Build indycole's 2016 200 Series Build and Retrospective

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And a few more recent photos....

Packed and ready to go. Still loving the @TrekboxX and gear from @AdventureToolCompany.



We'd still be driving around like idiots up there if it weren't for @Markuson making sure we knew which direction to go.



First full trip over Imogene in 2019? @TRD Burglar @Markuson? Sometimes it makes sense to charge ahead even if multiple people tell you the pass is closed.



@Tierra Cruiser, @HoovHartid, and @ethernectar climbing and crawling



The last part up to Engineer Pass... one of our favorite vistas.



Photos, check.



I prefer Corkscrew as spooky, rainy, and slippery as possible



Leisurely run up Stony Pass... thanks for tailing @elkeye!



Pizza.



The drone was being attacked by a large bird but I managed to grab this shot before the bird broke my propeller.



@Markuson got a little eager backing out and went up on three wheels just after this photo was taken. I doubt anyone is surprised. 🤣



Corkscrew was definitely a highlight this year... we really enjoyed it despite running it like 4 times.



A shot of Black Bear Pass with no vehicles and no people.

 
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indycole said:
There's no final conclusion on the CV yet but I'll say it's been a bit of an ordeal. I think it's straightened out now but I'm holding my breath until the work is done. On the plus side, the seat belt tensioner recall work was done on my truck while it was at the dealer.

I've also finally gotten around to pulling Cruise Moab photos off my devices as well as some photos from LCDC.

I'll start with a few from the Four Corners area before CM.

Monument Valley, Ouray in May, and Shiprock











Click to expand...
WOW, awesome photos Cole!!!
 
I've gathered newfound respect for the strength of the CV on our trucks. I alluded to some CV problems in recent posts and now have enough information worth sharing to help prevent future problems.

Prior to LCDC, I visited the local Toyota dealer for a maintenance interval and asked them to look into a reproducible steering noise. They pretty quickly concluded that the UCA bushings needed replaced and we ended up getting Jason's UCAs overnighted so the truck would be ready in time to leave for Colorado.

Our first day offroad in CO I noticed significant popping/clicking from the frontend on the drivers side when the axle was under load. I didn't notice any play in the axle or leaking boots so I simply kept my eye on it. I also took it very easy on the front end while on other trails during the trip. By the end I just felt paranoid because there was no visible issue with the axle at all... for all I knew the tire was rubbing in a way that was hard to see while driving. I did notice the noise get worse throughout the week.

2500 mile round trip later and I heard the noise in on pavement after making a very tight turn. We took the truck back to Toyota last Monday after unloading our gear from the Ouray trip. At this point I just thought I'd damaged the CV in Ouray but was convinced that there was a problem with the axle. It took nearly a week of debate, swapping service advisors, and a ride-a-long with the shop foreman for the dealer service center to even be willing to inspect the axle. The original paperwork mid-week indicated that the noise is normal.

It took chatting with @TRAIL TAILOR to connect the dots between the UCA swap and the noise. The noise came up the day after the UCA swap but I'd simply forgotten that correlation. I blame the San Juans and lots of beer within those two weeks.

I brought up the theory that something went amiss during the UCA install with my regular service advisor (who had returned from vacation... could have used him last week) and he worked his magic to validate whether the shop had made a mistake. Sure enough, upon removing the axle they found that it wasn't seated into the diff perfectly AND that some combination of the ball bearings and clip weren't in place which indicated either the hub was dropped forcefully or they were using too much leverage off the hub when doing the suspension work. The axle is hosed and at this point we're not sure if the front diff needs an inspection as well.

Anyway, just wanted to go back to the fact that I'm still impressed with the CV surviving six days of moderate trails in the San Juans despite who knows what was going on in the joints. I don't have photos I can share, yet, but there was a ton of abnormal wear, burrs, etc. around the race and cage due to the bearings not being in the correct position.

The funny thing is that it's going to take like 2 weeks to get the parts so I'm picking the truck up tonight to at least have it to drive around until they're ready for it.
 
indycole said:
I've gathered newfound respect for the strength of the CV on our trucks. I alluded to some CV problems in recent posts and now have enough information worth sharing to help prevent future problems.

Prior to LCDC, I visited the local Toyota dealer for a maintenance interval and asked them to look into a reproducible steering noise. They pretty quickly concluded that the UCA bushings needed replaced and we ended up getting Jason's UCAs overnighted so the truck would be ready in time to leave for Colorado.

Our first day offroad in CO I noticed significant popping/clicking from the frontend on the drivers side when the axle was under load. I didn't notice any play in the axle or leaking boots so I simply kept my eye on it. I also took it very easy on the front end while on other trails during the trip. By the end I just felt paranoid because there was no visible issue with the axle at all... for all I knew the tire was rubbing in a way that was hard to see while driving. I did notice the noise get worse throughout the week.

2500 mile round trip later and I heard the noise in on pavement after making a very tight turn. We took the truck back to Toyota last Monday after unloading our gear from the Ouray trip. At this point I just thought I'd damaged the CV in Ouray but was convinced that there was a problem with the axle. It took nearly a week of debate, swapping service advisors, and a ride-a-long with the shop foreman for the dealer service center to even be willing to inspect the axle. The original paperwork mid-week indicated that the noise is normal.

It took chatting with @TRAIL TAILOR to connect the dots between the UCA swap and the noise. The noise came up the day after the UCA swap but I'd simply forgotten that correlation. I blame the San Juans and lots of beer within those two weeks.

I brought up the theory that something went amiss during the UCA install with my regular service advisor (who had returned from vacation... could have used him last week) and he worked his magic to validate whether the shop had made a mistake. Sure enough, upon removing the axle they found that it wasn't seated into the diff perfectly AND that some combination of the ball bearings and clip weren't in place which indicated either the hub was dropped forcefully or they were using too much leverage off the hub when doing the suspension work. The axle is hosed and at this point we're not sure if the front diff needs an inspection as well.

Anyway, just wanted to go back to the fact that I'm still impressed with the CV surviving six days of moderate trails in the San Juans despite who knows what was going on in the joints. I don't have photos I can share, yet, but there was a ton of abnormal wear, burrs, etc. around the race and cage due to the bearings not being in the correct position.

The funny thing is that it's going to take like 2 weeks to get the parts so I'm picking the truck up tonight to at least have it to drive around until they're ready for it.
Click to expand...

C,

I'm glad the issue was resolved. Like I said.. I've had too many guys call after they've worked on the front end with those noises you relayed. Pry bars and improper install techniques have all been the issue after the fact. Not surprised it was a techs fault, but at least they are owning the mishap.

2 weeks isn't too long to know it'll all be corrected and NEW.

Cheers,

J
 
indycole said:
I've gathered newfound respect for the strength of the CV on our trucks. I alluded to some CV problems in recent posts and now have enough information worth sharing to help prevent future problems.

Prior to LCDC, I visited the local Toyota dealer for a maintenance interval and asked them to look into a reproducible steering noise. They pretty quickly concluded that the UCA bushings needed replaced and we ended up getting Jason's UCAs overnighted so the truck would be ready in time to leave for Colorado.

Our first day offroad in CO I noticed significant popping/clicking from the frontend on the drivers side when the axle was under load. I didn't notice any play in the axle or leaking boots so I simply kept my eye on it. I also took it very easy on the front end while on other trails during the trip. By the end I just felt paranoid because there was no visible issue with the axle at all... for all I knew the tire was rubbing in a way that was hard to see while driving. I did notice the noise get worse throughout the week.

2500 mile round trip later and I heard the noise in on pavement after making a very tight turn. We took the truck back to Toyota last Monday after unloading our gear from the Ouray trip. At this point I just thought I'd damaged the CV in Ouray but was convinced that there was a problem with the axle. It took nearly a week of debate, swapping service advisors, and a ride-a-long with the shop foreman for the dealer service center to even be willing to inspect the axle. The original paperwork mid-week indicated that the noise is normal.

It took chatting with @TRAIL TAILOR to connect the dots between the UCA swap and the noise. The noise came up the day after the UCA swap but I'd simply forgotten that correlation. I blame the San Juans and lots of beer within those two weeks.

I brought up the theory that something went amiss during the UCA install with my regular service advisor (who had returned from vacation... could have used him last week) and he worked his magic to validate whether the shop had made a mistake. Sure enough, upon removing the axle they found that it wasn't seated into the diff perfectly AND that some combination of the ball bearings and clip weren't in place which indicated either the hub was dropped forcefully or they were using too much leverage off the hub when doing the suspension work. The axle is hosed and at this point we're not sure if the front diff needs an inspection as well.

Anyway, just wanted to go back to the fact that I'm still impressed with the CV surviving six days of moderate trails in the San Juans despite who knows what was going on in the joints. I don't have photos I can share, yet, but there was a ton of abnormal wear, burrs, etc. around the race and cage due to the bearings not being in the correct position.

The funny thing is that it's going to take like 2 weeks to get the parts so I'm picking the truck up tonight to at least have it to drive around until they're ready for it.
Click to expand...

Not sure if hitting “like” works here, since you are now dealing with an unfortunate bummer. But...I’m glad to hear that you figured it out. Info and clarification is valuable. Seems like the shop failed the install ought to be generous with you in response....but on the other hand, might not wanna give them another chance... :-/

Look forward to hearing final resolution...
 
indycole said:
I brought up the theory that something went amiss during the UCA install with my regular service advisor (who had returned from vacation... could have used him last week) and he worked his magic to validate whether the shop had made a mistake. Sure enough, upon removing the axle they found that it wasn't seated into the diff perfectly AND that some combination of the ball bearings and clip weren't in place which indicated either the hub was dropped forcefully or they were using too much leverage off the hub when doing the suspension work. The axle is hosed and at this point we're not sure if the front diff needs an inspection as well.
Click to expand...

That’s a real drag. I was hoping you were going to look into the CVs. The shop that did my suspension overextended the CV, and let a couple bearings escape. It was immediately clear that something was wrong. It didn’t take long for some catastrophic damage to the bearing race.

I’m glad you didn’t have a failure on your trip. It’s great the dealership is owning the mistake, and making it right.
 
Yeah, I've yet to hear of a 200 series CV failure. Unlike FJs and Tacomas. Those tend to fail more frequently. So much so, I use to carry a spare CV (and tie rods) in my FJ, but I've never felt the need in the 200.
 
TRD Burglar said:
Yeah, I've yet to hear of a 200 series CV failure. Unlike FJs and Tacomas. Those tend to fail more frequently. So much so, I use to carry a spare CV (and tie rods) in my FJ, but I've never felt the need in the 200.
Click to expand...

I've definitely seen a couple 200 CV failures, BUT both were fully loaded, pulling a trailer, and been driven poorly in very difficult conditions. In both of the videos I'm thinking of, I can't imagine any vehicle not snapping an axle with the abuse the drivers put them through.
 
Just a little after work project. 2m x 1250mm Eezi Awn K9 rack.

65FE266C-84DD-4456-8F8D-670D9C50E3AF.webp


DD475766-C685-4740-9628-91C563BE02F3.webp
 
Markuson said:
Nice!
But... That workspace.... !
...that lighting...!
View attachment 2057771
Looks like a a scene from Aliens... or those notorious boiler room scenes...with some scary thing around the next corner...
:eek::hillbilly:

Is that the rack you already had under your tent?
Click to expand...
City life...
 
Markuson said:
Is that the rack you already had under your tent?
Click to expand...

I used Eezi-Awn load bars under the tent along with their mounting rails. I really like the mounting rails and was able to reuse the mounting feet from the load bars so all I needed was the platform. Pretty happy with it. It's not as stealthy/sleek as the Prinsu or Dissent's racks, but I wanted something with modular accessories in addition to having the option to go back to load bars and a tent.

empty80 said:
Is that on the 65mm feet?
Click to expand...

Yep, I'd picked up a set of 40mm feet but there's not enough slack in the feet to confidently get the rack level... they're just too short. I suspect something between the 40mm and 65mm would work if you really wanted to reduce the height by another 1/2 inch. I do know that Eezi Awn has a 50mm-ish foot but it's special order.
 
The truck is back now with a fresh CV. Unfortunately, while the clicking noise is gone I'm still getting a popping noise that deserves attention. Toyota offered to keep looking into it but I elected to take the truck back and investigate further on my own.

Lo and behold, a couple miles after leaving the dealer I got a brand new noise.... ugh.

It definitely sounds like something in the hub area wasn't re-assembled correctly (read further below for a recording). I'm going to check out the dust shield, calipers, and brake pads as soon as I can. Heck, maybe even the brake lines or sensors? This is definitely getting frustrating. We were planning on some camping this weekend but now that's not happening.

Let's review the timeline for the past few months. Prior to Cruise Moab the truck had zero known issues.

May
  • Cruise Moab: Fins, Dome Plateau, ToTW, Chicken Corners
  • Hydrolocked engine plus rod thrown through oil pan
  • Truck lived at Glenwood Springs Toyota for all of May
June
  • Picked up the truck in early June from Glenwood. No issues aside from a wicked pull to the right.
  • Had the undercarriage steam-cleaned to take care of the Moab mud.
  • Alignment at a local specialty shop... results were "okay" but was still getting a pull to the right.
  • Picked up the XV3 trailer and moved a fair amount of weight to the trailer.
  • Still no major issues at this point aside from the pull to the right. No driveline, suspension, or brake noises.
July
  • Snorkel install and pretty standard round of maintenance at Valley Hybrids (front, rear, and t-case service, grease drive shafts, adjust parking brake)
  • 55k service at Toyota including a full alignment, replacement of the UCAs, and investigation into a couple noises. The SPC UCA bushings and boots were worn out which resulted in excess play and the beginning of some noticeable noise. I verified and heard the noise before replacing. I couldn't get replacement SPCs (or rebuild kits) in time so I took the opportunity to try out Jason's UCAs which would be available the next day. Toyota completed the install and the new alignment was really dialed-in.
  • The truck felt great after picking it up. I did notice the whistling/chirping noise a day or two later but wasn't too surprised since they said they couldn't reproduce that.
  • We did the 1500 mile drive to Ouray with no issues. The first time we were on a trail with the center diff locked, though, we heard the clicking/popping noise at mid-turn that prompted the most recent round of work with Toyota upon our return.
August
  • We didn't notice any performance issues with the truck in Ouray despite the clicking/popping noise. I also don't recall hearing the whistling noise while we were in Colorado.
  • The truck has been in and out of the dealer since our return from Ouray. At this point we have a new CV but that part replacement didn't seem to correct whatever the underlying culprit is.
Now, we have 3 noises:

Whistling/Chirping: The whistling/chirping noise that we've had for a while. The dust shields, calipers, and brake pads have been inspected three times but now I guess I'll take another look now that we have the new metallic groan.



Metallic Groaning: This is the brand new one.



Front-End Popping: I'll update with a video of this one in a bit. It sounds quite a bit like a tire rubbing on components but that's definitely not happening because we've been able to hear the noise while observing the tire rotate freely. It's worth noting that the noise is much more pronounced once the truck is warmed up.

Perhaps all of these noises are related. Perhaps none of them are. Perhaps two of them are and the other is completely separate? I'm expecting to find something obvious regarding the new metallic groaning and will focus the debugging on the concerning frontend noise.

Thoughts on potential causes:
  • Botched CV Axle Install => I really, really doubt Toyota messed up an axle swap that was done under warranty. We all thought the CV replacement would completely address the issue and from what I could observe have no concerns here.
  • Wheel Bearings => seems unlikely, but I'm going to inspect what I can as part of looking at the dust shields, brakes, calipers again
  • U-Joints => Again, seems unlikely since they've been inspected a couple times, but I'll take a closer look.
  • Front Diff => The problem may be here. Perhaps the damaged CV damaged the diff? Maybe the diff caused the problem to begin with? I'll see what I learn by removing the front propeller shaft.
  • UCAs / Suspension => It would be pretty strange for the problem to be here as the problem only arises with the transfer case locked. That said, I'm going to do some more careful parking lot testing with the center diff open to see if I can pick up any noises at all.
  • Transfer Case => Let's see what's up with the front diff first.

Anything else worth looking into?
 
Last edited:
Sounds like metallic on metallic that is rotating.
 
indycole said:
The truck is back now with a fresh CV. Unfortunately, while the clicking noise is gone I'm still getting a popping noise that deserves attention. Toyota offered to keep looking into it but I elected to take the truck back and investigate further on my own.

Lo and behold, a couple miles after leaving the dealer I got a brand new noise.... ugh.

It definitely sounds like something in the hub area wasn't re-assembled correctly (read further below for a recording). I'm going to check out the dust shield, calipers, and brake pads as soon as I can. Heck, maybe even the brake lines or sensors? This is definitely getting frustrating. We were planning on some camping this weekend but now that's not happening.

Let's review the timeline for the past few months. Prior to Cruise Moab the truck had zero known issues.

May
  • Cruise Moab: Fins, Dome Plateau, ToTW, Chicken Corners
  • Hydrolocked engine plus rod thrown through oil pan
  • Truck lived at Glenwood Springs Toyota for all of May
June
  • Picked up the truck in early June from Glenwood. No issues aside from a wicked pull to the right.
  • Had the undercarriage steam-cleaned to take care of the Moab mud.
  • Alignment at a local specialty shop... results were "okay" but was still getting a pull to the right.
  • Picked up the XV3 trailer and moved a fair amount of weight to the trailer.
  • Still no major issues at this point aside from the pull to the right. No driveline, suspension, or brake noises.
July
  • Snorkel install and pretty standard round of maintenance at Valley Hybrids (front, rear, and t-case service, grease drive shafts, adjust parking brake)
  • 55k service at Toyota including a full alignment, replacement of the UCAs, and investigation into a couple noises. The SPC UCA bushings and boots were worn out which resulted in excess play and the beginning of some noticeable noise. I verified and heard the noise before replacing. I couldn't get replacement SPCs (or rebuild kits) in time so I took the opportunity to try out Jason's UCAs which would be available the next day. Toyota completed the install and the new alignment was really dialed-in.
  • The truck felt great after picking it up. I did notice the whistling/chirping noise a day or two later but wasn't too surprised since they said they couldn't reproduce that.
  • We did the 1500 mile drive to Ouray with no issues. The first time we were on a trail with the center diff locked, though, we heard the clicking/popping noise at mid-turn that prompted the most recent round of work with Toyota upon our return.
August
  • We didn't notice any performance issues with the truck in Ouray despite the clicking/popping noise. I also don't recall hearing the whistling noise while we were in Colorado.
  • The truck has been in and out of the dealer since our return from Ouray. At this point we have a new CV but that part replacement didn't seem to correct whatever the underlying culprit is.
Now, we have 3 noises:

Whistling/Chirping: The whistling/chirping noise that we've had for a while. The dust shields, calipers, and brake pads have been inspected three times but now I guess I'll take another look now that we have the new metallic groan.



Metallic Groaning: This is the brand new one.



Front-End Popping: I'll update with a video of this one in a bit. It sounds quite a bit like a tire rubbing on components but that's definitely not happening because we've been able to hear the noise while observing the tire rotate freely. It's worth noting that the noise is much more pronounced once the truck is warmed up.

Perhaps all of these noises are related. Perhaps none of them are. Perhaps two of them are and the other is completely separate? I'm expecting to find something obvious regarding the new metallic groaning and will focus the debugging on the concerning frontend noise.

Thoughts on potential causes:
  • Botched CV Axle Install => I really, really doubt Toyota messed up an axle swap that was done under warranty. We all thought the CV replacement would completely address the issue and from what I could observe have no concerns here.
  • Wheel Bearings => seems unlikely, but I'm going to inspect what I can as part of looking at the dust shields, brakes, calipers again
  • U-Joints => Again, seems unlikely since they've been inspected a couple times, but I'll take a closer look.
  • Front Diff => The problem may be here. Perhaps the damaged CV damaged the diff? Maybe the diff caused the problem to begin with? I'll see what I learn by removing the front propeller shaft.
  • UCAs / Suspension => It would be pretty strange for the problem to be here as the problem only arises with the transfer case locked. That said, I'm going to do some more careful parking lot testing with the center diff open to see if I can pick up any noises at all.
  • Transfer Case => Let's see what's up with the front diff first.

Anything else worth looking into?
Click to expand...

Some days you just have to say
WTF did I get out of bed?
 
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