LC200 vs. LX570: HP, Torque, and Required Octane Ratings

[JBHorne]

FYI for anyone that is interested, I posed the following question to Toyota:

The Toyota LC and the Lexus LX are both URJ200 vehicles utilizing the 3UR-FE engine.

For the LC200, the engine specifications are:
Required octane: 87
HP: 381 @ 5600
TQ: 401 @ 3600

For the LX570, however, the specifications are:
Required octane: 91
HP: 383 @ 5600
TQ: 403 @ 3600

Both engines are manufactured in Japan as opposed to the Tundra/Sequoia 5.7L engine which is built stateside.

The question is, why the difference in required octane, hp and torque figures? I'm especially interested in the octane requirement as page 90 of the URJ200 manual states, "Use unleaded gasoline. (87 Octane Rating [Research Octane Number 91] or higher)".

Second, what does "[Research Octane Number 91]" mean?

and received the following in reply:

Thank you for contacting Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc.

We appreciate the opportunity to address your inquiry.

While we understand that the Toyota Land Cruiser and the Lexus LX 570 are similar vehicles that share some mechanical components, each Toyota vehicle is designed to its own set of specifications. Vehicles that share engines may be tuned to different standards depending on their specific engineering goals and intended use. Additionally, differences in engine bay and transmission design may necessitate changes to the layout of the intake and exhaust systems in similar models, resulting in differences such as those you have brought to our attention.

Perhaps speaking more directly to your concern regarding Octane Ratings, Toyota's published horsepower figures are based on the recommended fuel for the vehicle. You may be interested in comparing specifications for the 2011 Lexus ES 350, which requires 87 octane fuel, and the 2010 model, which required 91. As our recommendation changed, the 2011 model's output was lowered to 268 hp @ 6,200 rpm from 272 hp @ 6,200 rpm. Details for both model years can be viewed at ES | Detailed Specifications and Lexus Certified Pre-Owned – Model Library – ES 2010.

As the engine is the same in both model years, this change may be due to fuel map adjustments necessary to allow the use of 87 octane fuel, or simply due to the fact that 91 octane fuel has more energy per gallon than 87. We apologize that we do not have technical information on the specific differences between vehicles that share the same engine block.

As to your question regarding research octane numbers, this is the most commonly used unit of measure for rating fuel in markets outside of North America. You might consider the relationship between research octane ratings and "normal" octane ratings to be analogous to that of gallons and Imperial gallons when discussing volume.

Toyota can only recommend that you use the type of fuel that is specified for your Toyota or Lexus in the year that the vehicle was built. Use of 87 octane in the Lexus LX 570 may cause engine knocking, which may over time cause damage to the vehicle. Damage caused from the use of non specified fuels may not be covered under warranty.

 

[rove_mcanus]

What are the available fuels in the US?

In australia is 91, 95 and 98ron.

I would think the cruiser could adapt to higher octane fuels, as could the LX.
I would think the cruiser runs 87 to appeal as cheaper to run,
and that the LX uses a 'better' fuel to make it more appealing from a social perspective. The power gains certainly aren't significant.
I mean what self respecting Lexus owner would want to be seen at a regular gas pump? Sort of gives the impression you are either a bit careful with money, or perhaps you are 'mutton dressed as lamb'

 

[pagemaster]

The question is, why the difference in required octane, hp and torque figures?

Back in the day, car makers in the US could pump in 91 octane or higher into vehicle and say it made 383 hp and then never say it made less hp with 87 octane.

Toyota was know for this. Remember the Tundra that made 282hp, then a year later it made 271 hp? That becasue they now had to use 87 in their testing methods as that is what was recommended by them, and further more, the engine now had to be tested with all major components attached.

More than likely, the 5.7 in your Land Cruiser will make 383 hp with 91.

Overseas, the same 5.7 in the LC/LX makes 362hp

 

[JBHorne]

It was just interesting to me as TCO for the LX570 would be considerably more expensive at the pump than the LC200 for really a minimal gain.

For only a few HP, I'd much rather pump cheaper gas. And as for image when at the pump, in the US it's the same pump, same nozzle, just a different button. No one knows what the hell your pumping or cares for that matter.

 

[pagemaster]

I don't think there is any image thing.

yes there is very little gain, but the 5.7 was designed that way. The 4.7 IMO always runs better on 91, and it shows with high hp figures.

 

[JBHorne]

I don't think there is any image thing.

yes there is very little gain, but the 5.7 was designed that way. The 4.7 IMO always runs better on 91, and it shows with high hp figures.

Agreed, I've ran 91 for a tank and noticed nothing, especially when considering the cost.

Now I've been considering a uni chip, which requires 91. If there were significant performance gains, I wouldn't mind paying for 91.

By Q2 2012 I hope to have a TRD supercharger running, but that will be a review for a later date (hint...hint)

 

[scottryana]

I would bet that the Lexus has a more restrictive exhaust to make for a quieter car, to get the same level of power out of the engine as that of the LC200, the computer map was changed a little and the required octane rating to do it was bumped up. It's just a guess.

Ryan

 

[pagemaster]

I would bet that the Lexus has a more restrictive exhaust to make for a quieter car, to get the same level of power out of the engine as that of the LC200, the computer map was changed a little and the required octane rating to do it was bumped up. It's just a guess.

Ryan

I can't see Toyota putting a different exhaust on the LX vs the LC. They would be the same if anything. The LC/LX are pretty much the same vehicle underneath. And over in the UK, Toyota offers the Land Cruiser with the identical LX suspension/axle and rims except that it is married to the 4.5 diesel engine.

 

[rhllc]

I mean what self respecting Lexus owner would want to be seen at a regular gas pump? Sort of gives the impression you are either a bit careful with money, or perhaps you are 'mutton dressed as lamb'

Unfortunately, all the grades come out of the same hose/pump except 100 Octane racing fuel. My Mustang is spec'd at 93 Octane, so it gets 2-3 gallons of 100 Octane every fill, mixed in with the the California normally best available 91 Octane.


So when I have to show a LC200 owner their place in the luxury 4x4 pecking order:

1. First I hit the "high" switch so I can look down on them.
2. Then I use the extra 2 HP and 2 LBs of torque to leave them in the dust.
   
   Well worth extra price of the gas and added Lexus sticker price.

 

[pagemaster]

I am sure that that Tundra/Sequoia and Land Cruiser will make 383hp/403tq if 91 is used.

Both engines are manufactured in Japan as opposed to the Tundra/Sequoia 5.7L engine which is built stateside.

Very early 07 Tundras were Japan built engines.

 

[mark71]

2 hp AND 2 ft/lbs more? knew i should have upgraded!

 

[bjowett]

Several folks that tow a lot with their Tundra 5.7s have noticed a decent increase in mileage while using 91 Octane. Enough of a difference that it makes sense dollars wise to use 91 octane with a larger load behind the vehicle. Thus, I suspect there is no difference between the LX and LC.... it's simply the ECU adjusting for the fuel grade.

 

[pagemaster]

Several folks that tow a lot with their Tundra 5.7s have noticed a decent increase in mileage while using 91 Octane.

That could be the reason why the LX uses premium.

The LX makes 12/18mpg while Land Cruiser makes 13/18....its possible with 87 the LX makes 11/17

 

[barumbado]

Back in the day, car makers in the US could pump in 91 octane or higher into vehicle and say it made 383 hp and then never say it made less hp with 87 octane.

Toyota was know for this. Remember the Tundra that made 282hp, then a year later it made 271 hp? That becasue they now had to use 87 in their testing methods as that is what was recommended by them, and further more, the engine now had to be tested with all major components attached.

More than likely, the 5.7 in your Land Cruiser will make 383 hp with 91.

Overseas, the same 5.7 in the LC/LX makes 362hp

You are my idol, you just know everything pagemaster.

What color is your Tundra?

 

[SWUtah]

Did not find this thread doing a Mud search but with a Google search. It does answer some fuel questions. Anyone else have any info. Cost wise where I live between regular and Premium is 40 cents a gallon. That works out to about $300 per year for me. If it's not going to help any thing I would just as soon spend that $300 at happy hour

 

[JtBrown]

Resurrecting old thread but:

I personally use premium in my TLC because it burns hotter, gas stations add more detergents in higher octane, and peace of mind. If I only planned to keep it a short period I would use 87.

I also add Lucas fuel injector cleaner once a quarter and notice my truck idols a lot better from when I purchased it.

On my Prius I run 87 and when I add fuel injector cleaner I will run 93 with it but I don't expect to see any gains since this car is only tuned for fuel economy.


Lastly a question for the long term high mileage group, if you plan to keep your car long term and you know lower octane can cause pinging and knocking, why wouldn't you consider using 93?

 

[SWUtah]

Resurrecting old thread but:

I personally use premium in my TLC because it burns hotter, gas stations add more detergents in higher octane, and peace of mind. If I only planned to keep it a short period I would use 87.

I also add Lucas fuel injector cleaner once a quarter and notice my truck idols a lot better from when I purchased it.

On my Prius I run 87 and when I add fuel injector cleaner I will run 93 with it but I don't expect to see any gains since this car is only tuned for fuel economy.


Lastly a question for the long term high mileage group, if you plan to keep your car long term and you know lower octane can cause pinging and knocking, why wouldn't you consider using 93?

I use 93 in my 100 and used it in my LX570. A lot of members have used 87 in their 100's for 100's of thousands of miles with no problem. The 200 series LX570 calls for Premium but the LC 200 calls for regular but the computer should be able to retard the timing so the LX570 can run on 87 with no problem, but it should run better on 93 octane.

 

[dukmon]

The octain dilemma folks struggle with makes me chortle.

 

[JtBrown]

The octain dilemma folks struggle with makes me chortle.

I agree but if you read the response from Toyota they don't really give a clear answer.

Truth is I've always owned vehicles in the past that require premium so I'm used to paying for it. All I want to know is why can't manufactures shoot straight when they say to research higher octane...

 

[Chocolate]

There is a difference in redline FWIW in first gear at least in the LX where it will shift to second gear at 5,000 rpm at 87 octane, and will rev until ~5600 rpm in first with 93 octane. That's the only "noticeable" difference I can see. While the ECU in the LX will adjust for the fuel octane as posted above, I still use premium for the small difference in yearly cost and my driving style. Commute is only about 10-12 minutes usually, with a longer commute I might switch to regular.