a mark on the 6 oclock position on the flywheel once you have it on TDC, that way when you move it around again and if you are by yourself you will be able to get it pretty close to the mark again by looking at the 6 oclock mark while under the truck.

The rotor will point away from the motor instead of between the 3rd and 4th plugs if you are putting it on the exhaust stroke. I like this guide for doing the valves:

valve adjust table.JPG
 
Last edited:
Joined
Mar 21, 2014
Messages
357
yes a bushing around the stop pin, but also lighter springs or just send it off to Jim C for a proper recurve. Is your EGR working? you can test it by pulling vacuum on the top vacuum line to the EGR valve while at idle. It should kill the truck or almost stall if the valve is opening. If it doesn't open at all your EGR is disabled and you need to recurve your dizzy.
Pulled vacuum and there was no change. So I assume what you are saying my EGR is not working?
 

g-man

SILVER Star
Joined
Sep 5, 2006
Messages
3,622
Location
Charlottesville VA
Pulled vacuum and there was no change. So I assume what you are saying my EGR is not working?
YES. If you did it like this. line Q is pulled from the top of the EGR and connect a vacuum line from the gas filter to the top of the EGR valve.
1653087178507.png
 
Last edited:

g-man

SILVER Star
Joined
Sep 5, 2006
Messages
3,622
Location
Charlottesville VA
removing the air injection part of the smog system doesn't affect timing but a defunct, clogged, or disconnected EGR valve will change the air coming into the motor and the dizzy needs to be recurved and a few ports on the carb need to be plugged. It's a pain (breaking seized rusty BIG nuts loose) but you could remove the EGR and try to clean it with solvent. It would be much easier to remove the dizzy and replace the springs and advance the timing. But really to do it right send it off. Also you could try to hit it the EGR valve with a hammer while you rev the motor to try and dislodge carbon. Maybe not the healthiest for your motor.
 

g-man

SILVER Star
Joined
Sep 5, 2006
Messages
3,622
Location
Charlottesville VA
I've been having some problems with my egr modulator and egr VSV so I tried disconnecting the EGR valve and driving. FYI... It had a lot more power and responsiveness but with the timing on the BB I have dieseling sound coming from my exhaust at certain mid rpm range, some light backfiring on deceleration and I assume pinging although I haven't heard that yet. (All timing related symptoms). I switched my dizzy vacuum advance lines around to see if it helped but really not much change. I'm waiting for a new egr modulator so not advancing my timing yet. I do have some light springs I ordered as well to put in the dizzy as a last resort if I have to disc the EGR permanently.
 
Joined
Mar 21, 2014
Messages
357
YES. If you did it like this. line Q is pulled from the top of the EGR and connect a vacuum line from the gas filter to the top of the EGR valve. View attachment 3014265
I hook a vacuum hose to the top of the EGR sucked as hard as I could. No change. Then followed this picture from what I understand. And no change.

Connect circled hose to yellow arrow.

DF69245B-3290-4BAF-949B-7B82BBD6ABAC.jpeg
 
Joined
Mar 21, 2014
Messages
357
removing the air injection part of the smog system doesn't affect timing but a defunct, clogged, or disconnected EGR valve will change the air coming into the motor and the dizzy needs to be recurved and a few ports on the carb need to be plugged. It's a pain (breaking seized rusty BIG nuts loose) but you could remove the EGR and try to clean it with solvent. It would be much easier to remove the dizzy and replace the springs and advance the timing. But really to do it right send it off. Also you could try to hit it the EGR valve with a hammer while you rev the motor to try and dislodge carbon. Maybe not the healthiest for your motor.
All the desmog stuff is on the way. From what I understand you can run mid to premium fuel and timing set around 10 and no issue. Or get your distributor recurved. Which unfortunately takes months in end. And this is my daily so that tough
 
Joined
Mar 21, 2014
Messages
357
I've been having some problems with my egr modulator and egr VSV so I tried disconnecting the EGR valve and driving. FYI... It had a lot more power and responsiveness but with the timing on the BB I have dieseling sound coming from my exhaust at certain mid rpm range, some light backfiring on deceleration and I assume pinging although I haven't heard that yet. (All timing related symptoms). I switched my dizzy vacuum advance lines around to see if it helped but really not much change. I'm waiting for a new egr modulator so not advancing my timing yet. I do have some light springs I ordered as well to put in the dizzy as a last resort if I have to disc the EGR permanently.
I tried switching the the lines on the dizzy mine pinged bad.
 

g-man

SILVER Star
Joined
Sep 5, 2006
Messages
3,622
Location
Charlottesville VA
I hook a vacuum hose to the top of the EGR sucked as hard as I could. No change. Then followed this picture from what I understand. And no change.

Connect circled hose to yellow arrow.

View attachment 3014275
not sure how much psi you can pull by mouth, put the line on the 3 pronged gas filter that is on the intake between the carb and EGR it will pull 15 to 20 psi hg vacuum if you have a healthy engine and should kill the motor if the egr valve opens.
 

cwwfj60

Supporting Vendor
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
1,329
Location
San Antonio, Tx
All the desmog stuff is on the way. From what I understand you can run mid to premium fuel and timing set around 10 and no issue. Or get your distributor recurved. Which unfortunately takes months in end. And this is my daily so that tough
One thing you should consider is whether the head has ever been off, if you cut a few thou of the head a couple times you’ll start pinging sooner and sooner when you advance timing…..it’s not all perceivable from the outside looking in…unless you know the history.

Also, that port you hooked to on the egr looks like a modulator….you need to hook up to the metal egr valve….but I don’t have a stock 60 egr in front of me…I could be misunderstanding this during my Friday evening beverages :beer:
 

g-man

SILVER Star
Joined
Sep 5, 2006
Messages
3,622
Location
Charlottesville VA
One thing you should consider is whether the head has ever been off, if you cut a few thou of the head a couple times you’ll start pinging sooner and sooner when you advance timing…..it’s not all perceivable from the outside looking in…unless you know the history.

Also, that port you hooked to on the egr looks like a modulator….you need to hook up to the metal egr valve….but I don’t have a stock 60 egr in front of me…I could be misunderstanding this during my Friday evening beverages :beer:
Agreed, you are trying to pull vacuum at the top of the METAL egr valve. So disconnect the Q line from the brown plastic modulator where it's circled in red and connect That end to vacuum source.
 
Joined
Mar 21, 2014
Messages
357
not sure how much psi you can pull by mouth, put the line on the 3 pronged gas filter that is on the intake between the carb and EGR it will pull 15 to 20 psi hg vacuum if you have a healthy engine and should kill the motor if the egr valve opens.
So without any change I assume my EGR is closed
 
Joined
Mar 21, 2014
Messages
357
One thing you should consider is whether the head has ever been off, if you cut a few thou of the head a couple times you’ll start pinging sooner and sooner when you advance timing…..it’s not all perceivable from the outside looking in…unless you know the history.

Also, that port you hooked to on the egr looks like a modulator….you need to hook up to the metal egr valve….but I don’t have a stock 60 egr in front of me…I could be misunderstanding this during my Friday evening beverages :beer:
I disconnected it from the modulator. So a hose directly from the EGR to the three prong off the manifold. Vacuum from the three prong just no reaction from the EGR

I don’t know if the head has ever been off. Not in my ownership. I’ve had it for about 12 years.
 

g-man

SILVER Star
Joined
Sep 5, 2006
Messages
3,622
Location
Charlottesville VA
I disconnected it from the modulator. So a hose directly from the EGR to the three prong off the manifold. Vacuum from the three prong just no reaction from the EGR

I don’t know if the head has ever been off. Not in my ownership. I’ve had it for about 12 years.
So your EGR is clogged and not opening upon vacuum. The way it works is the modulator and the VSV (vacuum switching valve) work together to pull vacuum on that line to open the EGR when the inputs are right. But the valve is stuck closed. Full of carbon.
 
Joined
Mar 21, 2014
Messages
357
So your EGR is clogged and not opening upon vacuum. The way it works is the modulator and the VSV (vacuum switching valve) work together to pull vacuum on that line to open the EGR when the inputs are right. But the valve is stuck closed. Full of carbon.
Any way of unclogging or just remove and try to clean?
 

g-man

SILVER Star
Joined
Sep 5, 2006
Messages
3,622
Location
Charlottesville VA
Beat it with a hammer while revving the engine might dislodge some carbon and free it. This has worked for me in the past. You may want to research this...not sure it the carbon will end up going straight into the intake and cause some other problems. A more conservative approach would be to remove the EGR valve and soak it with some kind of solvent. It's a major pain to break those large nuts loose. I believe one is a 27mm. I recently yanked my entire EGR system from the exhaust to overhaul it. It was a major pain to get out. It would be much easier to pull the dizzy and replace the springs, advance the timing and just leave the top vacuum line disconnected from the EGR valve.

Check out post #154 in this thread on page 8. I have the springs but not installed yet. If I can't get my EGR system to work I may try this.

 

micruz60

Unleaded Regular
Joined
Nov 6, 2006
Messages
1,732
Location
East of the Crossroads
I disconnected the egr system off the original engine on my '87 , what a strong-arm battle! Afterwards, I used Easy-Off oven cleaner to clean up the carbon, got the valve operational. Probably not a good idea to do this on-board, with the oven cleaner getting ingested into the engine. (The engine is in hibernation, awaiting a rebuild)
As a spitballing thought, maybe run B-12 cleaner into the valve? I've done that thru the brake booster vacuum intake, but not much black exhaust. Cleaned up the intake manifold quite nicely...
 
Joined
Mar 21, 2014
Messages
357
I disconnected the egr system off the original engine on my '87 , what a strong-arm battle! Afterwards, I used Easy-Off oven cleaner to clean up the carbon, got the valve operational. Probably not a good idea to do this on-board, with the oven cleaner getting ingested into the engine. (The engine is in hibernation, awaiting a rebuild)
As a spitballing thought, maybe run B-12 cleaner into the valve? I've done that thru the brake booster vacuum intake, but not much black exhaust. Cleaned up the intake manifold quite nicely...
I will have all the items do do the desmog. My only hiccup is the recurve. It takes months and months. The 60 is my daily. So it’s tricky
 

micruz60

Unleaded Regular
Joined
Nov 6, 2006
Messages
1,732
Location
East of the Crossroads
Refreshing on the desmog process- it takes the EGR out of the system, with the block off plate at the underside of the intake exhaust manifold, where the j-pipe attaches, and without the smog pump there's no reburn of the exhaust. Solving the ping issue usually requires higher octane fuel, which in today's price is a PAIN.
Rushing Turdle's thread gets most of the way to a recurved distributor. I have been working toward a desmog on my '87, slowly, but on my'77 most of the work is done- albeit that version of 2F has the small cap distributor and I have not recurved it.

At least you have regained your power by adjusting the timing, perhaps by getting the j-pipe off and blocking that at the intake, you can proceed with daily driving until doing the recurve. Keep checking the valve clearances, the 2F is a tough engine.
HTH
 
Last edited:

Users who are viewing this thread

Top Bottom