Jekyll and Hyde engine frustration
- Thread starter Slow Poke
- Start date
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My reaction was maybe a leak in manifold/intake but have checked and remedied that. Double back make sure you have no other vacuum leaks. Hopefully you don't have bad gas. Add an additive that may help with water. I doubt you have bad gas but still does not hurt.
So the other things to check are the coil and condenser.
The coil will check good with a load and after it warms up under a load will not. If it's a overheating problem you can sometimes find these types of problems with freeze spray. Spray the components after it gets hot and see what happens.
The condenser is a capacitor. You can check it with capacitor meter. They will go bad over time even if it just sits on a shelf. I always say they are like milk and they will go bad over time.....I usually get a good laugh when I make that comment.
Make sure you are using the correct spark plugs. May consider replacing them if they are old. Weird stuff happens. An OEM will be helpful. You can find them online..
So the other things to check are the coil and condenser.
The coil will check good with a load and after it warms up under a load will not. If it's a overheating problem you can sometimes find these types of problems with freeze spray. Spray the components after it gets hot and see what happens.
The condenser is a capacitor. You can check it with capacitor meter. They will go bad over time even if it just sits on a shelf. I always say they are like milk and they will go bad over time.....I usually get a good laugh when I make that comment.
Make sure you are using the correct spark plugs. May consider replacing them if they are old. Weird stuff happens. An OEM will be helpful. You can find them online..
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- Thread starter
- #23
I started making a list, cap n rotor, capacitor, coil with internal resistor and I found the cap is unobtainium. Now what? I had an HEI several years ago but it was a cantankerous little bastard and I switched to the 1980 small cap. I guess I need to make another change. This is turning into a slippery slope…
When I had drivability issues, backfiring, stumbling or just couldn't move, two things helped me out: vented fuel cap and new fuel pump.
To vent my fuel cap, I drilled a small (1.5mm) hole in the cap.
Fuel pump took 15 minutes to replace on the side of the road.
Good luck.
To vent my fuel cap, I drilled a small (1.5mm) hole in the cap.
Fuel pump took 15 minutes to replace on the side of the road.
Good luck.
I might have a spare dizzy with a low-miles cap. I'm probably never going to use it...
- Thread starter
- #26
I’m pretty sure it’s my coil. I’ve decided to take it back to stock by replacing the distributor with an OE unit. I may need to replace the igniter too because the one I have is from a 1980 with electronic ignition. Does anyone know if I can modify this igniter to work with a points and condenser Distributor?
No clue. I think my OEM 72 coil is finally going bad. I just ordered a coil and resistor on Amoron for $26. In April I bought their chinesium Delco for like $120. Put on the old drive gear and swapped in my cap, wires, rotor, capacitor and points -all fit nicely. Runs like a champ, except for an occasional "miss". Could be a carb issue too. That's next on the list - to clean the 2 bbl Rochester that came on the rig in 82. Once back in the 2000's I had free up a bonded to the housing, leather pump cup on the accelerator pump. Other than that I have never touched it except to spray on some carb cleaner every decade or so.
Points typically just have a condenser and coil.
It's important to have a coil with the correct resistance. Some systems spec a ballast resistor with the stock coil.
Get quality points and condenser. Today's parts are often bad new in box. Especially condensers.
It's important to have a coil with the correct resistance. Some systems spec a ballast resistor with the stock coil.
Get quality points and condenser. Today's parts are often bad new in box. Especially condensers.
I went through a similar troubleshooting process on my 79 and found my oem electronic distributor had too much axial slop and my igniter was out of spec per the FSM.
That's probably not your problem, but when I opted to upgrade to a FJ60 ignition system I learned some things that might apply to your situation, if you decide to swap out your electronic distributor for a points type.
If you're not familiar, Coolerman's site has a nice writeup on 2F distributors over the years. A great starting point. And, he helped me with some wiring items to get mine going.
Another thought, if you're considering replacing your 1980 electronic distributor with an older style points unit, you may need to change more than the distributor, as I don't believe points distributors use an igniter. You'll need to sort out those wiring changes.
Also, with your 77 wiring and a 1980 distributor, you should have a ballast resistor feeding your coil and igniter. My 79 had an inline resistor wire (between the ignition switch and coil). If you don't have either, that should be corrected.
Fyi, I've had good luck with my upgraded ignition system from a FJ60. It may have been overkill to the points purists here, but it runs way better than my wonky original 79 distributor and igniter. Oh, and my oem 79 igniter/coil setup didn't have a condenser.
Bottom line, you've got lots of options to choose from. Check out Coolerman's site and get a good schematic (download) for your year to help with any wiring changes if needed.
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- Thread starter
- #30
Thanks everyone for the many good suggestions. I’ll definitely check out Coolermans web site again and see if I can find something I may have missed.
Here’s the latest: I bought a new coil and it didn’t change a thing. Runs perfectly on start up but deteriorates quickly once it reaches optimal temperature. It’s possible the pickup in the distributor is failing so I plan to install the points distributor I bought from City Racer next. I’ll need to get a ballast resistor before I do that though. This sure has been a frustrating issue and I sincerely appreciate the many helpful suggestions
Here’s the latest: I bought a new coil and it didn’t change a thing. Runs perfectly on start up but deteriorates quickly once it reaches optimal temperature. It’s possible the pickup in the distributor is failing so I plan to install the points distributor I bought from City Racer next. I’ll need to get a ballast resistor before I do that though. This sure has been a frustrating issue and I sincerely appreciate the many helpful suggestions
Yes these problems definitely get frustrating. I know many people prefer to convert to electronic ignitions, but I've had good results with keeping the points on my old iron. (Non Toyota) I put in a good set of points, condenser, cap, rotor, solid core plug wires and a Bosch coil in my Flathead Ford in August of 2015 and haven't touched them since. It's not a daily driver but it fire's up and drives whenever I need it.
I did disassemble the distributor and freshen it up at that time as well. I built a spare to carry around and haven't needed it yet.
I'm looking forward to what you find and getting it running.
I did disassemble the distributor and freshen it up at that time as well. I built a spare to carry around and haven't needed it yet.
I'm looking forward to what you find and getting it running.
If it works fine but after warm up warms up not so much. Something is over loading the coil, possibly arcing, the igniter, wire up incorrectly, maybe a worn out distributor. I know it gets really expensive shotgunning. I highly suggest getting an OEM if have not already. Not sure if this will for you.
Toyota FJ40 Owners Manual 1964 | PDF Toyota FJ40 Owners Manual 1964 | PDF - https://share.google/cyn7ilOcUTnocCSz2
Land Cruiser manuals, FSMs, and repair resources – Heritage Cruisers Land Cruiser manuals, FSMs, and repair resources - https://share.google/Pw8hXNXcOnB0eu0oZ
I have seen coils overheat and stop working once it cooled down. Repeat the process. Check you ignitor for cold solder joints. It may have a bad component.
I think points are okay and work okay compared to an electronic ignition setup. I feel like I get a better start and more spunk with an electronic setup. The thing about an electronic ignition it is dependable until it's not. When a points set up fails its usually the points or the condenser for the most part. You do what you think best.
Toyota FJ40 Owners Manual 1964 | PDF Toyota FJ40 Owners Manual 1964 | PDF - https://share.google/cyn7ilOcUTnocCSz2
Land Cruiser manuals, FSMs, and repair resources – Heritage Cruisers Land Cruiser manuals, FSMs, and repair resources - https://share.google/Pw8hXNXcOnB0eu0oZ
I have seen coils overheat and stop working once it cooled down. Repeat the process. Check you ignitor for cold solder joints. It may have a bad component.
I think points are okay and work okay compared to an electronic ignition setup. I feel like I get a better start and more spunk with an electronic setup. The thing about an electronic ignition it is dependable until it's not. When a points set up fails its usually the points or the condenser for the most part. You do what you think best.
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Just curious, since you have a combination of different years (later distributor/igniter vs earlier harness), have you verified that you have a ballast resistor or resistor wire between your ignition switch and coil?
An easy way to verify, check your voltage at coil+ after it's running. If you have around 7v, that's not your problem. If you have alternator voltage (above 12v), you likely have a problem, either with your igniter or your ballast (resistor or wire).
That coil and igniter need to see around 7v per the FSM when running. Not sure what happens if you don't, but a fault like that might explain a few things. Worth checking anyway.
On my 79 with the same igniter and distributor, it ran like crap and had lots of issues contributing to the poor running. I got around 12v at coil+ and ignored it because my resistor wire was intact and I was working on the many other problems.
Finally, I got around to checking the igniter vs the FSM and found it failed one of the tests. Somehow it was responsible for the 12v at coil+.
Fast forward, I also had a bad bushing in the 79 distributor, so I opted for a later model large cap distributor from an FJ60 with matching coil/igniter and deleted the ballast as the later models can operate on full alternator voltage. Runs great.
Like I said, worth a quick check.
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I had all kinds of weird hesitation and cutoffs until i checked my connection to the fuel cutoff solinoid. It has to have 12v otherwise it won’t run properly and stumble/stall. At least you can check it off the list with a simple test.
About how long, in minutes, does it take to start deteriorating if just sitting at an idle?
If I remember correctly latter year coils eliminated the external ballot resistor. They had the built in resistance. And is used to for normal running time and bypassed when starting the engine.
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- Thread starter
- #37
I’ve checked the cutoff solenoid and it’s fine. It takes about 20 minutes before things start to go sideways. It starts to miss here and there and then it goes bad fairly quickly.
The only other suggestion is assuming all components correctly used like not having mismatched components....is check the terminals have tight fit, reseat them to make sure. Sometimes they oxidize...reseating or cleaning them with small wire brush(they look like at toothbrush) also make solid wires at the terminals. Having 2 or 3 strands attached to terminals don't count redo them. I believe Coolerman's website sells them.
Have you VERIFIED it has no spark after it dies? Run it until it dies, then pull the coil wire and see if you have a good spark jumping to the head or block while someone cranks it over. It will suck to put a new ignition in and find out it's something else.